Acts 19:1-2
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(KJV)

They are called "disciples" so they knew about Jesus, but apparently had little information beyond that.

Paul allows that they were believers as he uses the term "since ye believed".

He then asks if they had received the Holy Ghost, showing that he believed that receiving the Holy Ghost was the norm for believers.

In this country today, none of the denominations that I know of teach their people that they need to be baptised in/with the Holy Ghost other than the pentecostal groups, and the percentage of their people who receive the Holy Ghost is pitifully low.

So, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

Why not?

Do you even believe that such a thing is possible?

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Originally Posted by galveston

Acts 19:1-2
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(KJV)

They are called "disciples" so they knew about Jesus, but apparently had little information beyond that.

Paul allows that they were believers as he uses the term "since ye believed".

He then asks if they had received the Holy Ghost, showing that he believed that receiving the Holy Ghost was the norm for believers.

In this country today, none of the denominations that I know of teach their people that they need to be baptised in/with the Holy Ghost other than the pentecostal groups, and the percentage of their people who receive the Holy Ghost is pitifully low.

So, have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed?

Why not?

Do you even believe that such a thing is possible?

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Yes I have received but I was not told such things were possible when I was young and educated by a traditional church. Traditional denominations don't speak of such things but once you have received there is no going back, you have truly become renewed

galveston - it's an interesting question... I guess my question to you is how do you know objectively that you have received the Holy Spirit? I mean, I could tell you that I have and you could tell me that you have... but how would we definitively know if we did?

I'm asking a serious question, not in jest.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by jakester

galveston - it's an interesting question...I guess my question to you is how do you know objectively that you have received the Holy Spirit? I mean, I could tell you that I have and you could tell me that you have...but how would we definitively know if we did?

I'm asking a serious question, not in jest.

thanks.

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Yea, I'd like to know this as well.

To be frank and honest, I don't believe anyone that does has any doubt, it is not something you can show a tag to someone else, but the felling is so overpowing I dobut it would be missed

For example?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakester

galveston - it's an interesting question...I guess my question to you is how do you know objectively that you have received the Holy Spirit? I mean, I could tell you that I have and you could tell me that you have...but how would we definitively know if we did?

I'm asking a serious question, not in jest.

thanks.

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Since this is a serious question the serious answer is the Gifts of the Spirit becoming manifest in your life. Speaking in tongues is usually the initial evidence but the ability to prophecy, to heal, to perform acts of faith, all these and more are explained in Scripture. For me it started with tongues totally unexpectedly but moved on to faith and healing, but your whole view changes you understand the Scriptures better. I would not lie about such matters and I don't expect you would either, however we are told to test every spirit so you will be brought undone if you lie, I have written a book about my experiences in revival and as a spirit filled Christian. I would have had no motivation to do this if it were not so.

Does it mean that each believer who have received the "Spirit" will speak in tongues,heal and have ability to prophecy?

If a believer does not show these special abilities, does this mean that person is not a true believer?



.

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

If a believer does not show these special abilities, does this mean that person is not a true believer?
.

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The answer to the above question is no.

There are at least two different “baptisms” referred to in relation to the Holy Ghost (or Spirit)

1 Cor 12:13
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(KJV)

Rom 8:9
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
(KJV)

So from these we see that the repentant sinner is the candidate, the body of Christ is the medium, and the Holy Spirit is the one doing the baptizing.

But here is something else:

Matt 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(KJV)

In this instance, the saved believer is the candidate, the Holy Ghost is the medium, and Jesus Christ does the baptizing.

In the Book of Acts, the effect of this baptism was immediate and observable. They spoke in languages they had never learned, just as the 120 did on the day of Pentecost. (The fire seen in Acts 2:3 is not mentioned as being repeated)

The gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in 1 Corinthians, vs 8-10 are not the baptism of the Holy Ghost, but are made available to the believer because he has been baptized in/with the Holy Ghost.

Clete gave a good practical explanation of this.

So it follows that very few people in the world have "received".

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So it follows that very few people in the world have "received".

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What sucks about the whole deal is that I believe in Christ and follow his teachings and I haven't spoken in tongues, prophesied, healed, or performed acts of faith.

I'm definitely screwed, I think, because even though I sincerely believe Jesus is the Christ, the Scriptures are the word of God, and that eternal life can only come as a gift from God, none of those things have ever happened in my life.

I just submitted my resignation for membership from my church because I don't want to be a phony anymore.

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Originally Posted by jakester

What sucks about the whole deal is that I believe in Christ and follow his teachings and I haven't spoken in tongues, prophesied, healed, or performed acts of faith.

I'm definitely screwed, I think, because even though I sincerely believe Jesus is the Christ, the Scriptures are the word of God, and that eternal life can only come as a gift from God, none of those things have ever happened in my life.

I just submitted my resignation for membership from my church because I don't want to be a phony anymore.

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Well, depending on what you are a member of, I hope you are only jesting.

What I am showing is not denominational teaching, it is Biblical teaching. Every born-again Christian is a candidate for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, which opens the doors to a greatly enlarged Christian experience.

You only have to believe it is available to YOU, and ask seriously and persistently. (It helps to be in the company of others who also believe that it is available):)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Does it mean that each believer who have received the "Spirit" will speak in tongues,heal and have ability to prophecy?

If a believer does not show these special abilities, does this mean that person is not a true believer?



.

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I understand you are not a Christian so the simple explanation is that there appears to be three stages which could be described as born again(baptised in water), baptised in the Spirit, and baptised with fire. These stages are mentioned in Matthew 3.11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire".


So when a person truly believes they become born again. When they earnestly seek the gifts of the Spirit and a deeper relationship with God they become baptised in the Spirit and when they further press in they become baptised with fire.

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Originally Posted by jakester

What sucks about the whole deal is that I believe in Christ and follow his teachings and I haven't spoken in tongues, prophesied, healed, or performed acts of faith.

I'm definitely screwed, I think, because even though I sincerely believe Jesus is the Christ, the Scriptures are the word of God, and that eternal life can only come as a gift from God, none of those things have ever happened in my life.

I just submitted my resignation for membership from my church because I don't want to be a phony anymore.

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Jake this isn't automatic it is about expectation and pressing into God, wanting a deeper relationship with Jesus and being involved. He is the rewarder of those who earnestly seek him. Now if you haven't been taugh these things then you might feel a little cheated, but forgive, because if you carry resentment it can't happen for you, then start to study the Scriptures and spend time in prayer. Remember this isn't about you, but about spreading the Gospel and coming to maturity as a Christian.

I know that for a while after I first spoke in tongues I would think "how does this work" but it becomes second nature when you exercise the gift and then the other things are added as the opportunity presents itself and you step out and pray for others

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So it follows that very few people in the world have "received".

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We don't know how many people have received, we know that some historical Christian figures like Wesley and Booth were baptised in the Spirit and of course the evangelists of the twentieth century. I have met people in many denominations including Catholic and Anglican persuasions as well as Pentecostal who are baptised in the Spirit so we know that there are a large number of charismatics but what percentage of Christians we do not know. These Giftings don't appear to manifest among non-believers so you are correct in assuming there are not "large" numbers in the world. This does not invalidate the experience since there are not large numbers of rich people either. What we do know is the number is growing just as the numbers of Christians are growing.

galveston, I received the filling of the Holy Spirit in 1982. We were and
Still attend a nondenonmination church. My husband and I was taught
About tongues by members of the church, they did not use tongues
In the Sunday church services. At that time we knew very little about
Tongues and it could have frighten us if it was in the church service.
Paul wrote in 1Cor.14:40 "Let all things be done decently and in order".
We were hungering and thirsting for the Lord and His teaching and
That is what we got. We grow spiritually and came to the time of understanding when we learned about tongues. The direction of tongues
Is to God. [1Cor.14:2] The purpose of tongues is to strengthen the inner man. [1Cor.14:4.] The effect of tongues is to build our faith [Jude 29]. Praying in the Spirit is an invaluable weapon in the spirtual arsenal
God has given us. I pray in the Spirit for faith and to be edified.
It is a tool available for me and you. I have grown in wisdom, knowledge,
And understanding in God's Word. Tongues has been a blessing
To me. I believe tongues is a great help in living in the Spirit.
Gifts are given by the Spirit, we are energized, and have the gifts of
Miracles, the gift of healing and more. I love the Lord and my main
Reason for living is to serve Him.
This is nothing to be a shamed of or embarrassed about. It is all biblical,
You better believe it.

Love and Blessings, Maggie 3

Maggie,

I'm sure you know by now that the Holy Spirit baptism is far more that the ability to speak with tongues, as you said as much in your post.

I receive that experience in 1953.

Here's a Scripture for our other readers:

John 16:13-14
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
(KJV)

Maranatha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

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Is that even English? It really does not make any sense.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Is that even English? It really does not make any sense.

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It makes perfect sense to me.

Here's another one you won't understand either:

Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(KJV)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

It makes perfect sense to me.

Here's another one you won't understand either:

Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(KJV)

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All right, I'm up for it - explain then both to me.

Amen galveston, It is the greatest thing that has ever happen to me,
Being in the spirit of the Lord.
Neselkarma, get an easy reading bible
And take a look at what you are missing.
"Call on Me, and I'll show you things
you never would have imagined"
Says the Lord, Jer.33:3

Maggie 3

If I were the moderator, I'd shut this thread down.

Galveston, I don't mean any disrespect but it seems from the onset that you've had an axe to grind with somebody... or at least you seem generally miffed.

I suppose that I'm bothering to say something here because I can already see that this post is going absolutely nowhere and you clearly have a strong opinion about this subject already so it's clear that you won't be moved. But where is your humility, man? Take a step back for a minute and evaluate what your real motivation was for posting this because it just doesn't seem genuine.

Respectfully.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Alright, I'm up for it - explain then both to me.

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I will make the attempt. Will you attempt to understand?

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(KJV)

The Spirit of truth is the Holy Ghost (or Spirit, the same meaning) He came to the Church as recorded in Acts 2:4, and He shows us what truth is. He teaches us what Christ brought to us.

Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(KJV)

"Carnal" simply means "natural". The mind we were born with. If we only accept what our physical senses tell us, we will never make the connection with God. Since there is no connection, it can't help but be a law-breaker. That is why the "new birth" is necessary.

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Originally Posted by jakester

If I were the moderator, I'd shut this thread down.

Galveston, I don't mean any disrespect but it seems from the onset that you've had an axe to grind with somebody...or at least you seem generally miffed.

I suppose that I'm bothering to say something here because I can already see that this post is going absolutely nowhere and you clearly have a strong opinion about this subject already so it's clear that you won't be moved. But where is your humility, man? Take a step back for a minute and evaluate what your real motivation was for posting this because it just doesn't seem genuine.

Respectfully.

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Jake, I apologize if I have given you this impression.

My reason for posting the question in the first place is to try to make more people aware of the blessings that come with the Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit. Blessings that are just not available without this experience.

So many Christians live really inconsistent lives. They are ineffective witnesses, they are too often defeated, they do not realize who they are in Christ, or what their purpose is in relation to Christ.

The Holy Spirit gives power to LIVE as God wants us to.

I have no axe to grind, but I'm not PC either.

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Originally Posted by galveston

They are ineffective witnesses

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So how do you witness now to be effective? If you are friends with an agnostic person, what would you say and do?

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Originally Posted by jakester

But where is your humility, man?

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Egocentric is what I am reading. Hmmmm...

I will make the attempt. Will you attempt to understand?

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(KJV)

The Spirit of truth is the Holy Ghost (or Spirit, the same meaning) He came to the Church as recorded in Acts 2:4, and He shows us what truth is. He teaches us what Christ brought to us.

How can that be since this "spirit" does not speak of himself (what does that mean?) but whatsoever he hears he speaks - that doesn't make any sense at all. I assume "shew" is supposed to be "show"? Then that is saying that the person has the power to see the future - this I do not believe since there is no one person that has ever done that.

Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(KJV)

"Carnal" simply means "natural". The mind we were born with. If we only accept what our physical senses tell us, we will never make the connection with God. Since there is no connection, it can't help but be a law-breaker. That is why the "new birth" is necessary.

Well that's not what the normal usage of carnal is (hint: relating to or given to crude bodily pleasures and appetites; marked by sexuality; bodily, corporeal; temporal; worldly). So the mind we were born with is an enemy to god? How does that make sense? Why would a god do that? I have no connection to your god and yet I don't break the law.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Egocentric is what I am reading. Hmmmm....

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So now I get a free phycoanalisis? Do I have to come to your office, or can you do it online?:D

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So how do you witness now to be effective? If you are friends with an agnostic person, what would you say and do?

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Pretty much what I have been doing all along; share the Truth. Jesus is Truth personified.

If that agnostic were in close enough proximity, I would introduce him/her to people who have been filled with the Holy Ghost and/or have been healed by the power of God through the Name of Jesus Christ.

Remember Paul's words to the Corinthians:

1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
(KJV)

He wasn't relying on his intellect or some ritual.

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Originally Posted by galveston

Pretty much what I have been doing all along; share the Truth. Jesus is Truth personified.

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How would you start? How would you present it?

What if the person is a stranger?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I will make the attempt. Will you attempt to understand?

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(KJV)

The Spirit of truth is the Holy Ghost (or Spirit, the same meaning) He came to the Church as recorded in Acts 2:4, and He shows us what truth is. He teaches us what Christ brought to us.

How can that be since this "spirit" does not speak of himself (what does that mean?) but whatsoever he hears he speaks - that doesn't make any sense at all. I assume "shew" is supposed to be "show"? Then that is saying that the person has the power to see the future - this I do not believe since there is no one person that has ever done that.

The Holy Spirit promotes Christ, not Himself.

(You know, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost) Whatever the Father wants to say, He does it through the Holy Ghost.

You apparently have never done any research into prophecy and its fulfillment, otherwise you would know that the Holy Spirit DOES know the future and at times has revealed it to man.

Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(KJV)

"Carnal" simply means "natural". The mind we were born with. If we only accept what our physical senses tell us, we will never make the connection with God. Since there is no connection, it can't help but be a law-breaker. That is why the "new birth" is necessary.

Well that's not what the normal usage of carnal is (hint: relating to or given to crude bodily pleasures and appetites; marked by sexuality; bodily, corporeal; temporal; worldly). So the mind we were born with is an enemy to god? How does that make sense? Why would a god do that? I have no connection to your god and yet I don't break the law.

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The New Testament was written in Greek, and to get the meaning of a word you need to use a Greek/English dictionary, but one that goes back to the era in which the verse was written. The meaning may not always be the same as it is in current usage. However, even in the sense that you use it, the meaning is still "fleshly".

God did not create man in a fallen or sinful state. That was man's decision, and we have been living with it ever since.

You may not break the moral law, but if you do not love God, you have broken the whole law, because that is the first commandment given to Israel, and restated by Jesus.

Matt 22:38-40
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(KJV)

I did receive the Holy spirit and I base this on :

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)


I was SEALED the instant I believed. Clear as crystal.

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Originally Posted by classyT

I was SEALED the instant I believed.

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What does this mean?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

I did recieve the Holy spirit and I base this on :

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory." (Ephesians 1:13)


I was SEALED the instant I believed. Clear as crystal.

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True, Classy, and I don't doubt it for a moment.

But being sealed is not the same thing as being baptized. There is more for you if you want it.

Gal,

I Have it all!! I can speak in tongues too but sometimes I do question if it just me... does that make sense?

Wondergirl,

It means when I believed what Christ did for me at the Christ... HE sealed me with the HOLY SPIRIT. The apostle Paul said it... not me.

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Originally Posted by classyT

wondergirl,

It means when I believed what Christ did for me at the Christ

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What did Christ do at the Christ?

WG,

Typo... it means I believe what Christ did for me at the CROSS... sorry...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

WG,

Typo....it means i believe what Christ did for me at the CROSS....sorry .....

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That's true of all believers. But sealed into what?

Sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise the second that I believed according to the Bible.

Sealed,sanctified,saved. Pick the word that fits best.