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Here's the proof you asked for

PROPHECY PROOF OF BIBLE

Prophecy Fulfillment Prophecy Fulfillment
(1). Gen 3:15 (virgin birth) Mat 1:20 (2). Isa 11:1 (descendent of Jesse) Mt 1:1-16
(3). Micah 5:2 (place of birth) Lu 2:15,16 (4). Jer 31:15 (Herod's attempt) Mt 2:16
(5). Isa 42:1 (ministry area) Mt 4:13-15 (6). Zech 9:9 (grand entry) Lu 19:30-35
(7). Ps 41:9 (Judas' betrayal) John 13:18 (8). Zech 11:12 (betrayal price) Mt 26:15
(9). Zech 11:13 (money for field) Mt 27:9,10 (10). Gen 3:15 (“heel” bruised) John 19:18
(11). Isa 53:3 (Jesus rejected) John 1:11 (12). Ps 2:2 (council against Jesus) Mk 15:1
(13). Zech 13:7 (arrest, deserted) Mk 14:27,50 (14). Isa 53:8 (unfair trial) Mk 15:1-25
(15). Ps 35:11 (perjured witnesses) Mk 14:56-59 (16). Isa 53:5,6,10 (our penalty) Rom 5:6,8
(17). Ps 69:19 (Jesus mocked) Mt. 27:28,29 (18). Isa 50:6 (beaten, spit on) Mt. 26:67

(19). Isa 53:7 (no defense offered) Mt 26:62,63 & Mt 27: 13,14
(20). Isa 53:12 (with transgressors) Mk 15:27,28
(21). Ps 22:16 (hands, feet pierced) Jn 19:18 (22). Ps 22:1 (cry to Father) Mt 26:46
(23). Ps 38:11 (friends view) Lu 23:49 (24). Ps. 22:18 (gambling, clothes) Mt 27:35
(25). Ps 22:6,7,8 (reproached) Mt 27:39-44 (26). Ps. 69:21 (gall, vinegar) Mt 27:34
(27). 109:25 (enemies shake heads) Mt 27:29 (28). Ps 22:17 (watch Him die) Mt 27:36
(29). Ps 31:5 (He yields spirit) Lu 23:46 (30). Zech 12:10 (side pierced) Jn 19:34

(31). Ex 12:46, Ps 34:20 (no bones broken) John 19:32,33,36

(32). Amos 8:9 (sun darkened) Mt 27:45 (33). Isa 53:9 (rich man's tomb) Mt 27:57-60

All above prophecies are from the Old Testament
Additionally, Jesus made some prophecies about Himself.

Mt 20:18,19 Eight separate details
1. I will be betrayed at Jerusalem.
2. I will be betrayed to the chief priests and scribes.
3. The priests and scribes will condemn me to death.
4. The priests and scribes will deliver me to the Romans. (gentiles)
5. The Romans will mock me.
6. The Romans will scourge me.
7. The Romans will crucify me.
8. I will rise from the dead on the third day.

The 33 details from the Old Testament plus the 8 details that Jesus gave in the New Testament make a total of 41 definite events perfectly fulfilled.

Only the one true God knows the future, and He had it written down so that you would believe.

Now, if one of you math hounds will compute the odds against all these things happening to one life, please post it so that everyone can see just how absured it is to think that these things happened by chance.

There's over 300
Tenakh/Hebrew Scriptures

How to make your prophecies come true...

1 - Refrain from including specific points, actions, facts
2 - Predict Something That Has Already Happened
3 - Predict Something That is Very Likely to Happen
4 - Make Such a Large Number of Prophecies That Some are Likely to be Fulfilled
5 - Make Such a Vague Prediction That Almost Anything Could Fulfill it
6 - Make your prophecies self-fulfilling
7 - Predict Something You Have the Power to Make Happen
8 - Make Predictions That can Never be Checked
9 - Falsify Events to Make it Appear Your Prophecy Has Been Fulfilled
10-Claim the Events Fulfil a Prophecy Even When They Don't
11-Have Knowledge of Future Events

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

How to make your prophecies come true ....

1 - Refrain from including specific points, actions, facts
2 - Predict Something That Has Already Happened
3 - Predict Something That is Very Likely to Happen
4 - Make Such a Large Number of Prophecies That Some are Likely to be Fulfilled
5 - Make Such a Vague Prediction That Almost Anything Could Fulfill it
6 - Make your prophecies self-fulfilling
7 - Predict Something You Have the Power to Make Happen
8 - Make Predictions That can Never be Checked
9 - Falsify Events to Make it Appear Your Prophecy Has Been Fulfilled
10-Claim the Events Fulfil a Prophecy Even When They Don't
11-Have Knowledge of Future Events

:)

Did you even bother to read the references? I didn't think so!

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

There's over 300
Tenakh/Hebrew Scriptures

Even better! What would that make the odds?

And of course people I could have done a prophecy on Cred saying that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

And of course people I could have done a prophacy on Cred saying that ??

Yes you could have done that. But you did not.
That makes your reaction a prophesy as per #2 of my "How to make your prophecies come true" list.

:>)

.

I am going to go downstairs and get a coke. This I have foreseen.
I am also going to go and raise the dead. This I have foreseen.

I now offer proof of my ability to know the future.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/...7ac6de1681.jpg
Now that I have fulfilled the prophecies and only god can know the future. It means I am god and as god my word can not be doubted. Go and spread the gospel of my abilities.

So Nostradamus is a prophet/god?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

How to make your prophecies come true ....

1 - Refrain from including specific points, actions, facts
2 - Predict Something That Has Already Happened
3 - Predict Something That is Very Likely to Happen
4 - Make Such a Large Number of Prophecies That Some are Likely to be Fulfilled
5 - Make Such a Vague Prediction That Almost Anything Could Fulfill it
6 - Make your prophecies self-fulfilling
7 - Predict Something You Have the Power to Make Happen
8 - Make Predictions That can Never be Checked
9 - Falsify Events to Make it Appear Your Prophecy Has Been Fulfilled
10-Claim the Events Fulfil a Prophecy Even When They Don't
11-Have Knowledge of Future Events

:)

All these objections are valid if you are talking about Nostradamus or some psychic. They simply do not relate to references I gave.

And what an amazingly fast study you are! From the time I posted until your reply was a whole hour and 23 minutes, during which time you found my post, looked up the passages,(all 68 of them) formulated your reply and posted. Amazing!

You have lost all your cred-ability. (Pun intended)

Actually, your #11 is the ONLY one applicable. Who knows future events other than the One and Only God?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

So Nostradamus is a prophet/god?

Absured! What I have read of Nostradamus falls under the category of being so vague that anything can be assumed, according to your own imaginatioin.

Just try reading the references, then maybe you can make an intelligent contribution to this discussion.

You DO know how to find scriptures in the Bible, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealb

I am going to go downstairs and get a coke. This I have foreseen.
I am also going to go and raise the dead. This I have foreseen.

You're planning to wake the dead? Glad I don't live next door to you, pal Ahh, peace and quiet... Say Credo, DEMENSIA RULES!! :p

The whole Bible traces the lineage of Jesus, who was from the line of David, born in David's home town of Bethlehem Ephrata. Other people are in there, but they gradually fall by the wayside as the story unfolds--the garden, the promise to Noah, the promise to Abram the promise to Moses, the Promised land, the Covenant and then the New Covenant. Even the book of Ruth, Ruth and Boaz were some of his ancestors. I mean why else would we be reading about them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Absured! What I have read of Nostradamus falls under the category of being so vague that anything can be assumed, according to your own imaginatioin.

Just try reading the references, then maybe you can make an intelligent contribution to this discussion.

You DO know how to find scriptures in the Bible, right?

Wow, you are one condescending christian.

All right I'll actually give a real answer to why we don't see this as proof.

1. You have to prove it with multiple sources that the event actually happened.
2. You have to prove with multiple sources that the prophecies were written before not during or after the event.
3. You have to prove that wording was specific enough that it doesn't fall under interpretation
4. You have to prove that the events were not something the writers had control over. (IE I can't write a prophecy that I'm going to go to jail and then rob a bank, anyone can do that it's not a big deal.)

If you can do all 4 of those for even one of those you might have something there but I don't think you can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealb

Alright I'll actually give a real answer to why we don't see this as proof.

1. You have to prove it with multiple sources that the event actually happened.
2. You have to prove with multiple sources that the prophecies were written before not during or after the event.
3. You have to prove that wording was specific enough that it doesn't fall under interpretation
4. You have to prove that the events were not something the writers had control over. (IE I can't write a prophecy that I'm going to go to jail and then rob a bank, anyone can do that it's not a big deal.)

If you can do all 4 of those for even one of those you might have something there but I don't think you can.

All that you require was done years ago. When men were assembling the writings into one volume they questioned everything, they asked the questions you are asking now. You need to study where and how the Bible came into existence. If you choose to reject the careful work of true scholars, then I certainly can't help you.

P.S. Why is it that you accept writings of, say, Homer, Socrates, or some other ancient but refuse to accept the writings of Moses, Isaiah, David, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul?
What "outside sources" do the ancient Greek writings have to validate them?

I suspect that you also have not bothered to read the references.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

I suspect that you also have not bothered to read the references.

Can you put them all in this thread please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

All that you require was done years ago. When men were assembling the writings into one volume they questioned everything, they asked the questions you are asking now. You need to study where and how the Bible came into existence. If you choose to reject the careful work of true scholars, then I certainly can't help you.

P.S. Why is it that you accept writings of, say, Homer, Socrates, or some other ancient but refuse to accept the writings of Moses, Isaiah, David, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul?
What "outside sources" do the ancient Greek writings have to validate them?

I suspect that you also have not bothered to read the references.

The greatest works of Homer and Socrates did not deal with historical fact. If the point of your question is to ask if I have any problems with Moses, Isaiah, David, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, or Paul writing works of fiction, philosophy, or even (dare I say it.. ) myth, then no, I do not.

If this was all done it should be handy for someone like you to point it out to us.

Quote:

Why is it that you accept writings of, say, Homer, Socrates, or some other ancient

I don't, never will you see me talking about how I think Atlantis is real. Unless we found good outside evidence that backs up his account. I think ancient people told good stories and somewhere down the line one generation forgot to tell the next that these were just stories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

All these objections are valid if you are talking about Nostradamus or some psychic. They simply do not relate to references I gave.

Why not? Do you perhaps have OSE for the bible stories being anything more than myth? If so, can you please provide these details?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

And what an amazingly fast study you are

I once read the entire book and came to the conclusion from it's lack of any OSE that it is nothing but myth, mixed into some local historical heresay. Why waste time by studying that?

:>)

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

And of course people I could have done a prophacy on Cred saying that ??

yeah FR_C and I would have said yes you can count on that for sure!!

Galveston I read the statistics in the 70's of one person being able to fulfull all the prophecies but I will have to look it up again.

Okay, first, I will admit I didn't look up all the scriptures that Galveston posted, because I don't believe that the bible is the word of God. I have also read the bible, heck, I've studied it cover to cover, many times, which is why I don't believe it's the word of God.

Having said that, the farmers almanac is also very good at predicting future events, I'm pretty sure that God didn't write it either.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

... the farmers almanac is also very good at predicting future events, I'm pretty sure that God didn't write it either

As far as I know God didn't write him/herself anything ever.
Neither the almanac nor the bible are very good at predicting anyway !

:>)

.

Look, we are talking about Jesus here. Jesus was born a Jew and He studied the Hebrew scriptures. John the Baptist was his cousin, also a Jew. It would have been no difficult feat for Him to act out the prophesies He had read about since He was a small child, no different than a child acting out a scene from a book you have read him. The other prophesies deal with Jewish law so them being carried out according to Law is no surprise either. The basic question is, did Jesus believe He was the son of God? There is ample evidence that He did. Then, do I myself believe He was the son of God? That is what our faith in Him is alll about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildandblue

Look, we are talking about Jesus here. Jesus was born a Jew and He studied the Hebrew scriptures. John the Baptist was his cousin, also a Jew. It would have been no difficult feat for Him to act out the prophesies He had read about since He was a small child, no different than a child acting out a scene from a book you have read him. The other prophesies deal with Jewish law so them being carried out according to Law is no suprise either. The basic question is, did Jesus believe He was the son of God? There is ample evidence that He did. Then, do I myself believe He was the son of God? That is what our faith in Him is alll about.

It is really tough to predict how long you will be in a tomb. I ask you, did you read the references?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

As far as I know God didn't write him/herself anything ever.
Neither the almanac nor the bible are very good at predicting anyway !

:>)

.

All this persistent, pathological, pernicious, purveyance of poop leaves me aboslutely in-cred-ulous.

You still haven't given any evidence that these so called scholars used to put together the bible. If this was done like you said it was why are you so reluctant to give it, if you say it was done already. Is it perhaps because the only evidence for the unbelievable sections of the bible is the bible its self.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealb

You still haven't given any evidence that these so called scholars used to put together the bible. If this was done like you said it was why are you so reluctant to give it, if you say it was done already. Is it perhaps because the only evidence for the unbelievable sections of the bible is the bible its self.

You're kidding, right? To do what you seem to demand would be voluminous, and I don't have the time to research and put together that much material for someone who would not read it. I'm sure that there are web sites that have it all there for the looking. Help yourself. And you still haven't read the references yet, have you? I'll be happy to explain how to look them up, if you like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Okay, first, I will admit I didn't look up all the scriptures that Galveston posted, because I don't believe that the bible is the word of God. I have also read the bible, heck, I've studied it cover to cover, many times, which is why I don't believe it's the word of God.

Having said that, the farmers almanac is also very good at predicting future events, I'm pretty sure that God didn't write it either.;)

Pardon me if I question your Biblical scholarship. There is no way to explain how events centuries in the future were written other than by foreknowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Pardon me if I question your Biblical scholarship. There is no way to explain how events centuries in the future were written other than by foreknowledge.

I went to Catholic school for 10 years, trust me, the bible was shoved down my throat to the point that I wanted to gag, in fact I think I did.

As for predicting the future, yes, vaguely, I can do that as well, so can you. If you don't pinpoint specific dates, are very vague, then there is a chance that what you predict will come true.

If you really want me to believe that the bible is fact, then show me one quote from the bible predicting something with an actual date and the precise event.

I believe in God, but not the bible. Sorry Galveston, I'd love for this to be proof that God exists, but it isn't. You choose to believe that the bible is the word of God, perhaps because you were raised that way, or you read it and had a profound reaction, or through church, whatever the case may be. I choose to believe that the bible was written by man, with no help whatsoever from God. It's an interesting read, but fact? I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

All this persistent, pathological, pernicious, purveyance of poop .....

It's quite funny to see you reacting here with precisely the same stuff and emptiness you are posting "ad nauseum" at the Political Discussions Board.

:>)

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

It's quite funny to see you reacting here with precisely the same stuff and emptiness you are posting "ad nauseum" at the Political Discussions Board.

:>)

.

No good answer, huh? Don't get discouraged, it happens sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I went to Catholic school for 10 years, trust me, the bible was shoved down my throat to the point that I wanted to gag, in fact I think I did.

As for predicting the future, yes, vaguely, I can do that as well, so can you. If you don't pinpoint specific dates, are very vague, then there is a chance that what you predict will come true.

If you really want me to believe that the bible is fact, then show me one quote from the bible predicting something with an actual date and the precise event.

I believe in God, but not the bible. Sorry Galveston, I'd love for this to be proof that God exists, but it isn't. You choose to believe that the bible is the word of God, perhaps because you were raised that way, or you read it and had a profound reaction, or through church, whatever the case may be. I choose to believe that the bible was written by man, with no help whatsoever from God. It's an interesting read, but fact? I don't think so.

Precise events is EXACTLY the point of my OP. You still haven't read the references, or you would not have made that statement.

Re. Your reaction to Altenweg :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Precise events is EXACTLY the point of my OP. You still haven't read the references, or you would not have made that statement.

Why can't you just accept that other people believe different than you do, and never-the-less their belief carries the same validity as yours ?
So Altenweg believes in God without the Christian "hocus pocus".

SO WHAT ??? WHY NOT ???

You can not prove using OSE that your views are "the one and only truth". All you have is BELIEF.

:>)

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

You're kidding, right? To do what you seem to demand would be voluminous, and I don't have the time to research and put together that much material for someone who would not read it. I'm sure that there are web sites that have it all there for the looking. Help yourself. And you still haven't read the references yet, have you? I'll be happy to explain how to look them up, if you like.

The point is you say this research has already been done, yet have no proof of it being done. You take it on faith that it was done. The truth is that it wasn't, that there is no evidence other than the bible for the supernatural portions of the bible.

And there you have it, folks. The Bible bashers demand proof that the Bible is anything more than fiction. When proof is offered, they will not even read it. Then they demand proof of the proof, which would then be rejected with the demand for more proof.
I didn't post this to change their minds, it was posted to EXPOSE their shallow unwillingness to even consider anything supernatural. The next time the wrecking crew shows up on your thread, just remember how they danced around any actual discussion. Oh, and guys, thanks for helping me with this illustration.
Finis!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

When proof is offered,

Your proof is called circular logic: the proof the bible is true is in the bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

And there you have it, folks. The Bible bashers demand proof that the Bible is anything more than fiction. When proof is offered, they will not even read it. Then they demand proof of the proof, which would then be rejected with the demand for more proof.
I didn't post this to change their minds, it was posted to EXPOSE their shallow unwillingness to even consider anything supernatural. The next time the wrecking crew shows up on your thread, just remember how they danced around any actual discussion. Oh, and guys, thanks for helping me with this illustration.
Finis!

How very Christ-like of you! You, sir, are a model Christian!

:rolleyes:

Firstly, Galveston, your attitude is yet another reason I don't go to church or read the bible. It's people like you I've dealt with my entire life, and I'm done.

So, we are shallow, unwilling, not willing to consider anything supernatural. I do believe in God, why does that automatically mean that I have to accept the bible? It's a man written book, men are and always will be fallible. The bible is proof of nothing. If I wrote a book and in the book I predict something and then later wrote that my prediction came true, would you believe me? Of course not, you'd want proof.

I don't need proof that God exists, I believe that he does, and until someone can prove that he doesn't, I will believe, it's my God given right! But the bible, no, I've read it, over and over and over again, it's not proof of anything.

We tried to discuss things, but when I came and told you why I don't believe, you poo pooed all over me, just like the Christians I went to school with.

Do you honestly think that we are going to look up all the quotes that you posted? Come one, I have a life, kids, a husband, a household to run, I don't have that kind of time, nor am I willing to waste that kind of time on bible quotes. I say again, I've read it, and that's why I don't believe it.

So, I'll just take my shallow unwilling self and keep believing in my God, because obviously he's a different God then the one you believe in.

Wow, just when I think I might have judged the Christians of my youth too harshly...