Everbody is a sinner or has onced sinned even with different denominations?
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Everbody is a sinner or has onced sinned even with different denominations?
What do "different denominations" have to do with sin?
Yep and is there anything more to your statement.
Well, I believe
We are all sinners,
The minister (?) refused to baptise my little brother because my parents had not been to church in several years. Because of this they were sinners and were given the choice of either not baptising him or attending church 6 weeks in a row.
They are (were) Anglican.
Strange shazamataz, must have beeen the local pastor, most of the Anglican's I know would baptise anyone that would walk in off the street.
Was it more of what is called a "high" church, very formal.
I'm not sure to be honest, it was the same church I was baptised at and they were never heavy church goers back then either (25 years ago).
I thought it was awfully strange as well, especially the requirement of just 6 sundays and all is well.
Shaz,Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
Unbelievable and unbiblical. I'm shaking my head. No wonder people don't want anything to do with Church or the Bible. They totally and completely misrepresent God. The ONLY prerequisite for being baptized according to the Bible is believing Jesus is Lord and he died for our sins and rose again. That is IT! Who can to judge someone's heart? And what in the world does NOT going to church have to do with being in sin or UNGodly? And worse yet, what does a parents walk have to do with their child? OH MY WORD... this makes my blood boil.
Ministers, Pastors and anyone who gets up and preaches the Word can and should be challenged. If they can't go straight to the Bible and give biblical reasons for their decisions ( such as making your parents attend church for 6 weeks in a row) then I would find another church. They are clearly in error. It's a rule they have made up and just like the pharisee's of Jesus day... they misrepresent and teach a God that isn't the God of the Bible. We are under GRACE. That means... Unmerited, unearned, undeserved favor.. and this minister would teach one had to even earn BAPTISM? What UTTER POPPYCOCK!
You know I believe if Christians really represented Christ they way he wants us to... People would be running to HIM. Who doesn't want unconditional love, who doesn't want acceptance no matter what a person has done? Who doesn't want to be completely righteous apart from our behavior? That is what Jesus Christ's offers to us freely. Anyone that asks to be baptized should be!! Sorry for my rant, but as you can tell I have very strong feelings about some of our so called Pastors and ministers today.
How can a 6 month old baby fit these pre-requisites? It's impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
NK
I didn't see where the child was 6 months old. How did I miss that? But we can still go to the Bible and find where Paul baptized families. It doesn't state how old the children were. How about I explain it like this... IF there is a pre-requisite it can be found in acts when Philip encounters the Ethiopian Eunuch. He was baptized the minute he believed. Baptism is an outward expression of an inward belief. If parents want to baptize their child there is no harm in it. They are simply dedicating that child to what they believe. I personally would want to be baptized again if I didn't understand it the first time. But in any event... the minister was clearly wrong. He had no biblical basis for insisting the parents attend church for 6 weeks. PERIOD
I was baptized at 3 weeks of age (as are many babies--often one of the first forays out into the world).Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Baptism isn't saying the baby has faith yet, but that God (His Holy Spirit) will work faith in that child's heart. The sponsors or godparents promise to help make that happen with their spiritual support and prayers. The parents also promise to bring up the child in the knowledge of the Lord.
Some churches have a second baptism once the child is older or even has become an adult, and is aware of what he's saying. Most mainline Christian churches don't rebaptize, but do have what is called Confirmation when the child is around 12 or 13--that is, has a special ceremony to verify that the child believes and asks him to continue in his pursuit of spiritual knowledge.
My dad was a minister and NEVER put stipulations or turned down anyone who asked to be baptized or asked if their baby or child could be baptized. (Any Christian can baptize a baby, or anyone else, by the way. It doesn't have to be done by a minister or church official.)
I guess I'm just not into indoctrinating my kids into something they have no choice in. If they want to choose a religion later that's fine.
But how will they know what to choose? Will you give them background on all religions and visit many churches/synagogues/mosques so they can later choose wisely?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
They can do their own research. I see no requirement for religion, one can live their life just fine without it.
I'm not saying it's a requirement, but it's like having no rules in your house, anything goes, so they have no limits during their first four years--and then you send them off to school. And then the fat hits the fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I would want to open my children's minds to all the religious (and non-religious) opportunities in the word, teach them about those opportunities in person at houses of worship and through library books (:)), talk with members of various groups, with clergy and people who know about the spiritual aspects of the group. Then my children will have a solid base on which to make a decision when they are older.
And that is what you teach your children and most likely what they will believe. You teach that to them by not teaching them a faith.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Unless you go to a difference type of church with them every week starting at a few years old. If you don't teach them any, they will have none. Since 5 and 6 year olds can't get in a car and drive to a nearby church by theirself
That's absolutely wrong. My kids have been raised with proper morals and ethics. It almost seems as if you believe that it's not possible to do so without religion, if that's the case then there is nothing I can say to make you believe otherwise since you are entrenched in your beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
My kids are awesome, never in trouble, offer to volunteer at school to help others, involved in various activities with and without us; I couldn't ask for better kids. All without a 2000 year old holy book to use as a guide. I guess I'm just special... oh wait, I'm not, there are plenty of people like me in this world. :-)
I'm OK with everything you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Just want to tell you that you're not alone at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
That's how we are here as well.
I want my kids to make their own choice, and they have all the information they need to make that choice.
You've totally misunderstood me! (I'm on your side!! ) My point was that you (generic you) can't start with nothing and then suddenly let kids loose and expect them to find or have something. It's that way with rules or with religion (or absence of it).Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
That is EXACTLY what I was trying to say -- give your kids the information they need in order to make a choice someday. Tell them about Buddhism and read books about it and go to a temple. Do the same for LDS and Catholicism and Christian Science and Hinduism and also be sure to talk about agnosticism and atheism. Be sure your kids know about creationism and what is taught as well as evolution. The smarter the child is and the fuller his knowledge, the better the choice he will make for himself someday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
Do you think all christians do this then select christianity for their children?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Absolutely not! (unfortunately) The world would be a better place if they did open their minds and realize they aren't the only ones who have "truth."Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
So we agree I guess. I just am starting from a different place than you, which is the default position: atheism.
Would you be okay if one of your kids becomes a Christian later?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Sure. As long as they don't be become fanatical about anything.
Then what would you do, if they did?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Don't know, would cross that bridge if/when I get there. So far what I'm doing is going well, no use if thinking about the possible outcomes. I deal with stuff at it occurs.
What would you do is your children became fanatical muslims?
I'd continue to love them but move to an undisclosed location.
Lol!
Probably in Canada. Near you.
LOL!! This one goes right into the AMHD Hall of Fame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And you'd be very welcome in my quiet community. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
WG,Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6. I didn't say it, Jesus did. He never once said to open up your minds and experience other ways. He said he WAS IT. How do you claim Christianity if you don't even believe what Jesus clearly stated. One thing about Jesus, he wasn't wishy washy. He said some radical stuff that made some people uncomfortable.
And incidentally Christianity is ALWAYS a choice. I can't make my kids believe it. But I believe it is the truth and I presented it as such to them. Call me closed minded but you will have to call the Lord Jesus closed minded too. Just saying.
And I'm just sayin' that even though I present Christianity as my truth, I will still expose my kids (and did) to other religions and ways of thinking. My kids are fully informed. We talked about the in and outs, the upsides and the downsides of choices.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I believe in arming oneself with as much information as one can, so I armed my kids with all sorts of information, but was not going to force them to be Christian. It would be their choice, but they would also know what else is out there.
I believe Jesus would approve of my approach.
WG,
As far as arming oneself with as much info, I'm all for it. My children can defend their faith and are very much aware of what other relgions believe and teach. But since Jesus didn't say I am A truth and A way... I gave my kids THE truth. The way Jesus presented it.
For the life of me I can't imagine what "upside" you presented for other religions IF you really believe Jesus is the only way. Not rying to be rude just really baffled.
Anyway, we agree at least on this point it is a choice and you can't force anyone to be a Christian. I would love and adore my Kids no matter what they chose to believe. But I'd pray like crazy for them if they rejected Jesus.
And I didn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Upsides: Most of them have the Golden Rule. The LDS Church is strong on families and morals. The Buddhists offer themes of morality, justice, and love, even life after death. And so on.Quote:
For the life of me I can't imagine what "upside" you presented for other religions IF you really believe Jesus is the only way. Not rying to be rude just really baffled.
So basically you'd do nothing since praying pretty much equates to doing nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2242/b...jpg?1203739862 Yup, that's all you really need, it can cover all the bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
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