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Hello Everyone,
We all work hard tocare for our family needs, and yet many suffer the pain of poverty. Do you personally think there will ever come a time when the scripture above will be a reality? Please explain your answer.Quote:
Psalm 9:18 For not always will the poor one be forgotten, Nor will the hope of the meek ones ever perish.
Peace,
Hope12
1. Yes, there will always be "poor" people amongst us.
2. They are not "forgotten" and those that are "poor" can and will always have "hope".
Now the reality:
1. What does the Psalmist mean by "poor"? Poor in Spirit? Poor in finances? Poor in Hope?.
2. What does the Psalmist mean by "forgotten"?
Does it mean "the world" will not forget you? Does it mean that "there is not a single person who will forget you"?
Herein lies the "problem" with Psalms, Proverbs and some other Scripture passages that may or may not have been meant to be taken literally.
And even if they were meant to be taken literally, would that mean that they were meant to be taken literally by every person in every age in every country?
This reminds me of the many passages exhorting us to honor our parents:
Exodus 20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long"
Some who do not honor their parents live very long.
Proverbs 20:20 "If one curses his father or his mother, his lamp will be put out in utter darkness"
I don't have a lamp. There is clearly some "figurative" speech here, but what does it mean to me? Heck, I don't have a lamp.
The key to scripture is recognizing first that it was written in a specific time and place primarily to a specific group of people.
After that, there is still some debate about how to best live our lives according to Scripture.
Am I off base?
Hello RickJ,
Your are correct the scripture in Proverbs 20:20 is speaking figuratively, the lamp spoken of is the Persons life.. These ones will have no future.
Notice what Proverbs 24:20, Says:
Quote:
For there will prove to be no future for anyone bad; the very lamp of wicked people will be extinguished.
. They are not "forgotten" and those that are "poor" can and will always have "hope".
Psalm 9:17 . . .Even all the nations forgetting God. 18 For not always will the poor one be forgotten, Nor will the hope of the meek ones ever perish.Quote:
Now the reality:
1. What does the Psalmist mean by "poor"? Poor in Spirit? Poor in finances? Poor in Hope?.
2. What does the Psalmist mean by "forgotten"?
Does it mean "the world" will not forget you? Does it mean that "there is not a single person who will forget you"?
Herein lies the "problem" with Psalms, Proverbs and some other Scripture passages that may or may not have been meant to be taken literally.
Notice verse 17 gives the answer, te nations will forget God, but the Psalmist goes on to say then the poor will not be forgotten by God. In verse 17 he is speaking nabot God. Then it speaks of meek ones and how their hope will not perish. The majority of poor persons are poor due to the oppression of the rich. Most poor persons are humble and in God's word they will not be forgotten. Poor in material goods, money, food, housing, etc, but not poor spiritually because they have not forgotten their maker.
Peace,
Hope12
Hope Jesus told us the poor are always with us. God has provided for believers and it is up to us to appropriate the blessing. In saying that the poor are not forgotten since there are many charities giving the poor hope. So The Scripture is fulfilled even in our day
People want to forget about the poor because it makes them feel less resposible for how un balanced the world is. Starving children in africa balanced on some one who lives in the US who was born in to a rich family.
I think that the idear of relgion is good, most relgios scrpts/books have a good story about being good. The message is similar in most relgions, do good to others etc.
But I think you need to take relgion as more as a philosophy and not gospol.
Un forntaly we do live in a world of un balced and mis justices and looking back in history it all seems the same. Is this going to be the case for future or is it just a human condition.
Hi dronit
I think many people are unable to relate to the circumstance of the poor because the word covers such a wide area. A person who is poor in one country would be considered rich in another. This is why they have tried to define it as as an income of less than $US2 a day but even that is still relative to the circumstance within a country. In my country that wouldn't buy a loaf of bread yet in Pakistan such an amount is much more substantial.
We have to get to grips with what "religion" requires. In one religion it might be to give alms, a percentage of your income, in another it means real help even sacrificial giving. We see the contrast in the religious response. In the countries where one religion is dominant we see great wealth and destitution. In another and a different religion we see institutions set up, hospitals, help agencies and government social responsibility programs. I personally believe religion is not what God requires. He wants us to look after each other, to be generous, caring. Philosophy is bankrupt, religion is bankrupt our heart attitude is what matters
What's wrong with being poor? Some of the happiest people I've known throughout my life were poor. Some of the most miserable people I've known had sufficient or more than sufficient money.
Very often poor people, especially children, don't realize they are poor. Some people seek poverty. Our library homeless man was poor but was very content and uncomplaining, even cheerful.
There is a diferance with being poor in a rich sociaty and living in a 3rd world contrey. Obviously wealth is subjective.
You can be happy being poor, like the homeless person in 'wondergirls libary' but he has the benifts of things like a library and kitchen soups. Some contrey can't offer any one that kind of thing at all. This is the point I was making about the world being un balanced you need to look further then where you live.
All the poor in Third World countries are unhappy?
I agree with RickJ in wondering what that Bible verse means by "poor."
Yes, the poor in America for example, can get a free cell phone, if you get public assistance, you can get a free cell phone with about 300 min on it, I know many homeless men who have web pages.
Part of our issue in the US is that people and families have given away their responsibility to care for their own family and neighbors to the government, they want or expect the government to house, feed and care for the poor.
What are you on about? Can you not make the distinction between 'poor in the US' and 'poor in africa'
And yes if you do live in a rich contrey thrn it is not only up to the government but also sociaty as a whole to help those who are less well off. Goverments give aid to 3rd world contrey but clearly not anuf. If the US government spent less on there milatry budget
Components Funding Change, 2009 to 2010
Operations and maintenance $283.3 billion +4.2%
Military Personnel $154.2 billion +5.0%
Procurement $140.1 billion −1.8%
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.1 billion +1.3%
Military Construction $23.9 billion +19.0%
Family Housing $3.1 billion −20.2%
Total Spending $685.1 billion +3.0%
Does that figure not sicken you when you compare it to the health care budget, ow sorry I forgot you don't get free health care in the US but you should.
I'm obviosly not stateing that any one who lives in a 3rd world contrey are unn happy, but they do not get any benefits at all. I think you are missing my point really. And I have already stated that 'wealth' is subjective, so you should worrie less about the defontion of the word in the bible and actually look at what is happening in the world. Please read my coment on the milatry spending for example.
Components Funding Change, 2009 to 2010
Operations and maintenance $283.3 billion +4.2%
Military Personnel $154.2 billion +5.0%
Procurement $140.1 billion −1.8%
Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation $79.1 billion +1.3%
Military Construction $23.9 billion +19.0%
Family Housing $3.1 billion −20.2%
Total Spending $685.1 billion +3.0%
Can you not make the distiction between 'poor in the US' and 'poor in africa'
Have you ever seen how the poor live in the U.S. Have you vacationed in Appalachia? No. You ought to visit. I grew up there. Have you ever visited in inner city areas in Chicago? No? I student taught there. How about an American Indian reservation. No? You ought to visit. A friend of mine was born in one and grew up there. Africa has nothing over the U.S. when it comes to poverty.
I have visited both contreys. How can you say that 'Africa has nothing over the U.S. when it comes to poverty.' Is that a joke. Or are you really just that ignerat? And why get so defensive and pantronising. Did you not read how much your contrey spends on the milatry, did the figure not sicken you, or do you have no heart... or just no brain.
Ow and yes places in america such as 'the projects' can easly be compared to a 3rd world contry, but that's because the US has no free health care or a proper benefit system, which is really wrong considering how rich the contry is. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Its ignerance and ofencive what you have said.
I have visited both contreys. How can you say that 'Africa has nothing over the U.S. when it comes to poverty.' Is that a joke. Or are you really just that ignerat? And why get so defensive and pantronising. Did you not read how much your contrey spends on the milatry, did the figure not sicken you, or do you have no heart... or just no brain.
dronit Jun 29, 2011 04:43 am ow and yes places in america such as 'the projects' can easly be compared to a 3rd world contry, but that's because the US has no free health care or a proper benefit system, which is really wrong considering how rich the contry is. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Its ignerance and ofencive what you have said
Can some one else coment please?
What country do you live in?
You obviously have no idea what I was talking about.
I work for the UN 'United nations' so I don't have a perminant base.
Yes I do no what your talking about, just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I haven't understand you.
Where I was born is really irelervant as we are talking about a gloabal problem.
I'm guessing you don't know about Appalachia or Pine Ridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by dronit
So your main problem is with U.S. spending.
And you equate the word "poor" in that Bible passage as meaning financial poverty.
Appalachia is a term used to describe a cultural region in the eastern United States that stretches from the Southern Tier of New York state to northern Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia.[1] While the Appalachian Mountains stretch from Belle Isle in Canada to Cheaha Mountain in the U.S. state of Alabama, the cultural region of Appalachia typically refers only to the central and southern portions of the range. As of 2005, the region was home to approximately 23 million people.[2]
Since its recognition as a distinctive region in the late 19th century, Appalachia has been a source of enduring myths and distortions regarding the isolation, temperament, and behavior of its inhabitants. Early 20th-century writers focused on sensationalistic aspects of the region's culture, such as moonshining and clan feuding, and often portrayed the region's inhabitants as uneducated and prone to impulsive acts of violence. Sociological studies in the 1960s and 1970s helped to deconstruct these stereotypes, although popular media continued to perpetuate the image of Appalachia as a culturally backward region into the 21st century.
So what point are you trying to make wondergirl, pleae inliten me?
You Google well.Quote:
Originally Posted by dronit
What does the word "poor" mean in that Bible passage? Poor financially or poor in a different way?
One can live in abject poverty but be wealthy in other ways.
Yes I did just Google it and read what the term was.
But you have just shown your contridiction as you were using this to make a point. It states that the socilogical study discredited the view of the area as a stero type. So the whole '3rd world contry' not being as poor as 'american projects' is still a fars.
Yes I think the US spending is sickening (milatry budget for example) and the term being poor is financial.
Of course you can be poor in spirit (your mood, or deprest) But that still does not trackle the problem of starvation, while the world produces food just be thrown away. Food wasage and distribution of food is the main problem.
Not your homelss friend in wondergirls library who is happy.
Ow if he's happy then clearly world hunger isn't a prblem at all... der
Yes I did just Google it and read what the term was.
But you have just shown your contridiction as you were using this to make a point. It states that the socilogical study discredited the view of the area as a stero type. So the whole '3rd world contry' not being as poor as 'american projects' is still a fars.
Yes I think the US spending is sickening (milatry budget for example) and the term being poor is financial.
Of course you can be poor in spirit (your mood, or deprest) But that still does not trackle the problem of starvation, while the world produces food just be thrown away. Food wasage and distribution of food is the main problem.
Not your homelss friend in wondergirls library who is happy.
Ow if he's happy then clearly world hunger isn't a prblem at all... der
And you believe what you read in Wikipedia? Have you been to
Appalachia or Pine Ridge?
And the homeless man didn't go to soup kitchens for food.
I'm trying to figure out what your native language is, but I'm not quite there yet. Ah, well. It's time to roll around in my roomful of money.
Logging, Coal mining, Manufacturing all industrys in appalachia. And yes I believe what I read on wika pedia as it was infomative. You can read about the social study yourself.
Do you think world hunger isn't a problem?
If the homeless man doen't eat in the soup kitchen where does he eat, out of bins or from hand outs.
The point is he is homeless and does have the option of eating and using the library. I'd be happy to.
But some people don't have that option.
So yes roll about in your room full of money... Gues that what makes it easyer not to see world hunger as aproblem.
And why are you so bothered what my native routes are, it shouldn't make a diferace unless you are racist.
Logging, Coal mining, Manufacturing all industrys in appalachia. And yes I believe what I read on wika pedia as it was infomative. You can read about the social study yourself.
Do you think world hunger isn't a problem?
If the homeless man doen't eat in the soup kitchen where does he eat, out of bins or from hand outs.
The point is he is homeless and does have the option of eating and using the library. I'd be happy to.
But some people don't have that option.
So yes roll about in your room full of money... Gues that what makes it easyer not to see world hunger as aproblem.
And why are you so bothered what my native routes are, it shouldn't make a diferace unless you are racist.
Hey I thought this Site didn't allow you to post duplicates
This site hiccups like any other website.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
And why are you so bothered what my native routes are, it shouldn't make a diferace unless you are racist.
I'm a language enthusiast and grammar expert, so was trying to figure out from your way of spelling English words and your phrasing what your native language and country of origin are.
Yes I read your profile you stae that yo are an expert at every thing. Der be der
Sorry didn't know if I wrote in the coments it went straight to the person privately or if it was posted on the forum. Will avoide doing that again.
You seem more bothered about atacking me then answering any of the points I have made.
Don't worry protecting your infated ego is obivously more inportant. I can tell by your usase of langage that you are getting quite anoied. Don't have to be an expert to figure that one out. So either answer some of my points, or carry on your verbal atack. I only find it amusing.
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