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-   -   Why Does Atheism Offend? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=680592)

  • Jul 9, 2012, 07:03 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Why Does Atheism Offend?
    Hi folks, this is more of a topic than a direct question;

    However I would like to understand why atheism in general offends people.

    I don't believe in God as there is no evidence to suggest there is, atop of the fact that there are much better ways to explain the world nowadays which does not require a God.

    However, I am still a kind and generous person when I can be. I do believe that I have a good moral compass as do most people too. Furthermore; I find that even though most of us are moral people, it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse.
    So I simply ask; why can atheism, which is simply the will to question unjustifiable and unverifiable claims be considered offensive to those who believe?

    Thanks

    Ryan.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:13 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    Hi folks, this is more of a topic than a direct question;

    However I would like to understand why atheism in general offends people.

    I don't believe in God as there is no evidence to suggest there is, atop of the fact that there are much better ways to explain the world nowadays which does not require a God.

    However, I am still a kind and generous person when I can be. I do believe that I have a good moral compass as do most people too. Furthermore; I find that even though most of us are moral people, it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse.
    So I simply ask; why can atheism, which is simply the will to question unjustifiable and unverifiable claims be considered offensive to those who believe?

    Thanks

    Ryan.



    My specific "take" on this is that I would never make a blanket statement like this about atheists if our positions were reversed - "it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse."

    Otherwise I stay off the religion boards.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:20 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    My specific "take" on this is that I would never make a blanket statement like this about athiests if our positions were reversed - "it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse."

    .

    Well I'm sorry, but organised religion does condone those things, I can find the passages if you like (But surely you would know if you had read the bible/Q'uran yourself). There has never been a man to kill in the name of atheism, perhaps anti-theism but never atheism.

    My question is how can it offend people when I express my disbelief for God, yet it is all right for a religious man/lady to come to my door and attempt to convince me that I am wrong.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:20 AM
    ScottGem
    The answer here is that there are religious zealots who feel they have to convert everyone to their way of thinking. There are other people so deeply into their religion that for anyone to challenge their belief in their religion is an affront to them. Such people will take offense when their beliefs are challenged.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:28 AM
    Wondergirl
    You are tarring all Christians with the same brush. I am a life-long Christian and have no problem with atheists. In fact, I read books by famous ones to learn how they think and why--and then reexamine my own beliefs. And I am not the only Christian who does this.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:31 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    You are tarring all Christians with the same brush. I am a life-long Christian and have no problem with atheists. In fact, I read books by famous ones to learn how they think and why--and then reexamine my own beliefs. And I am not the only Christian who does this.

    Well actually I am talking to the religious people in general, and although I appreciate what you've said, I would still like to know what makes the people who do get offended tick.

    Also in addition, it has to be said. If you read science books, and books on atheism then I would be very interested in your belief system, as I used to be a believer when I was young, then took Philosophy and Ethics at A level and I have been atheist since then, once I read more about science and atheism it seemed a no brainer to me.

    No offense intended, Just expressing my opinion.

    Thanks
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:34 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    Well i'm sorry, but organised religion does condone those things, I can find the passages if you like (But surely you would know if you had read the bible/Q'uran yourself). There has never been a man to kill in the name of atheism, perhaps anti-theism but never atheism.

    My question is how can it offend people when i express my disbelief for God, yet it is all right for a religious man/lady to come to my door and attempt to convince me that I am wrong.


    You don't have to be an atheist to NOT want people preaching at you at your door, on the street, on AMHD.

    As far as there has never been a murder by an atheist I haven't researched and so I don't know - I'm not aware that's a question that is asked at the murder scene but, again, I don't know.

    I don't know that people are offended by other people's religious beliefs. I can only address myself, and I'm not. What does offend me is people who preach, and that includes Christians, Jews and everyone else. If I want to hear what they have to say, I'll ask them. Same with atheists.

    I have a relative who is a fanatical born again Christian. If I say it's raining, she quotes the Bible. That's offensive.

    There are zealots everywhere in the name of just about anything.

    You seem to have a need to defend atheists - why?
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:36 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Too late for me to edit my answer BUT I notice you spend a lot of time on the "Islam" boards.

    Why?
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:38 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    Also in addition, it has to be said. If you read science books, and books on atheism then I would be very interested in your belief system

    My belief is that God is so much bigger than humans can ever imagine. They tend to put Him in a small corral and build a high fence around Him. And out of fear of what they think He will do to them if they are "incorrect" in their beliefs, they also erect a high fence around themselves.

    FEAR is the operative word.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:38 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    You don't have to be an atheist to NOT want people preaching at you at your door, on the street, on AMHD.

    As far as there has never been a murder by an atheist I haven't researched and so I don't know - I'm not aware that's a question that is asked at the murder scene but, again, I don't know.

    I don't know that people are offended by other people's religious beliefs. I can only address myself, and I'm not. What does offend me is people who preach, and that includes Christians, Jews and everyone else. If I want to hear what they have to say, I'll ask them. Same with atheists.

    I have a relative who is a fanatical born again Christian. If I say it's raining, she quotes the Bible. That's offensive.

    There are zealots everywhere in the name of just about anything.

    You seem to have a need to defend atheists - why?

    I agree with pretty much everything you've said, preaching is quite annoying and that is partly why I've asked this question in perticular, as I was expressing my disbelief in all things supernatural, including God and I was told by my manager to keep a lid on it.
    I am in no-way defending atheism, the evidence (or lack of evidence on the religious part) Is more than enough to defend my view-point.
    This is all about how atheists tend to be ushered around, and people try to silence us.

    Ryan.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:44 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    My belief is that God is so much bigger than humans can ever imagine. .

    If that is true, then how can you even contemplate his existence, and furthermore; how can you possibly have the knowledge to believe in such a thing?

    Oh also, FEAR is the operative word. The fear of there being no after-life causes people to believe in irrational beings.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:44 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    in perticular, as I was expressing my disbelief in all things supernatural, including God and I was told by my manager to keep a lid on it.

    Hello Ryan:

    You sound like you were trying to convert people... That turns people off. Maybe it's YOU that's offensive, and not atheism.

    excon
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:45 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    If that is true, then how can you even contemplate his existence, and furthermore; how can you possibly have the knowledge to believe in such a thing?

    I do my best with His help. :)
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:46 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello Ryan:

    You sound like you were trying to convert people... That turns people off. Maybe it's YOU that's offensive, and not atheism.

    excon

    Well no,
    1) You don't convert to atheism
    2) I was as calm as a cucumber, and used the words "Each to their own, this is just my opinion"
    3) They tried to convert me.

    So, no.

    Thanks.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:48 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I do my best with His help. :)

    How does he help you, what properties does this help have?

    Is it mental? If it is then the odds are you are helping yourself.

    Ryan.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:49 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    I was told by my manager to keep a lid on it.

    The work site is no place for religious discussions.

    Years ago, our atheist teen library page (book shelver) challenged me to prove there is a God. I met and talked with him outside the library during lunch and break times. We got the library homeless guy (former altar boy) involved. It was one of the best times of my life!
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:51 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    How does he help you, what properties does this help have?

    Is it mental? If it is then the odds are you are helping yourself.

    Ryan.

    He and I have constant, ongoing conversations.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:51 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    You don't convert to atheism..

    Hello again, R:

    It's semantics.. In fact, it's your justification to continue to tell people that they're WRONG... That offends people.

    excon
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:53 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The work site is no place for religious discussions.

    Well, they instigated the convosation... I was asked what I believed.

    And furthermore, How does he communicate... is it a voice in your head?

    Ryan
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:55 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    And furthermore, How does he communicate...is it a voice in your head?

    Hahahahahahaha!!
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:55 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, R:

    In fact, it's your justification to continue to tell people that they're WRONG...

    excon

    Well according to mordern science, they are. You wouldn't go shouting at a man for saying water boils at 100 degrees would you? Yet when I say there is no verifiable, or empirical data for any type of God or supernatural phenemena, it becomes a problem.

    Ryan
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:56 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    And furthermore, How does he communicate...is it a voice in your head?

    Hello again, Ryan:

    You're offending my friend, Carol, now.

    There IS a way to discuss atheism WITHOUT being confrontational and offensive... You don't know HOW to do that. I'd learn, if I was you.

    excon
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:56 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

    I thought that after you said you had on-going convosations, But I am not trying to offend here :)
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:57 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Ryan:

    You're offending my friend, Carol, now.


    excon

    I am sorry what?. She offends my intelligence by stating that she is having a convosation with something she herself says we can't comprehend... I ask her a legitimate question whether it's a voice and it is offensive?. So what does he telephone her?

    It was a genuine question to see how she communicates.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:58 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    Yet when I say there is no verifiable, or empirical data for any type of God or supernatural phenemena, it becomes a problem.

    Not a problem at all! There IS no empirical evidence for God. It's all based on faith.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 08:59 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    I thought that after you said you had on-going convosations, But I am not trying to offend here :)

    Of course you aren't. ;)
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:01 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    It was a genuine question to see how she communicates.

    Hello again, Ryan:

    It's NOT a genuine question.. It's CONFRONTATIONAL. How is it that you don't understand what's going on right under your feet? Are you a kid?

    excon
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:02 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Ok well, looks like this is just going to get worse. I am going home now (I am at work).

    I will pop back tomorrow when we've all calmed down.

    Toodles.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:02 AM
    Wondergirl
    Only one of us is not calm.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:03 AM
    Ryantheatheist
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Ryan:

    It's NOT a genuine question.. Are you a kid?

    excon

    I am sorry, but I am not the one claiming I can talk to a man in the sky... re-evaluate your position.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:05 AM
    excon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    I am sorry, but I am not the one claiming I can talk to a man in the sky...re-evaluate your position.

    Hello again, R:

    I don't need to re-evaluate MY position. I'm an atheist. I'm just not an a$$hole about it.

    excon
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:07 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    I am sorry, but I am not the one claiming I can talk to a man in the sky...re-evaluate your position.

    He's not in the sky.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:16 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Ryan, you're offensive - at the workplace and on AMHD.

    I was truly nice and explained my position. Carol disagreed and YOU became unpleasant.

    Your "does He communicate by voices in your head comment" is demeaning to Wondergirl and indicates you are either very ignorant, very uneducated or very rude.

    Or all three.

    I find it amazing that the very person who finds people who preach is preaching.

    Just out of curiosity - why do you have such a need to express your views on atheism? To "convert" us - or "de-convert" else or whatever else is involved.

    I have a fair amount of experience with very sick people and also the legal system - there are no atheists in prison or on their death beds. I've yet to see one example to the contrary.

    I have no idea what that means but thought I'd throw it into the mix.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:20 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Ryan:

    It's NOT a genuine question.. It's CONFRONTATIONAL. How is it that you don't understand what's going on right under your feet? Are you a kid?

    excon


    Yes, he's 20, I'll guess a server, and his "two peas in a pod" 27-year old girlfriend just kicked him out - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relati...ce-678759.html. He was forced to move back in with Mom and Dad.

    I'm working on what qualifies a professed atheist to spend large chunks of time on the Islam Board. Note that "Ryan" didn't answer.

    I also note to my vast amusement that Wondergirl (sorry to pick on you) doesn't find it necessary to use the username "WondergirlChristian." Ryan finds the need to "RyanAtheist."

    I am changing mine to Judykayteelegalstuff.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:33 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    Ok well, looks like this is just going to get worse. I am going home now (I am at work).

    I will pop back tomorrow when we've all calmed down.

    Toodles.

    As an atheist myself you come off as antireligious.

    It's said better here: Atheism: An Introduction to Atheism
    Quote:

    "If atheism is not religious, surely it's antireligious?"

    It is an unfortunate human tendency to label everyone as either "for" or "against," "friend" or "enemy." The truth is not so clear-cut.

    Atheism is the position that runs logically counter to theism; in that sense, it can be said to be "antireligion." However, when religious believers speak of atheists being "antireligious" they usually mean that the atheists have some sort of antipathy or hatred towards theists.

    This categorization of atheists as hostile towards religion is quite unfair. Atheist attitudes towards theists in fact cover a broad spectrum.

    Most atheists take a "live and let live" attitude. Unless questioned, they will not usually mention their atheism, except perhaps to close friends. Of course, this may be in part because atheism is not "socially acceptable" in many countries.

    A few atheists are quite antireligious, and may even try to "convert" others when possible. Historically, such antireligious atheists have made little impact on society outside the Eastern Bloc countries.
    ...
    Some atheists are quite vocal about their beliefs, but only where they see religion encroaching on matters which are not its business--for example, the government of the USA. Such individuals are usually concerned that church and state should remain separate.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:39 AM
    ScottGem
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ryantheatheist View Post
    I am sorry what?...She offends my intelligence by stating that she is having a convosation with something she herself says we can't comprehend...I ask her a legitimate question whether it's a voice and it is offensive?...So what does he telephone her?

    You started this off with a reasonable question. I answered that question, but now you are trying to impose your beliefs on others which is what you started complaining about.

    This is a point I have made several times. I agree that there is no proof that God exists, but there is also no proof that he doesn't. Therefore it is a matter of faith and personal beliefs. You are getting offended because WG believes, why? Isn't that the same question you asked? So maybe you can answer your own question.

    But I detest proselytizers and that seems to be where you are headed.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 09:52 AM
    JudyKayTee
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    As an atheist myself you come off as antireligious.

    It's said better here: Atheism: An Introduction to Atheism


    Perhaps wisdom comes with age -
  • Jul 9, 2012, 10:00 AM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    Perhaps wisdom comes with age -

    My atheist library page friend was the same age when he confronted me. It must be a developmental thing.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 10:02 AM
    NeedKarma
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JudyKayTee View Post
    Perhaps wisdom comes with age -

    That might be it. In the same vein that peer pressure has absolutely no effect on me.
  • Jul 9, 2012, 10:05 AM
    Wondergirl
    Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Jain, Hindu, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief -- it's how we behave toward each other.

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