Ask Me Help Desk - What is good about religion ?

What is good about religion ?

I found this comment and link on the Internet, and I agree with both of them :

Sometimes the religious bigotry that one encounters day-to-day can seem overwhelming. Then one stumbles upon a little gem such as this. YouTube publisher 'patcondell' delights rationally thinking audiences with his video titled "What's Good About Religion? "

I hope you enjoy this as much as I have. He makes some wonderful points and I am particularly fond of his remark as follows:

“This is supposed to be a positive video and I don't want to ruin it by dwelling on the negative things, the selective reasoning, the wishful thinking and the shameless abandonment of personal responsibility that religious belief embraces.”

Enjoy Pat Condell, he is a wellknown and valued commentator and his audio's and video's are short (6 minutes) and non-aggressive , though clearly making a point.

Your reactions are welcome !

Link to : What is good about religion ?

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Cred, I tried to view it but I couldn't, my computer wouldn't open the link. :(

I'll do a Google search and comment later, if I can find it on Google. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

the selective reasoning, the wishful thinking and the shameless abandonment of personal responsibility that religious belief embraces.”

What on earth makes you believe people who have a relationship with Jesus Christ are automatically guilty of any of those things?

Interesting.

I was however going to answer the question this way, before I knew it was really not a question but a link to this instead.

1. It gives an individual someone/thing (the devil) to blame their bad behavior on.
2. It gives an individual someone/thing (God) to ask for help or forgiveness.

It would seem that my opinion is in line with the author, as it is a way to sort of shift, if even only slightly, away from personal responsibility, for things that happen in an individuals life, giving them the devil to blame, and God to help or forgive.

Funny Cred

I'll paraphrase : I like Christianity because it is not Islam. But a negative... it is Christianity. :)

Buddism: you have to love a religion without a God :)

----------------------------------------

As to your quote - I'm not quite sure what religion that is but,

As a Christian:

It takes personal responsibility to aknowledge that I am a sinner. I can't be "good" enough on my own to meet God's standard [ Matthew 5 ], maybe my own much lower standard but not His.

I rely on God's grace and mercy for forgiveness.

The NT is full of teachings about a Christ followers responsibility to the poor the widows, the orphans the sick, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, reply with good to fight evil etc... wonderful things! :D

I don't know which religion you are aiming at, as there are literally millions, with less, but still many that are fairly well known. Jesus Christ is not a religion, so I assume you are not referring to Him? Right?

Okay, I finally got to see it, darn computer. ;)

I liked it, found him to be very funny, still have a smile on my face, and after all "laughter is the best medicine". :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tawnynkids

What on earth makes you believe people who have a relationship with Jesus Christ are automatically guilty of any of those things?

Please read the topic starter post again : where did I state that "people who have a relationship with Jesus Christ are automatically guilty of any of those things?"??

Note that only the first and last 2 lines are from me. The rest is quoted from the website where I found the link. With these words I fully agree.

With your twisted words I do not agree at all.

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

....The NT is full of teachings about a Christ followers responsibility to the poor the widows, the orphans the sick, turn the other cheek, love your enemy, reply with good to fight evil etc... wonderful things!

Sure. But also full of "if not, than ....", full of hell and damnation, of burning into eternity, etc.
And the first part of the bible - the OT - is full of violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. all condoned - if not supported and incited - by that same deity in the NT.

Your deity is not exactly Nobel peace price material...

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Okay, I finally got to see it, darn computer.

Glad to see you made it in the end, and that you liked it.
There are about another 30 audio and video articles from Pat Condell, almost all of the same high quality of content, argumentation, and tolerance, and still at the same time making excellent points to ponder for all...

:)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Sure. But also full of "if not, than ....", full of hell and damnation, of burning into eternity, etc.
And the first part of the bible - the OT - is full of violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. , all condoned - if not supported and incited - by that same deity in the NT.

Your deity is not exactly Nobel peace price material ....

:rolleyes:

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True Cred

The OT also has David, an adulterer, a murderer, [ of course he takes responsibility Psalm 51 ] but still considered God's own child.

The God I believe in also is merciful and forgiving. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

True Cred. The OT also has David, an adulterer, a murderer, [ of course he takes responsibility Psalm 51 ] but still considered God's own child. The God I believe in also is merciful and forgiving.

Nevertheless please explain me where all this negativism in the OT and even in the NT is coming from. How can a "perfect" entity condone, support, and even incite all that violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc.?

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Nevertheless please explain me where all this negativism in the OT and even in the NT is coming from. How can a "perfect" entity condone, support, and even incite all that violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. ???

:rolleyes:

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How can we even ponder to answer that question when we are far from "all knowing or understanding" This side of Heaven and meeting our maker we cannot answer these questions BUT

What about what Jesus Christ did for us, all sinners, when He died on the cross so that we could have eternal life. It is a supreme gift, that is IF you believe in a afterlife and God for that matter.

The video was tolerable because he was speaking about organized religion and not a personal relationship with our Savior and Creator. Organized religion is no doubt way off the mark in many different ways but the Bible says 'that Christ is the church and we are his hands and feet" it doesn't say the warehouse down the street that pushes catholisicm is the real church. I also find it interesting that his very last comment on the video is a supremely wise passage from the... Bible.

I propose we follow the teachings in the Bible and understand the Truth within it and leave the precepts of organized religion alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Nevertheless please explain me where all this negativism in the OT and even in the NT is coming from. How can a "perfect" entity condone, support, and even incite all that violence, murder, hatred, kidnapping, slavery, etc. ???

:rolleyes:

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You are blaming the wrong "entity". You attribute to the Creator those acts done by a lesser "entity", i.e. Satan. Since you wrote it, that constitutes libel. You are going to NEED am attorney licensed to practice before God's bar of justice. May I recommend the best?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

You are blaming the wrong "entity". You attribute to the Creator those acts done by a lesser "entity", ie, Satan. Since you wrote it, that constitutes libel. You are going to NEED am attorney licensed to practice before God's bar of justice. May I recommend the best?

A "perfect" entity (God) is claimed to have created people and satan and everything else.
And as a "perfect" creator God can only create perfect things. If they create imperfect things the creator can not have been perfect itself to start with.

:)

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Quote:

Lexington Herald-Leader : Crusading ex-Pa. lawmaker takes in sex offenders

Tom Armstrong said he is drawing on his religious belief in forgiveness and sheltering the three men until he can open a halfway house for sex offenders...

Over the past two decades, he also took in homeless veterans, and more recently he has been a mentor to ex-cons...

Verse from Jeremiah: "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sin no more."

This caught my eye, because it shows "the good" of someone acting on his faith.

I am not as courageuos, but I admire the person that can do the tough things that the Bible [ the Christian religion ] asks us to do. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

This caught my eye, because it shows "the good" of someone acting on his faith. I am not as courageuos, but I admire the person that can do the tough things that the Bible [ the Christian religion ] asks us to do.

Nobody suggests everything about religion is bad.
But how "good" is religion actually ?
And is Christianity in that respect any different than any other religion? Or Secular Humanism?

:rolleyes:

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How do you define "good."

What is good about religion was your original question. I gave you an example.

You can look up all the Christian charities and hospitals - I'll leave that leg work up to you.

I, as a Christian, am only concerned with God's description of "good" - Read the book of Romans, or Galatians or James or 1 John.

Also Christianity is about salvation - that is the "ultimate good."

Do secular humanists have a "salvation" equivalent?

Do secular humanists have an "ideal" behavior? What if you can't meet those standards?
Are these ideals and standards the same among secular humanists?

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

What is good about religion was your original question. I gave you an example. You can look up all the Christian charities and hospitals - I'll leave that leg work up to you.

With the US society claiming in great majority to be Christian, it is not surprising that the majority of such organizations are Christian. So that is no argument, as I never stated that Christians as group are "no good". I asked in the last post : how "good" is religion actually ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

I, as a Christian, am only concerned with God's description of "good"...

So your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be right. I am concerned with the reality, with the question if religions are "good" or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

Also Christianity is about salvation - that is the "ultimate good."

So again : your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be good. (Salvation is a religious claim). Also you BELIEVE that salvation is the "ultimate good." But is salvation more than just a belief, and is it the "ultimate good."??

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

Do secular humanists have a "salvation" equivalent?

No they don't, because they do not see any need for "salvation" as reality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

Do secular humanists have an "ideal" behavior? what if you can't meet those standards?

The golden rule. Appliable to everyone and valid as such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

Are these ideals and standards the same among secular humanists?

Should be. I see no reason to think differently. Note : not every non-believer is an Atheist. Not every Atheist is a Secular Humanist. Please use capitals to describe these groups of world views. I do my best to use capitals to describe religions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

How do you define "good."

Easy to ask, difficult to answer. "Good" in the sense as appropriate on the Religious Discussion Board is based on the intention not to harm others deliberately.
The golden rule says it all : "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you."
And anyone who seriously has that intention is "good", though never "perfect".

:rolleyes:

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Not sure where Cred gets his version of the golden rule, as it is from the negative, which is consistent with several religions. What Jesus said differs in that it is totally positive.

Matt 7:12
12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
(KJV)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Not sure where Cred gets his version of the golden rule, as it is from the negative, which is consistent with several religions. What Jesus said differs in that it is totally positive.

The golden rule as source of moral and ethical thinking already existed a long time in many societies, long before Jesus was born. Whatever twist Jesus gave to his version of the golden rule is totally irrelevant.

All that is important with the golden rule is the principle and the result. Not if it is suggested in a positive or negative way.

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

With the US society claiming in great majority to be Christian, it is not surprising that the majority of such organizations are Christian. So that is no argument, as I never stated that Christians as group are "no good". I asked in the last post : how "good" is religion actually ?

So your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be right. I am concerned with the reality, with the question if religions are "good" or not.

The belief and reality of Christianity is tied to God. If we could be "good" to our own definition or to the world's standard, there is no need for God's salvation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

So again : your are concerned with what you BELIEVE to be good. (Salvation is a religious claim). Also you BELIEVE that salvation is the "ultimate good." But is salvation more than just a belief, and is it the "ultimate good."??

To this Christian it is :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

No they don't, because they do not see any need for "salvation" as reality.

So it is not a big deal, except to one's own sense of righteousness, whether one actually always complies with the "golden rule."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The golden rule. Appliable to everyone and valid as such.

Should be. I see no reason to think differently. Note : not every non-believer is an Atheist. Not every Atheist is a Secular Humanist. Please use capitals to describe these groups of world views. I do my best to use capitals to describe religions.

Easy to ask, difficult to answer. "Good" in the sense as appropriate on the Religious Discussion Board is based on the intention not to harm others deliberately.
The golden rule says it all : "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you."
And anyone who seriously has that intention is "good", though never "perfect".

:rolleyes:

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With no standard or absolute truth, the Golden Rule is only what you believe and expect others to follow :confused: . This is the same as the Religion of the "golde rule" wanting others to believe and act as the Religion of the "golden rule" dictates.:)

How about to the masochist or the substance addicted?

Or to the rascist, who might see someone different from themselves as NOT equal to "themselves?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The golden rule says it all : "do not do to others what you do not want to be done to you."

This leaves "sins of ommission" out of the equation.

To feed the hungry, care for the ill, visit prisoners etc...

Did you also mean to include...

Quote:

Ethic of reciprocity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Matthew 7:12
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

The belief and reality of Christianity is tied to God. etc., etc., etc.

Please note : you can make your replies as long as you want. I'll only read as far as stamina allows, and I'll only reply to the essence of your posts from now. So if you want me to reply to what you want to say, please keep it short and to the point. Your habit of increasing the size of your replies beyond anything realistic when you fail to have real arguments/answers causes your posts to become rather uninteresting.

There is no OSE to assume reality for Christianity and/or God's existence.

All claims made about God, Creation, Perfection, Sin, Salvation, Truth, Heaven, Hell, Satan, etc. etc. etc. : all of these are based on religious claims, not on Objective Supported Evidence. They can therefore not be considered as reality, and therefore not as base for logical conclusions.

:rolleyes:

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What's good about Religion? Well, what's good about universities? What's good about schools?

Religion is your base, no matter what faith you are, It teaches, it guides, it provides knowledge and understanding. Similar to the concept of schools. Religion and faith, can be, if allowed, complicated.

I am Roman Catholic, and going to church, strenghtens my belief and reminds me, that the only thing truly important is the love of God and others.

I read somewhere on a different thread that Roman Catholics do not have a one on one relationship with God. That could not be further from the truth. I pray and speak to God daily... Just He and I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allheart

Religion is your base, no matter what faith you are, It teaches, it guides, it provides knowledge and understanding.

That may be so to you. But is does not have to be that way. All Secular Humanists prove that, as their views can not be seen as religious. And nobody can say they "have not been to school".

So your reply does not really answers the question "what is good about religion", but more what you feel that is good for you.

:)

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I'll try to answer the question Cred, even though everyone knows by now where I stand on organized religion.

I think that, for most people, religion is a place to congregate with like minded people and discuss the things they all agree on. It is nice to have you beliefs confirmed by others, to have a sense of belonging. We all want people to agree with what we say, what we believe, and that is something religion provides.

Most churches are run by decent priests and they are filled with good, kind, caring people. Of course there are always exceptions, seems I've encountered most of them in my life. ;)

Obviously for me church, organized religion is not something I will ever embrace. I want the right to question things, to base my beliefs on things other than the bible and the word of one priest. I want to feel free to believe in things not written in the bible, because I've seen too much evidence that not everything in the bible is true. I want to explore the world around me, go down other roads to discover different points of view, to learn different things, most religions don't allow that, it's their way or the highway.

For most religion brings comfort, for me it brings unrest, even anger. Most people tell me that I just haven't found the right church yet, or the right religion, that I should keep looking. These people look at me, at my beliefs and think that I'm a soul without a body, or perhaps a body without a soul. I'm not either of those things. I am proof that you don't need religion or church in order to have faith, maybe that scares some people, it must, otherwise why the need to fit me into a mold?

For those that find happiness in their chosen relgion, the bible, their beliefs, well I think that's great. For those that love their church the people they congregate with, that's good. For those that feel the need to convert everyone to their beliefs, why? The world would be a better place if everyone could just accept others for who and what they are, for their beliefs.

I don't know if that answers your question Cred, but hopefully it's close. :)

I have to go kill flies now. ;)

Going to church, for me, is like going to His house and thanking Him. And to be very honest, it's the place I feel the safest, a love that is undescribable, a joy, that's hard not to share, and helps to open my heart even more, to those, who don't think like me, who don't look like me, who don't even like me, but yet, there is great love.

It is an uplifiting experience where a true peace exsist. No horns honking, no anger, no hurt, no pain, but a true reality, that all that is real, is love in our hearts for one another, no matter what religion, or lack of religion they practice.

There is no politics - there is no she said, he said, I am right, you are not, but just peaceful sincere reflection and peaceful smiles.

Music that touches your soul and words that you can carry with you, for the rest of the week and longer.

A realization that we all are human with faults and for each of us to work on our own faults,and not try and look at someone else faults.

It's a place to feel and know you truly are unconditionally loved, faults and all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

... We all want people to agree with what we say, what we believe, and that is something religion provides.

Well : that may be for some. Personally I do not care if one agrees with my views or not. From me one may believe whatever he/she prefers. To me it is much more important if one is tolerant to other people's views !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

... I want the right to question things ...

Actually than you can not believe in a religious sense. Spiritual thinking is based on unquestioned acceptions. You for instance ACCEPT that a deity called God exist. Without ever being able to really question it's existence. On what OSE would you be able to base God's existence ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I am proof that you don't need religion or church in order to have faith, maybe that scares some people, it must, otherwise why the need to fit me into a mold? ... For those that find happiness in their chosen relgion, the bible, their beliefs, well I think that's great.

Good points!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

For those that feel the need to convert everyone to their beliefs, why?

For some it's part of their mission. But that mission does not state anything about doing that against the will of the "victim".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

The world would be a better place if everyone could just accept others for who and what they are, for their beliefs.

Hear, hear, hear!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I don't know if that answers your question Cred, but hopefully it's close. I have to go kill flies now.

Close enough ! :)
Without you having to obey to nr. 6 (RCC=5) of the Ten Commandments : have a succesfull hunt !

:D :D :D :D :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allheart

Going to church, for me, is like going to His house and thanking Him.

Fine for you. Thank you for that explanation of your position.
But I intended the question more as : What is good about religion for humanity???

I know that religion did/does a lot of good things. But we have all to admit that it also did/does a lot of terrible things. Hence my question.

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Fine for you. Thank you for that explanation of your position.
But I intended the question more as : What is good about religion for humanity???

I know that religion did/does a lot of good things. But we have all to admit that it also did/does a lot of terrible things. Hence my question.

:rolleyes:

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If we all followed the two greatest commandest in the Bible "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF" that in my opinion would benefit humanity more significantly than anything else. Take time to unconditional love and accept without judgement everyone that you come across every day, and THAT outside of these debates on theology would make the greatest impact on humanity!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountain_man

If we all followed the two greatest commandest in the Bible "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF" that in my opinion would benefit humanity more significantly than anything else.

What a pity that the majority of Christians don't seem to know that, or deliberately seem to ignore that second commandment you mentioned : "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"...

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

What a pity that the majority of Christians don't seem to know that, or deliberately seem to ignore that second commandment you mentioned : "LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF"...

:rolleyes:

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I agree it is a pity...