Here is another thought provoking question about the Bible or lack there-of. I believe the Bible was written 300 years A.D. Let's take all the millions of people that walked the Earth before the Bible with all it's rules were even known to anyone. How did they know what rules to follow? Did they know that working on Sunday was a sin that would cause them to end up in a hell?
On the same note, what about all these people in remote corners of the planet that have no idea what a Bible even is? How do they know the rules? It just doesn't seem fair that most people have not had access to there own mortality.

JR, this might interest you if you are being sincere: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...en-266994.html

That's because the bible is just a book. A story. When science can prove that jesus was real, and the earth is only 6000 years old... then I will believe.

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Originally Posted by StaticFX

thats because the bible is just a book. a story. when science can prove that jesus was real, and the earth is only 6000 years old... then i will believe.

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I understand that, I was asking the religious sect. It will be very difficult to get an answer from a christian on that question.

On what basis do you assign the time of writing for the Bible? It is a collection of writings dating from the time of Job (1843-1703 BC) until circa 96 AD, about only 60 years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and within the memory of the Apostle John.

You start your question with a false assumption.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

On what basis do you assign the time of writing for the Bible? It is a collection of writings dating from the time of Job (1843-1703 BC) until circa 96 AD, about only 60 years after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and within the memory of the Apostle John.

You start your question with a false assumption.

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I know one thing,, it had to be started after 1 B.C. That is about 2008 years ago.

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Originally Posted by jrwild62

I know one thing,,,, it had to be started after 1 B.C. That is about 2008 years ago.

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How do you know that?

The earliest books that now make up the Bible were written long before that. The final product, that we now call the Bible, was not completed until closer to 360AD. I don't have a reference for that but I am pretty sure I heard the Old Testament was put together around 170AD and the list of books that make up what we today recognize as the Bible was completed around 360AD

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

How do you know that?

The earliest books that now make up the Bible were written long before that. The final product, that we now call the Bible, was not completed until closer to 360AD. I dont have a reference for that but I am pretty sure I heard the Old Testament was put together around 170AD and the list of books that make up what we today recognize as the Bible was completed around 360AD

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Dear Jizzle, I don't care if the Bible was written in 1856 B.C. or 1978 AD. Who cares??
Does that make any of it fact?

And in molding with that, Just because 99.9999% of humanity believes in a certain thing (What ever it may be),, does that make it true? I think at this point, Humans are pretty ignorant to reality of the origin of the universe. In my opinion, it is definitely not the spooky invisable guy in the clouds who delights into sending most of his creation to torment for all of eternity. Why would a God of the universe plan it that way? So all my subjects will suffer and starve?? How do WE justify this suffering God?

Your dates as to when it was written is completely wrong, which is the problem.

It will go back to the earlist of writings, and though oral history before that.

Removing the timeline you set in your orignal question, how about we focus instead on:

- What about the people who existed before the bible and Jesus?

- What about the people in this world who have never heard of/been exposed to the bible?

I'm not sure of the answer to the first question, honestly. I know that some Christians believe the earth started with Adam and Eve, so people were always living under god, so to speak. So maybe they always knew about heaven and hell, and how to get to each place? I'm not sure, that's just a guess. I'm sure someone here can give an accurate answer.

The second question has been posed here before. It seems to be a question with a variety of answers; some have said those who are never introduced to Jesus/the bible will be forgiven by god, because they didn't know. They are like infants in a way; they couldn't decide to follow Jesus if they were never introduced to him. Of course, this comes with qualifiers on if the person was a good person or bad person, etc. Others have said, tough, those people go to hell, they didn't believe. God/Jesus makes himself known to all, and those people ignored him. Others have denied that anyone in the world could possibly live a life NOT knowing of Jesus/the bible, since Christianity is so widespread. Most have been in agreement that those who know about Jesus/the bible and reject it for another religion will go to hell. A very, very few say your ticket into heaven or hell is based upon your actions, not your beliefs, so if you are a good person, even if you rejected Jesus/the bible, you will get your chance to redeem yourself and go to heaven.

What's the right answer? I'm not sure there is one...

Jrwild, the bible is basically a history of the jewish/hebrew people. I'm not sure how you came to 300ad, but about the people before the bible was written, they relied on oral tradition.
However, if you believe, like I do, that the holy spririt can speak to us, then whatever time it was written, you can be sure that god, who lives forever, and has all knowledge, can save in text the history of the world.
One of the commandments was to keep the sabbath holy, but the sabbath was a saturday(name changed from shabbath, or seventh day of the week, with the first day of the jewish week being sunday).
Yes, the primitive people didn't have the commandments, and that's one of the reasons for the flood, because of the vain imaginings of the apostates. The one true god did hold them accountable, and if you've read the bible, you would know that god warns whoever he is about to destroy.

That's something I've never understood... I have read about half the bible (just for curiosity) , and what I read was like what cogs said. Jewish/hebrew people... OK, so if the jewish people are the "chosen" ones? Where did catholisism(sp?) come from? Shouldn't we all be jewish if we believe?

Then you have Christmas... how many christians celebrate it by buying a christmas tree? Hate to say it... but a christmas tree has nothing to do with christmas. The germans started the tradition of bringing evergreens into the home during winter because it was thought to bring good luck.

According to the bible... Noah lived almost 900 years... (I didn't catch that when reading, but my friend who is a pastor pointed it out)... um... 900 years? That means that Noah was on the earth for almost 1/6 of the time the earth has even been here? Lol

... oh I could just go on and on... so much of it doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by jrwild62

Dear Jizzle, I don't care if the Bible was written in 1856 B.C. or 1978 AD. Who cares???
Does that make any of it fact?

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I have never stated anything that should lead anyone to think that I believe the Bible to be a book of facts.

You stated that you KNOW it HAD to have STARTED AFTER 1 B.C. and I was simply offering you information to debunk that.

Above all that, why would 99.99999% of the populations BELIEF in something make ANYTHING true. Who is saying that is the case?

There are answers to your questions... answers that if I were to try and explain, you would take them as Religious Dogma, even though I am not religious and am typically against those that are in most religious discussions on this board.

I do not believe the Bible to be a book of facts throughout time. But I do believe in a lot of what the Bible has to say. I do believe in God but I do NOT believe there is some scary invisible guy up in the clouds.

My advice is to really contemplate what God is... the biggest problem I have with religion is their attempt to personify "God" as if it really is some scary invisible guy up in the clouds. I think this is one of the biggest deterrents of Belief.

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Originally Posted by StaticFX

Thats something ive never understood.... i have read about half the bible (just for curiosity) , and what i read was like what cogs said. Jewish/hebrew people... ok, so if the jewish people are the "chosen" ones? where did catholisism(sp?) come from?? shouldnt we all be jewish if we believe?

Then you have Christmas... how many christians celebrate it by buying a christmas tree? hate to say it... but a christmas tree has nothing to do with christmas. The germans started the tradition of bringing evergreens into the home during winter because it was thought to bring good luck.

According to the bible... Noah lived almost 900 years.... (i didnt catch that when reading, but my friend who is a pastor pointed it out)....um... 900 years? that means that Noah was on the earth for almost 1/6 of the time the earth has even been here? lol

... oh i could just go on and on... so much of it doesnt make sense.

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If you read the Bible out of curiosity, how did you even make it through half of it? Most people that have tried to read it objectivly I assume, would be so turned off after the first 5 pages that they would drop it and go mow their lawn. As far as it making sense, You would be hard pressed to find any sense at all in it's pages. It is filled with inaccuracies, controdictions, Absurdites, and down right scientific impossibilites. You see, in my opinion, when these guys were sitting around making this stuff up, they had no idea what science was all about. They did not understand that most stars are a million times bigger than the Earth. They didn't know the expanse of space. They didn't understand that the moon is not a source of light, but only reflects it. And for sure, they did not understand photosynthisis. God put all the plants on the Earth one day,, then waited 2 more days to come up with the sun. Enough said...

Spell check is not working for me right now, forgive the typos...

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

I have never stated anything that should lead anyone to think that I believe the Bible to be a book of facts.

You stated that you KNOW it HAD to have STARTED AFTER 1 B.C. and I was simply offering you information to debunk that.

Above all that, why would 99.99999% of the populations BELIEF in something make ANYTHING true. Who is saying that is the case?

There are answers to your questions... answers that if I were to try and explain, you would take them as Religious Dogma, even though I am not religious and am typically against those that are in most religious discussions on this board.

I do not believe the Bible to be a book of facts throughout time. But I do believe in a lot of what the Bible has to say. I do believe in God but I do NOT believe there is some scary invisible guy up in the clouds.

My advice is to really contemplate what God is... the biggest problem I have with religion is their attempt to personify "God" as if it really is some scary invisible guy up in the clouds. I think this is one of the biggest deterrents of Belief.

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The reason for the 99.999999% belief comment of mine was that Christians justify their beliefs by numbers. Which of course does make it true. People can be convinced of just about anything if the speaker or organization is good enough in their presentation.
For example, Penn&Teller had a show called BS. They presented people in a very high class restaurant with what was supposed to be very expensive exclusive bottled water. They sampled it and were VERY impressed as they gave their review of the stuff. Ends up, it was all water taken from the dirty hose in the back of the restaurant. The meat they ate was supposed to from cows that were massaged daily in Japan. It was a cheap frozen dinner. And so on... The episode was Penn&Tellers, BS, 'The best of'. Goggle it.

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Originally Posted by jrwild62

The reason for the 99.999999% belief comment of mine was that Christians justify thier beliefs by numbers. Which of course does make it true. People can be convinced of just about anything if the speaker or organization is good enough in thier presentation.
For example, Penn&Teller had a show called BS. They presented people in a very high class restraunt with what was supposed to be very expensive exclusive bottled water. They sampled it and were VERY impressed as they gave thier review of the stuff. Ends up, it was all water taken from the dirty hose in the back of the restraunt. The meat they ate was supposed to from cows that were massaged daily in Japan. It was a cheap frozen dinner. And so on..... The episode was Penn&Tellers, BS, 'The best of'. Goggle it.

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Hahah... that does not surprise me one bit.

Ya know how in movies when there are two people fighting the same cause that don't know each other... then they come upon each other in the [jungle, warehouse, alley, whatever] and they are ready to fire on each other... but they stop, sit there, not sure whether they are on the same side?

Kind of like me and you ;)

I agree that many Christians only believe what they believe because it is the belief of the general population... which is why so many of them do poorly when confronted with real questions.

It is similar to the situation of discussing politics and you run into the Republican that is only a Republican because their parents were (for example)... and every time you question their politics they give you some answer like: "Because these colors do NOT run!" or "Because united we stand, divided we fall!"

Its like, yes... I read those bumper stickers, too. Try processing an original thought!


I have been submerged in Religion since birth... my parents are quite the extreme Republican Christians.

While I agree with a lot of the ideals, I have a very different perspective on the situation.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Hahah... that does not surprise me one bit.

Ya know how in movies when there are two people fighting the same cause that dont know eachother... then they come upon each other in the [jungle, warehouse, alley, whatever] and they are ready to fire on each other... but they stop, sit there, not sure whether or not they are on the same side?

kinda like me and you ;)

I agree that many Christians only believe what they believe because it is the belief of the general population... which is why so many of them do poorly when confronted with real questions.

It is similar to the situation of discussing politics and you run into the Republican that is only a Republican because their parents were (for example)... and every time you question their politics they give you some answer like: "Because these colors do NOT run!" or "Because united we stand, divided we fall!"

Its like, yes... I read those bumper stickers, too. Try processing an original thought!


I have been submerged in Religion since birth... my parents are quite the extreme Republican Christians.

While I agree with a lot of the ideals, I have a very different perspective on the situation.

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Yes, people are easily influenced by outside forces. Outside of their minds. Which explains the popularity of religion, McDonalds, Budweiser, 'Enlargement pills', and just about everything on TV. Humans are suckers for anything that strokes their emotions or sex organs. We are suckers!
If you were brought up in such a religious up-bringing and came out of it objectively, more power to you. Most become helpless victims of the nonsense that was forced into their heads. They make it point to never have fun. Most things that are fun,, are sins.
So I make it point to sin often. And yes, I have to work Sundays sometimes. And yes, I have fun during sex. God would not approve.

I understand how, to someone who had a cursory knowledge of the bible, god may seem unreasonably demanding.
To me, he's a source of morality and security. Like a father, he wants the best for us. This is evident by his sacrifice for our future destiny.
Also, I can see the seeming futility of accepting anything other than the norm for humanity, because the current state of society seems insurmountable to prevent people from doing whatever comes to their minds.
It would take a miracle to change people, to form a society that meets everyones' needs. In my opinion, the only person that could do this is god.

Dear Jr,

One reason the fundamentalist Christians have to say the "big lie" that the world was created only 6,000 years ago is so that they don't have to account for all the human beings who lived and died before the Jewish men invented GodAlmighty and the Pharisee Paul created "Jesus Christ" from stories. :)

Religions have sacred documents called scriptures on which they base their worldview or *beliefs*. Christianity for example, is based on a Supernatural world filled with entities such as gods, angels, devils and so on.

HOwever, for whatever "truth" that a religion puts out there, up arise ten questions that make *belief* seem cruel or silly or unbelieveable. So, more stories are invented to cover over the improbable.

Essentially, all people according to the Bible who are not Christ believers are not saved to heaven... or spend eternity in hell.

Kind of an extreme punishment. :)

Believers have no compunction about *making-up* their own interpretations instead of relying on their scriptures.

Jesus made a covenant with His disciples for the Kingdom. Prior to that the Covenant guaranteed the Promised Land, and before Exodus the promise was to Abraham that his family would be especially blessed. And Adam was only promised that he would have to work hard and then he would die (after they were put out of Eden) So saying that the Old Testament people were shortchanged is wrong, they got what they were promised.

There's much speculation here, and cannot be replied to in one post. I'll start by saying that when reading anything, look at the motive and the message. This is beside looking at the facts, such as places, battles, cultures, tribes, and empires.
To me, the motive for the bible, is a preservation of history, for the knowledge and instruction of the present-day peoples.
The overall motive, I think, behind the books, is the will of god, demonstrated through society's reaction to his influence.
The will of god is pretty clearly spelled out, with commands for worship, and for all of us treating each other with love.
God's personality shows as he strikes at the cause of mankind's chaos.

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Originally Posted by jrwild62

If you read the Bible out of curiosity, how did you even make it through half of it? Most people that have tried to read it objectivly I assume, would be so turned off after the first 5 pages that they would drop it and go mow thier lawn. As far as it making sense, You would be hard pressed to find any sense at all in it's pages. It is filled with inaccuracies, controdictions, Absurdites, and down right scientific impossibilites. You see, in my opinion, when these guys were sitting around making this stuff up, they had no idea what science was all about. They did not understand that most stars are a million times bigger than the Earth. They didn't know the expanse of space. They didn't understand that the moon is not a source of light, but only reflects it. And for sure, they did not understand photosynthisis. God put all the plants on the Earth one day,,,, then waited 2 more days to come up with the sun. Enough said...

Spell check is not working for me right now, forgive the typos...

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Athiests are always talking about contridictions, absuidites and scientific impossibilities, but when I ask them to give me a specific example, they don't. Re-read Gen. 1 and you will see that light is shown in vs 5, along with day and night.

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Athiests are always talking about contridictions, absuidites and scientific impossibilities, but when I ask them to give me a specific example, they don't.

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That statement is not true and total nonsense!!

I have posted twice a topic here on this board on Biblical contradictions, mistakes, impossibilities, etc. complete with statements referring to biblebook and verse.

So your statement that "when you ask Atheists to give you a specific example, they don't" is completely incorrect.

I once provided a list of 50 examples, and another time a list of over 100 examples.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

That statement is not true and total nonsense !!!

I have posted twice a topic here on this board on Biblical contradictions, mistakes, impossibilities, etc. , complete with statements refering to biblebook and verse.

So your statement that "when you ask Atheists to give you a specific example, they don't" is completely incorrect.

I once provided a list of 50 examples, and another time a list of over 100 examples.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Really? On what thread and what post?

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Really? On what thread and what post??

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On Religious Discussions. Do your own homework...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

.

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Originally Posted by cogs

there's much speculation here, and cannot be replied to in one post. i'll start by saying that when reading anything, look at the motive and the message. this is beside looking at the facts, such as places, battles, cultures, tribes, and empires.
to me, the motive for the bible, is a preservation of history, for the knowledge and instruction of the present-day peoples.
the overall motive, i think, behind the books, is the will of god, demonstrated through society's reaction to his influence.
the will of god is pretty clearly spelled out, with commands for worship, and for all of us treating each other with love.
god's personality shows as he strikes at the cause of mankind's chaos.

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God's personality shows as he strikes at the cause of mankind's chaos.

"As he STRIKES!"

Need you say more??

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Originally Posted by jrwild62

god's personality shows as he strikes at the cause of mankind's chaos.

"As he STRIKES!"

Need you say more????

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Why instead of 'STRIKING', can't he love us more as he professes to?

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Originally Posted by jrwild62

Why instead of 'STRIKING', can't he love us more as he professes to?

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love is the reason god intervenes in our lives. Sin is what brings our downfall, and god wants to prevent that. Some would say that sin is not a problem. God has a standard for us, that we do not have for ourselves. He knows the result to sin. We would be wise to find out his remedy.

Thumbs up, Cogs!

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Originally Posted by cogs

love is the reason god intervenes in our lives. sin is what brings our downfall, and god wants to prevent that. some would say that sin is not a problem. god has a standard for us, that we do not have for ourselves. he knows the end result to sin. we would be wise to find out his remedy.

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That's another point I would like address. "God's love for us." God says his love is unconditional. He loves all his subjects,, except!, gays, Muslums, Jews, Buddists, murderers, thieves, people who disobey their fathers, anybody who does not whorship ME, and esspecially people who work on Sundays. Of course this list could go on forever. LOVE does not mean sending people to hell to be tortured for all of eternity for finite sins.
Why couldn't God program our brains to simply not have any thoughts of sin? He made us with free will. Big mistake! God desires all his subjects to worship him 24/7/365/eternity. Yet if a fireman works on Sunday to save your home from flames,, he will burn in hell. If a soldier shoots a guy in half with an AK-47 to protect the freedom of his country, he burns in hell. THOU SHALL NOT KILL! There is no subtext, no previsions, no exemptions, THOU SHALL NOT KILL! Has any one in here mowed their lawn, washed dishes, punched a time clock on Sunday?? To hell with you.
Sure, God loves us, but only if you follow his rules to the tee. And to go thought the 73 average years of life expectantcy without have a single sexual thought in your head seems impossible to me. There-fore 99.9999% of humans go to hell to burn. Some may say, but you can ask for forgivness before death. Was Hitler afforded that say right?