I'm sorry but there is a certain member on here who is scaring the CRAP out of me. I've mentioned it before in another thread, but I'm starting my own to get the point across directly.

How in the world does anyone know that the world is going to end in May 2011?? Furthermore, if it is indeed going to end then, how do you know YOU are going to be accepted by God?? I am worried to death every single time I read something that you write (you know who you are, if you ask, I will confirm)! Please explain what you base your theory on. The way I was always taught, no one knows/will know when the end is near, where do you and your people get the facts? What do you base it on? Is it really a mathematical logic? I have more to say, but I'm going to end it here as I am curious as to what others to have to say-I will build off that.

Rest assured, no one knows when the world will end.

(Actually, according to Harold Camping, the Rapture and the start of Judgment Day will be May 21, 2011, followed by the end of the world on October 21, 2011.) Camping, had also predicted the end of the world in 1994. Guess what didn't happen?! Mr. Camping claims he's discovered a mathematical formula or some such. Psssst, just between you and me, there IS no such thing.

Here's another example of Camping's reasoning:

In John 21:1-14, the disciples are about 200 cubits out from the shore on the Sea of Galilee. Harold Camping has taken that figure of 200 cubits and decided that it actually means 2000 years between the first and second coming of Christ. Not only has Harold Camping inserted his own meaning into a minor detail in the Bible, he has changed the number from 200 to 2000 and the units from cubits to years. (from CULTWATCH - Harold Camping)

Does that tell you Camping's reasoning is a bit suspect?

And if it were true, every Catholic and Protestant church would be calculating like mad and coming up with the same results. The front page of newspapers would be filled with articles. After all, how many times does the world really come to an end?

I don't have a lot to say about it because I think it's rubbish. Utter rubbish.

BUT, sometimes when the world starts scaring the crud out of me, I listen to See you in the light by Michael Franti and Spearhead.

If the end of the world is this year, well then I hope I see you all on the other side!

I want to believe that it is rubbish, I mean I was a lot younger and remembering the world was going to end once we hit Year 2000, but we seem to be doing fine today... I'm not trying to start shiz with anyone, but I'm just trying to collect the facts. I mean these people leave their families, belongings, jobs, all sorts of "crazy" (crazy in my opinion) things behind and go travel in a van or on a bus preaching that the world is going to end in two months. It's a scary thought because there are so many innocent people out there (and I am NOT talking about myself) who haven't had the chance to learn about the word of God and all that, do you think THEY would be accepted by God if indeed this date is to be true? Seems unfair to me... don't think God would do that...

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Originally Posted by Depressed in MO

It's a scary thought because there are so many innocent people out there (and I am NOT talking about myself) who haven't had the chance to learn about the word of God and all that, do you think THEY would be accepted by God if indeed this date is to be true? Seems unfair to me...don't think God would do that...

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It sounds like that is your larger concern rather than the world ending in May.

God is Love. Rest your heart on that.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

It sounds like that is your larger concern rather than the world ending in May.

God is Love. Rest your heart on that.

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Yes, my major concern is my family. I have three little ones, who I've just introduced to church/God. They are great kids with big hearts, I just feel that they haven't had enough time according to what these "preachers" are preaching...

My largest concern is my family, first and far-most.

"God is Love. Rest your heart on that."

By the way, that is very beautiful and 100% true. Now that's something I can believe in!

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Originally Posted by Depressed in MO

Yes, my major concern is my family. I have three little ones, who I've just introduced to church/God. They are great kids with big hearts, I just feel that they haven't had enough time according to what these "preachers" are preaching...

My largest concern is my family, first and far-most.

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So you are already bringing God into their lives. And you've already taught your children to have "big hearts." God doesn't hand out diplomas to entitle people to get into heaven once they are "finished" learning all about Him (as if we could be... ). We are always learning.

Even the doubters -- A well-known Christian writer (Frederick Buechner) once said, "Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith." If you're even having doubts, that means there's something there.

The only people I would fear for are those who been presented with the Gospel, the two Greatest Commandments (love God and each other), and who have said, "No, thanks." And God may have something up His sleeve for them too.

If our time here on Earth is meant to give us a full understanding of God, the first source and center, and our journey to the universe of universes...


Well then I think the big man in the sky needs to restructure the curriculum, or perhaps upgrade the facilities in which we learn.

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Originally Posted by Depressed in MO

"God is Love. Rest your heart on that."

By the way, that is very beautiful and 100% true. Now that's something I can believe in!

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And it's pretty much all you need. All this May 2011 crap is just some clown who's either a) totally deluded and self-important, or b) laughing all the way to the bank. People have been setting dates since the day Jesus ascended, and they've all been wrong. Jesus said nobody, not even he himself, knows the day or hour. Some people will tell you that he didn't really mean that and you can know; baloney. I'll go with the plain words of the Lord: nobody knows, nobody can know. Don't let anyone who's not Jesus tell you differently. What comes after May 21, 2011? May 22, 2011. Nothing more. Love your family, you're doing great.

Wondergirl nailed it with her first post. Let's look at what the bible says about it... which she did using the most perfect verse to combat it. Funny they magically find their way around that one. The other thing is look at the person who has this "revelation". Biblically speaking, he should already be labeled a false prophet from his earlier fiasco... but no, just like the JWs, he just keeps pumping out end of the world falsehoods. When will people learn not to be fooled by this stuff?

Here's one more thing... even if they figured out the exact date, which remember the bible says ONLY the Father knows, why can't they just leave it at that... but no, in true cult fashion they add a bunch of other nonsense to the mix... now we're supposed to leave our churches too... so much for the bible telling us NOT to forsake the gathering of the brethren. These people need to spend more time reading what the bible DOES say and less time trying to MAKE it say something.

They are welcome to come to my church on May 22nd... I think a lot of people are going to need a little "pick me up" on that morning. I feel sorry for am equally embarrassed for them.

First no one knows, when the earth will end, there were 100's of dates for years. remember the year 2000 when all of the world was to end.

This is a small nut case group that for what ever reason won't agree to sign over all of their belongings to me the day before, if they are all sure, why won't they.

But next why is it even a worry, you should be laughing that anyone could believe such bull.

I WOULD laugh if it's wasn't so serious and sad. They are scaring people and really causing some confusion. But, I'm with you... if they're so sure about it, sign something over to me too... I could use their house or car, seeing as they won't be needing it and all...

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

I WOULD laugh if it's wasn't so serious and sad. They are scaring people and really causing some confusion. But, I'm with you...if they're so sure about it, sign something over to me too...I could use their house or car, seeing as they won't be needing it and all...

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I want in on this action, too!

My own view, based on nothing more than the fact that I can be a monumental jerk at times so it's what I would do:

God sets a date and time. Some bozo starts fumbling with numbers and accidentally hits on the date and time that God set. When that happens, God changes the date and time just to make sure the bozo is wrong.

Creating God in my own image? You bet! Fun to play with inside my own head? Definitely! Taking it seriously? No bloomin' way!

What really interests me are the proponents of this date stuff ( read that as HSB and others) refuse to come on and post their excuses for following this false teaching. Instead they simply post the same blather on every other thread. Even though it has nothing to do with the original subject.

Thank you all for your replies. It's very comforting to hear from all of you. I will admit, I need to open up my heart and learn more about Jesus/God, at least I'm at a starting point with myself and my family. With that being said, I guess I'm just at a gullible/vulnerable stage right now when it comes to hearing about things like this-at the current time, I'm a little ignorant to the facts so It's hard for me to decipher what's true and what's not. Hearing your different opinions certainly brings me a wider range of hope. Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So you are already bringing God into their lives. And you've already taught your children to have "big hearts." God doesn't hand out diplomas to entitle people to get into heaven once they are "finished" learning all about Him (as if we could be...). We are always learning.

Even the doubters -- A well-known Christian writer (Frederick Buechner) once said, "Doubts are the ants in the pants of faith." If you're even having doubts, that means there's something there.

The only people I would fear for are those who been presented with the Gospel, the two Greatest Commandments (love God and each other), and who have said, "No, thanks." And God may have something up His sleeve for them too.

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Your words are very, very comforting to me. I need to surround myself and loved ones around people like you... Sometimes I am so wrapped up in worrying about the wrong things that I miss out on the true meaning (which I should already know) of what's really important.

Depressed... the only people that make the bible confusing for others is when they are trying to FORCE something to be found in it. Don't be afraid of reading it... it means what it says. When Jesus says that NO MAN knows the day or the hour of His return... rest assured that is what He meant. When you read in the bible where it says that if we confess our sins and simply believe that Jesus died in our place we shall be saved... it's that simple. Don't let denominations confuse you with Gifts of the Holy Spirit or baptism (which are important... but not essential for salvation). Opening your heart to God is the most important step... you don't have to have it all figured out. Rest assured my friend, not everyone believes the garbage that is floating around out there about certain dates... I will sleep like a baby May 21st because I know where my heart is... certainly not in a man with a shaky biblical foundation.

Of course we need to live every day, as if it was our last one on earth, ( for many reasons) I can remember the day my first wife died, the last words were very mean and hurtful. So no chance to ever change those last words.
I had considered calling to try and "make up" but did not, so now that call is a little too long distant to make.

But even with that, as a Christian, or even many other major religions, we do talk about a "last day" and we do not know when it is, It may be tonight or it may be 1000 years from now, we just don't know. But the person who has their heart right with God will not worry about it,

I lost a good friend last month to cancer and another one only has about 5 weeks to leave. What they both said, was that they have made their peace with God.
And that is it, we need each day to have our peace made with God, so that if and when our time comes we are ready and face it with honor

Exactly my point. When your heart is right with God... who cares when He comes... He'll return when He does, and until then it's our job (as Christians) to continue to be the light of the world. True, this guy has a 1 in 365 chance of being right... but what does it matter? Quite frankly if someone knew the exact time and lived like a sinner up until the last moment then "repented", it says a lot about his heart and his true intentions. It doesn't even make sense to provide mankind with a date like that.

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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Hello HSB,

Both you and I posted our equations on a different forum. I claimed that the date for the end of the world was actually over a thousand years from now.

Why is the date you posted more accurate than mine? My formulation is based on sound Biblical fact and there is nothing wrong with the maths.

Why does Revelation 3:3 support your date and not mine? I am watching so don't I know the hour?

Isn't there going to be a problem here when you cite particular verses. I can always claim that any particular verse supports my date?


Is it not the case that your formulation has the same problem as mine i.e. both lack proof?


(I understand that 'your formulation' is not actually yours as such. But I use the word 'your' as a shorthand . In other words, 'your' means that you understand the formulation)


Tut

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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If that's what it says, as a DIRECT translation, in the original Hebrew, at the time it was quoted---okay then.

My favorite joke: There was a Pope who was greatly loved by all of his followers, a man who led with gentleness, faith and wisdom. His passing was grieved by the entire world, Catholic or not. As the Pope approached the gates of heaven, it was Saint Peter who greeted him in a firm embrace.

"Welcome your holiness, your dedication and unselfishness in serving your fellow man during your life has earned you great stature in heaven. You may pass through the gates without delay and are granted free access to all parts of heaven."

"You are also granted an open door policy and may at your own discretion meet with any heavenly leader, including the Father without prior appointment. Is there anything which our holiness desire?

"Well, yes," the Pope replied. "I have often pondered some of the mysteries which have puzzled and confounded theologians through the ages. Are there perhaps any transcripts which recorded the actual conversations between God and the prophets of old? I would love to see what was actually said without the dimming of memories over time."

Saint Peter immediately ushered the Pope to the heavenly library and explained how to retrieve the various documents. The Pope was thrilled and settled down to review the history of man's relationship with God. Two years later a scream of anguish pierced the stacks of the library.

Immediately several of the saints and angels came running. There found the Pope pointing to a single word on a parchment, repeating over and over, "There's an 'R', there's an 'R' -- it's celebrate, not celibate!"

Amazing what a difference in translation or an error in copying can make to an entire religion, no?

The whole idea of the end of the world has never made sense to me. I think that if you live your life giving to others (as Jesus would) and caring for those around you, then the date makes absolutely no difference whatsoever.


Finally--No just god would make me wait 10 years to get pregnant, then end the world before I'm even at the 20 week mark where an ultrasound would show me the gender of the baby.

TUT
There are other issues involved besides the specific numbers of the 'date.'
[1] Motivation for posting this kind of 'prediction.' For example Ezekiel 3:17 "Son of man I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel. Therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me." Many people are not aware and simply will not acknowledge that a watchman can legitimately be interpreted to mean someone who is 'watching' in the Bible. Also that Israel is a metaphor for all the professing Christians in our day. Many who call themselves Christians simply do not accept the spiritual import of the so called Old Testament. They understand that Ezekiel is to be taken only in its literal and grammatical context. They do not accept the fact that every word of Ezekiel is literally the words of Jesus Christ (Jehovah God) to us today. Just as Jesus' words in the New Testament are. They believe that having harmony of the scriptures and rightly dividing the word of truth means to essentially ignore any spiritual message in the Old Testament. My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

TUT
My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.

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So... we should be stoning to death people who are divorced and remarried for committing adultery? And when a man dies, his brother should marry his widow? And adultery is okay as long as the father is drunk and the daughters are seducing him, right? And police shouldn't stop a man from trying to sacrifice his son on an altar, as long as the man says that God told him to do it, right?

I think that unless you're taking the ENTIRE Bible as literal and valid, you've got some selective ideas JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

TUT
There are other issues involved besides the specific numbers of the 'date.'
[1] Motivation for posting this kind of 'prediction.' For example Ezekiel 3:17 "Son of man I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel. Therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me." Many people are not aware and simply will not acknowledge that a watchman can legitimately be interpreted to mean someone who is 'watching' in the Bible. Also that Israel is a metaphor for all the professing Christians in our day. Many who call themselves Christians simply do not accept the spiritual import of the so called Old Testament. They understand that Ezekiel is to be taken only in its literal and grammatical context. They do not accept the fact that every word of Ezekiel is literally the words of Jesus Christ (Jehovah God) to us today. Just as Jesus' words in the New Testament are. They believe that having harmony of the scriptures and rightly dividing the word of truth means to essentially ignore any spiritual message in the Old Testament. My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.

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My question is how do 'other issues' point to that specific date. I would have said that the only way to get to a specific date is to calculate it. Unless, of course there is a date mentioned somewhere else in the Bible.

Tut

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus. And many references tell us that there would come a time when God's prophets will know the time of the end, as they have in times past known the precise time of destruction. For example Noah, Abraham and Lot about Sodom, and Jonah about Nineveh.

Revelation 3:3 "If therefore thou shalt not watch I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Implying that those who are watching will know the hour.

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So, are you saying that whoever initially made this prediction is a prophet of God? Something doesn't add up here to me... Doesn't the story go that God spoke to Noah and told him to build the ark...

So did God speak to the guy who made up the May 21, 2011 date?

Maybe I need to read the bible again...

HSB,
While I applaud your courage to finally come on and stand up for your convictions, I still am waiting for an answer to my original question in another thread.
When May 22 rolls around and nothing has happened will you have to courage to come back on the forum and admit your mistake or will you, like a bad penny, simply disappear?
And one more question for you. This heresy of date predictions has been around since the 1880's or so, so what makes you think your leaders predictions is correct this time?

Tut and Depressed,
The big issue is that we need to continue to look at (watch) the Bible. Because God is actually speaking to us when we humble ourselves enough to say "You teach me through the Bible. In myself I'm not smart enough to apprehend the things that God's spirit teaches." Though the date comes from the Bible, we need to realize that our calculations are not the source of the date.

450donn
"This heresy of date predictions.. " By that quote you're really saying that your mind is already made up. I don't see any point to a discussion with someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

our calculations are not the source of the date.

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Of course, they are!

I guess, in the interest of fairness, I need to add that at any time before 1988 the effort to predict the date of Christ's return should be considered heretical. And it was doomed to failure from the outset. Because God said that no one knows except God Himself (Jesus is fully God). But things have changed dramatically since 1988. The Church Age has ended with Satan installed officially in all the churches as ruler. The Great Tribulation has been in full swing since 1988 until now. And the seven seals spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have been opened by Jesus. Revealing much new insight into words that have not changed for about 2000 years.

Not the actual source. Calculations are merely a tool. Understanding and interpretation are more directly connected to the idea of source.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

I guess, in the interest of fairness, I need to add that at any time before 1988 the effort to predict the date of Christ's return should be considered heretical. And it was doomed to failure from the outset. Because God said that no one knows except God Himself (Jesus is fully God). But things have changed dramatically since 1988. The Church Age has ended with Satan installed officially in all the churches as ruler. The Great Tribulation has been in full swing since 1988 until now. And the seven seals spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have been opened by Jesus. Revealing much new insight into words that have not changed for about 2000 years.

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Where is 1988 mentioned in the bible? Can I please have the direct bible verse that outlines the implementation plan of the Satanical installation in all churches? When was such an upgrade (or downgrade) begun and completed? And were we supplied with end-user manuals?

I would appreciate your biblical information on this matter, as it is indeed concerning... my mother attends church, you see.

HSB comments: Not the actual source. Calculations are merely a tool. Understanding and interpretation are more directly connected to the idea of source.
It's only HC's (no one else's) calculations based on only his (no one else's) understanding and interpretation.

Why hasn't the (Christian) world jumped on HC's bandwagon? Probably fewer than one hundred people are aboard.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

450donn
"This heresy of date predictions.." By that quote you're really saying that your mind is already made up. I don't see any point to a discussion with someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

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So, exactly as I thought, you cannot support your theories with scripture. If as you claim my mind is made up, change it. Prove to me your theories are correct and mine is false.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Tut and Depressed,
The big issue is that we need to continue to look at (watch) the Bible. Because God is actually speaking to us when we humble ourselves enough to say "You teach me through the Bible. In myself I'm not smart enough to apprehend the things that God's spirit teaches." Though the date comes from the Bible, we need to realize that our calculations are not the source of the date.

450donn
"This heresy of date predictions.." By that quote you're really saying that your mind is already made up. I don't see any point to a discussion with someone whose mind is closed on the subject.

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I mean no disrespect to your beliefs, so when I ask this, I'm truly searching for a direct answer from you if you will...

So when did you become a believer in all of this? HOW did you become a believer in all of this? Did God speak to you? Again, whoever claimed this date to be the end, is he considered to be a prophet of God? Do you consider yourself to be a prophet of God, or a follower of a prophet to God?

For me, I would need some serious proof to become a believer. One might ask or say to me "Well you can't see God, there is no proof, so how do you believe in God"-and my answer would be "God is in my heart, I feel Him, therefore I know..."

However, this theory is coming from some individual who probably conceived it from some other individual and so on and so forth... can he say the same?

This is a big deal, I can't somehow get it out of my head or my heart that someone is just screwing with people to see what may come of it; hence my initial post. This is scary. We know the world is going to come to an end, no one knows when, why try to predict a certain date and scare the shiz out of a bunch of people, or maybe even cause a catastrophe over making people believe that we only have two months left to live or the majority of us are going to die terrible slow deaths if we don't get accepted into God's Kingdom then(sorry for the run-on).

I know there are many people out there who truly believe in this theory; however, I would personally rather not know.

Sorry, I don't accept challenges to argue, or challenges to show who's smarter.

Dear Depressed,

If you'd really rather not know, then why the discussion ?

The classic response to bad news is that if you can't get them to stop spreading it, then try to kill the messenger, or at least silence him.

My advice is that if you don't like the news, just change the channel. You don't have to pay attention to it at all. Your privilege, and your choice.. . I'm just saying.

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

I guess, in the interest of fairness, I need to add that at any time before 1988 the effort to predict the date of Christ's return should be considered heretical. And it was doomed to failure from the outset. Because God said that no one knows except God Himself (Jesus is fully God). But things have changed dramatically since 1988. The Church Age has ended with Satan installed officially in all the churches as ruler. The Great Tribulation has been in full swing since 1988 until now. And the seven seals spoken of in Revelation and in Daniel have been opened by Jesus. Revealing much new insight into words that have not changed for about 2000 years.

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REALLY? I don't even BELIEVE in Satan--how could he be the ruler of my church--especially since there IS no head of my church?

And when were those seals broken? What are your SPECIFIC signs that you're using here? I don't remember the sun becoming as sackcloth and the moon as blood, and there have been any NUMBER of great earthquakes---which one are you counting? And frankly, the first 4 seals could have been ANY time in the last 2000 years, because there has NEVER been a time with no war, no hunger, and no death.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy

Dear Depressed,

If you'd really rather not know, then why the discussion ?

The classic response to bad news is that if you can't get them to stop spreading it, then try to kill the messenger, or at least silence him.

My advice is that if you don't like the news, just change the channel. You don't have to pay attention to it at all. Your privilege, and your choice. .....I'm just saying.

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Well thank you for that advice, I think, but it's kind of hard not knowing when you have a bunch of funked up people practically in your face spreading around the unthinkable bad news. Almost every thread I go into on here, you eventually show up and squeeze in the fact that the May 21 is just around the corner, so who cares about anything else.

I don't care what you think about my comment, you had absolutely no answer to my very respectful, polite question as to where and how your beliefs became about-which was the most important part of all of my last post . All I was trying to do was to learn more about your beliefs and how they came to be.

I would never follow you or your crowd of drunks who leave their families and belongings behind... but if you all are trying to recruit more people into your popular beliefs, you may want to try different tactics other than just blurting out that the world is going to end soon.

So my reply to you is, if you think we are all oblivous to your facts, why don't you simply change the channel and go somewhere where somebody may care. Just go away with all this junk and quit preaching your bull that you have absolutely no real basis on. You truly have no idea what you are doing to some people, including myself. That is what I meant when I said I'd rather not kow.