At my work place there are certain individuals including myself that are discussion God and all aspects of God. The thing is this one person is a non believer, is angry and mad at God. Now he is open to debating and discussing but at what point does a Christian stop explaining or stop debating or stop discussing. The thing is I am at a belief, that you should share with others personal beliefs and show them what God means to you but at what point do you just walk away? See I know many people get turned off by somebody trying to hit them over the head and being forceful in their beliefs. I do know that some people will argue about everything and also divert the conversation into so many different directions and we see that here on the boards as well. I believe that sharing, and discussing is fine but there is a certain point where you need to leave it be and let the person decide for themselves whether God exists to them or not. This person also whether this person realizes it or not insulted the name of God and Jesus. Yet thinking it was funny and laughing about it, but no one ever insulted this persons beliefs or non beliefs.

What to do? Your advice? Your opinions? Also have anybody ever experienced this yourself whether it be with a neighbour, friend, school, work??

Thank you in advanced and I hope that this will develop into a positive feedback, with positive results.

I think sharing, discussing, living and answering questions when asked is enough.
When it gets to debating it is vain and futile.
The Bible even says something about not to debate over scriptures

Well that is the thing. I am fairly quiet and just jump in to say something that I think is very important. That is all. I do not continue.

There is this other person that talks and talks and debates and debates. This person thinks they are doing their part in bringing this other person to God, or even believing in God.

When I say that I am done, does not mean I am giving up just means that it is never ending argument that is not going anywhere for anybody.

It is not really a debate about scriptures but I guess in a way it is considering the bible comes up a lot.

That is how I feel too. If something leads me into a question about my belief, or sharing, discussing, living and answering questions as you put it. I feel that is enough. I am not going to force it though.

Thank you for your post.

Sounds like they do not know where the Bible leaves of and their personality takes over.
For example, stubborn to make their point even to the point of turning others off/away.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

There is this other person that talks and talks and debates and debates. This person thinks they are doing their part in bringing this other person to God, or even believing in God.

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You are exactly right. That Christian is doing everything possible to turn off any unsure person or non-believer.

I work with Hindus and Muslims and Christians and agnostics. I have found that the "soft answer" works the best, especially if you can turn it around and restate the question or statement and then ask a pertinent question. "I hear you saying there is no God. Is there any particular reason you believe that?" Then he might make comments about how could a loving God allow evil in the world, and you say something like, "Yes, that's certainly hard to believe, that God would allow that. If there is a God, I wonder what his thinking could be." And then get into free will from there. The main thing is to acknowledge what the other person says--not that you agree, but that it's a good point or certainly something to think about.

Regarding the person who takes over the discussion and rams home his beliefs--that's annoying to everyone, Christian or not. You can't outshout him. Maybe the soft answer will work with him too, and then add, "Let's hear what X is thinking about that." Meanwhile, this is a learning experience for all of you, even the Christians learning what each other and what the non-Christians believe--a broadening experience. The more you know about what the other guy believes, the better you can come up with those soft answers.

You have to recognize these discussions for what they are.. "bull sessions"... not anyplace where anyone is interested in another person's opinion... just a place to quibble and nit-pick and argue.

There is no reason for you to participate... this is no place to attempt to sway a non-believer.

I had a neighbor that seemed open to talk. It turned into debate. He would bring up questions and I would give Biblical answers, only to have it turn to other questions.

Jesus encounters this in John 4 with the woman at the well. For every natural point that she brought up, Jesus gave a spiritual answer. She then turned it back to natural questions/ arguments. This is a great example of how He used the natural world to get to the heart and the spiritual. If you just stay in the natural with someone, you cannot get to their heart. Logic will not accept faith. Only the heart in the spiritual can accept faith. Pray for a way to turn to the heart of the person.

Why are there religion discussions in the workplace to begin with? I think that's where the problem begins. A person should be able to go his/her workplace without worring if his/her personal religion is offensive to someone. Where I work discussing religion can get a date with HR.

Yeah if this guy is being a nuisance to others Christian or otherwise I am sure they could post a new policy of no politics or religion talked about in the work place as NK was saying.
If the non believers really are interested they know who to go to and who not to go to on their time off work. Maybe you could offer that if they ever have any questions you and he could go to lunch together. As wondergirl said guys like that turn off Christians just as much

Sounds like the Christians are ganging up on the non-believer.

ONE is. JH said the non believer is open but one Christian is being a problem

I am not ganging up on the non believer at all. The non believer is open but one christian seems to dominate the discussions. Thank you for making it clearer Nohelp4u.

Nk, as far as work. We work in a pretty close open environment and pretty much able to say what we want with each other. Pretty much everybody works well with each other. I just do not like the approach that some people have as far as religion and God goes.

To answer your original post, I think there is no point discussing with non-believers of God who he have heard about God before.

The principles of believers and non-believers is comparable to helix. Sometimes, their insights agree with each other; most of the time, not.

I know how it feels when you heard something bad about God but you have to endure the afflictions. This time, not treat poison with poison. Remember what Jesus said in John 16:33:

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Cheer up; logically speaking (Pascal's wager), it's not your lost after all.

Joe, I'm going to admit, from the get go, that I have not read the entire thread, although I did "review" it. However, I was raised to believe that you never discuss politics or religion with anyone outside of your family.

I was raised Catholic and I work for Baptist Health Care Systems, and live in the bible belt (very few catholics here). We have different viewpoints. When discussions arise, I just listen and don't have much input. I will say, though, that when they start "preaching" (as it sounds like your co-worker is) what they were raised on and I was raised on something different, I either turn a deaf ear, or, if it's excessive, I get defensive. I don't want someone else's beliefs pushed on me, and that is very common in my locality.

When these discussions arise, I politely excuse myself and go back to my work. Just because they believe something different than I do doesn't mean they are wrong. And when it comes to religion, there really is no right or wrong.

Hi JH76... no matter what the argument or discussion there is always one person who won't let it drop, they have to have the last word, especially if they think they are losing the argument.
I would just put my opinion and walk away... it drives them mad, they've no where to go.

If I were you JH, I would keep away from religious and political arguments in the work place, especially from people who insult your beliefs, unless they can agree and appreciate that we all have our own oppinions that are not necessarily the same but equally valid.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

At my work place there are certain individuals including myself that are discussion God and all aspects of God.

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Extremely bad idea to do that... A workplace is there to work. Churches are there to participate in religious communication... You should be fired after one warning for discussing religion at work... Don't you people have anything else to do there?

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

The thing is this one person is a non believer, is angry and mad at God

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Why would a NON-believer be angry at a deity that he/she does not even believe in? This makes no sense at all!! What a preposterous topic story...

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Extremely bad idea to do that .... A workplace is there to work. Churches are there to participate in religious communication ..... You should be fired after one warning for discussing religion at work ..... Don't you people have anything else to do there?


Why would a NON-believer be angry at a deity that he/she does not even believe in? This makes no sense at all !!! What a preposterous topic story .....

:rolleyes:

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It is mostly this other believer and non believer that are always at it with each other, but for me I think that it was not a good idea but I would jump in occasionally if asked. This non believer, is an angry and mad for whatever reason. At the same time, I think they both realize that the discussions are going no where, and these people actually both gave it a rest. I do not think it will come up again.

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

I do not think it will come up again.

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Than why bring it up here as a new topic, Joe ?

:rolleyes:

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When I have had enough of someone's BS, I just leave, no matter the subject. Having said that, I have been know to argue for the sake of it. Either way, its best not to take someone else's bad behavior (in my view) personally.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Than why bring it up here as a new topic, Joe ?

:rolleyes:

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Your exactly like the non believer at work. Taking the topic discussions and turning into something completely different. I put this topic under discussions and I got a lot of great answers. Whether it is new or old does not matter. What is important is that it has been resolved, I hope.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

When I have had enough of someones BS, I just leave, no matter the subject. Having said that, I have been know to argue for the sake of it. Either way, its best not to take someone elses bad behavior (in my view) personally.

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Thank you Tal, I felt like telling them both to stop to be honest, but they both argued themselves to boredom and gave up on it. Thank God (;

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I think sharing, discussing, living and answering questions when asked is enough

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How can that possibly be enough? If you truly, really believe that people are going to spend eternity in hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ, then it is your obligation to preach to everyone you ever meet for the rest of your life! It's the least you could do.

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

How can that possibly be enough? If you truly, really believe that people are gonna spend eternity in hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ, then it is your obligation to preach to everyone you ever meet for the rest of your life! It's the least you could do.

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Remember the scriptures where Jesus himself has said. Go to different towns and share the news. If they refuse, then dust the dirt off your feet and walk away and move on to the next home or next town.

Senseless arguments and disagreements with continue pressuring the point of Gods existence. If somebody continues to ignore and there unwilling to being preached at. That is there personal choice. To continue debating and pushing beliefs on somebody will only make the situation worse and unbelief stronger.

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

How can that possibly be enough? If you truly, really believe that people are gonna spend eternity in hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ, then it is your obligation to preach to everyone you ever meet for the rest of your life! It's the least you could do.

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I MEANT in his work place!

You say If you truly, really believe that people are going to spend eternity in hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ, then it is your obligation to preach to everyone you ever meet for the rest of your life! It's the least you could do.
BUT then it is a damned if you do damned if you don't thing where people use the excuse that they do not believe because they can't see them Proselytizing.
What is the use of being obligated to preach to people who repeatedly insist they do not want to hear it. Sometimes all you can do is what seems right at the right time and the right place.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You are exactly right. That Christian is doing everything possible to turn off any unsure person or non-believer.

I work with Hindus and Muslims and Christians and agnostics. I have found that the "soft answer" works the best, especially if you can turn it around and restate the question or statement and then ask a pertinent question. "I hear you saying there is no God. Is there any particular reason you believe that?" Then he might make comments about how could a loving God allow evil in the world, and you say something like, "Yes, that's certainly hard to believe, that God would allow that. If there is a God, I wonder what his thinking could be." And then get into free will from there. The main thing is to acknowledge what the other person says--not that you agree, but that it's a good point or certainly something to think about.

Regarding the person who takes over the discussion and rams home his beliefs--that's annoying to everyone, Christian or not. You can't outshout him. Maybe the soft answer will work with him too, and then add, "Let's hear what X is thinking about that." Meanwhile, this is a learning experience for all of you, even the Christians learning what each other and what the non-Christians believe--a broadening experience. The more you know about what the other guy believes, the better you can come up with those soft answers.

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This is an appropriate and good method Wondergirl... good response. I would have given you a greenie but it wouldn't allow me. Stringer

EDIT: It seems that some on this desk also take every opportunity to argue and get angry even at the mention of religion, to the point of hatred. I am not offering an opinion here on the subject other than what I said above concerning the method that Wondergirl mentioned. A method that works in other types of discussions also.

I have read many threads/posts on these religious discussions and have seen outright abhorrence towards any discussion on the matter.

Just as these people complain about religious persons promulgating their views, I see where the opposite is true also, no question.

Again, I am offering no opinions on the subject matter, only the attacking nature of some of our members. In all fairness, it isn't and shouldn't be necessary or allowed.

Stringer

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Originally Posted by Joe

Your exactly like the non believer at work. Taking the topic discussions and turning into something completely different. I put this topic under discussions and I got a lot of great answers. Whether it is new or old does not matter. What is important is that it has been resolved, I hope.

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I thought the same, not that I know the non-believer at your work but, I am used to Credo's responses, and somehow guessed what you'd be answering.

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Originally Posted by Stringer

Again, I am offering no opinions on the subject matter, only the attacking nature of some of our members. In all fairness, it isn't and shouldn't be necessary or allowed.

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True, I've seen that also. But, here it comes, it is an open board and everyone can post any comment he/she likes, lol.

Well, Joe, I hope that your problem has been solved. I think that if you cannot persuade someone, and you've got as far as you could go, then, stop trying to make him believe what he doesn't want to.

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Originally Posted by Stringer
Again, I am offering no opinions on the subject matter, only the attacking nature of some of our members. In all fairness, it isn't and shouldn't be necessary or allowed.

"True, i've seen that also. But, here it comes, it is an open board and everyone can post any comment he/she likes, lol."

I find this a somewhat surprising comment Unky, but point made. Then I suppose it is me, I am just not a "search and destroy" type of person, I was raised quite differently. This will be my last comment on this matter. Throwing the ball back to you Joe.

Stringer

Since when did zeal take the place of good manners, or common courtesy? No religion has a lock on either.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Since when did zeal take the place of good manners, or common courtesy?? No religion has a lock on either.

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Thanks Tal, that was my point, in my simple opinion (even though I said I would not comment further on this) "good manners" are definitely and apparently a skill...

Joe,

You're a sweet kind man. Never worry or be concerned about trying to convince someone of God's love. Some, the more you want to share, will only put on higher walls, and mock, just as this person has done, as a defense mechanism.

All you need to do, is smile, both on your face and in your heart, let this person know how much you do love God and would want this person to know the joy of God's love. And then, no, you don't walk away, in your quiet moments, your pray for this person, and let God do the rest. And there is nothing stronger then God's love, nothing more powerful, and miracles He can create.

God just depends on us, to show and give love to other's and be a loving example. He doesn't want to burden us, with a job, that may be just for Him :).

Have peace in your heart always, and I'm so thankful to know such a kind soul :).

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Originally Posted by Stringer

Then I suppose it is me, I am just not a "search and destroy" type of person, I was raised quite differently.

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But no, but no, I was not talking of you, Stringer. But of Crendendovis ( or whatever). If you've seen all the topics where he posted his annoying, insignificant comments...

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Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Remember the scriptures where Jesus himself has said. Go to different towns and share the news. If they refuse, then dust the dirt off your feet and walk away and move on to the next home or next town.

Senseless arguments and disagreements with continue pressuring the point of Gods existence. If somebody continues to ignore and there unwilling to being preached at. That is there personal choice. To continue debating and pushing beliefs on somebody will only make the situation worse and unbelief stronger.

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I don't know... It doesn't seem right to me. If you were unwittingly about to enter a building that had a bomb about to go off, I'd do everything I could to warn you and stop you from doing so. Christians make hell seem like a far worse scenario than a building with a bomb. So I don't understand it. It's almost like, "Ha,ha.. You have wrong information and you're going to hell! While we'll all be in heaven".

Again, if you REALLY believe in the concept of heaven and hell, I don't think it can be trivialized. You should be standing on street corners with signs and doing everything within your individual power to get the word out. Not just preachers, but every Christian should be doing this. It's too important not to. Unless of course, you really don't care that aprox. 2/3 of the world's population is going to burn in hell for eternity.

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Originally Posted by lobrobster

Again, if you REALLY believe in the concept of heaven and hell, I don't think it can be trivialized. You should be standing on street corners with signs and doing everything within your individual power to get the word out. Not just preachers, but every Christian should be doing this. It's too important not to. Unless of course, you really don't care that aprox. 2/3 of the world's population is going to burn in hell for eternity.

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Again that seems hard to believe an atheist claiming this whenever the fact is that when Christians DO do that the atheists start crying ''jamming it down our throat proselytizing''.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Again that seems hard to believe an atheist claiming this whenever the fact is that when Christians DO do that the atheists start crying ''jamming it down our throat proselytizing''.

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It's not the 'jamming down our throat' that's bothersome. It's the backing up of what one says through the use of logic. That's where the problem comes in. I have no issue with someone trying to save me. If fact, I'm appreciative that someone cares enough to do so. But invariably, we get down to logical conjecture based on real evidence. That's when it gets ugly and when the one doing the preaching gets in a huff.

Maybe to you but to many people they do not even want to hear Jesus, God, Christian or anything else come from a Christians lips.
Glad to hear that you are open to hearing about God and the Bible. :D

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Maybe to you but to many people they do not even want to hear Jesus, God, Christian or anything else come from a Christians lips.
Glad to hear that you are open to hearing about God and the Bible. :D

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As long as it goes both ways. The religious seem to think they have a monopoly and exclusive right on influencing people's lives! The concept of atheism needs to be promoted much more than it currently is, then people can make their own minds up and nobody is going to stop them or harass them over their decision. I'm all for a balanced free thinking society.

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Originally Posted by Unknown008

But no, but no, i was not talking of you, Stringer. But of Crendendovis ( or whatever). If you've seen all the topics where he posted his annoying, insignificant comments...

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K... Gotcha... :)

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

As long as it goes both ways. The religious seem to think they have a monopoly and exclusive right on influencing people's lives!

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Actually, I would change this slightly... It is in thinking they have a monopoly on the *truth* that gets people of other faiths and no faiths worked up. Thinking to have answers that no one can possibly know. God's will, what happens after death, how the universe got started, etc. And some atheists are not beyond this type of arrogance either. Many claim to *know* there is no god, or life after death, etc. I find this frustrating on all sides. We can reach differing assessments based on available info, but we should never claim to know for certain that which is unknowable. In my opinion.

Many people are uncomfortable with things that don't make sense to them. Religion for some people just doesn't make sense. IT makes them angry to think they have to BELIEVE something in order to be SAVED or given eternal life. I guess in a way its about questioning authority "WHO SAYS I HAVE TO BELIEVE THAT TO BE A GOOD PERSON, WHATS WITH ALL THE RULES AND REGULATIONS??" Some people believe in what they can see and nothing else. Does it make their existence or life less meaningful? MAybe to those that do believe in an after life. BUT even so, isn't that their right to think and believe what they choose. WHY else would we have so many religions, because not everyone can agree on the same principles, beliefs, customs, obligations and rules.

People are so interesting. They get so emotionally invested in making sure that others see the world as they do. I don't personally see anything wrong with discussing religion, politics, or any other subject, but then again everything was up for debate at the dinner table growing up. We didn't always agree and sometimes we argued but in the end, differences of opinion and respecting differences, are critical to our well being and to our personal growth. We must be able to learn from others and grow, that doesn't mean we have to agree about everything. That is how new opinions and perspectives are formed.

JOE _I don't think you are wrong with sharing your views with those that want to learn or listen or just share their perspective. IT is good to let others know what you believe and share that love of God in your heart. AS long as you aren't trying to persuade people to BELIEVE AS YOU DO. Not everyone wants to hear the bible being quoted in order to support their proof that one religion is correct.

MOST OF ALL, if you are a kind and loving person like YOU are JOE.. than most people will not take offense to what you say. You don't shove your beliefs down people's throats but you are proud of what you have come to understand as your truth and you want to share with those around around you. I can respect that. JUST understand that even though this perspective is completely true to you, doesn't mean others will view it that way. So, if they get defensive, angry or critical of what you are saying, means they feel like you are trying to change their mind about what they believe. IT doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to listen with respect but maybe they cannot internalize it because it just doesn't make sense to them.

Basically, share with those that are questioning, asking, wanting to listen and share and for those that are lost along their way and with others that are resistant, JUST let them be and love them and pray for them from a distance.. Maybe their spiritual growth isn't supposed to occur right now and it isn't our place to try and push them where they are not ready to go.

You have a lot of love and wisdom to share and many people who love and appreciate you for that, do not think it goes wasted on deaf ears because for some, you are saying what they need to hear.

As someone who believes in a creator who exists not only among us, but within us, I personally feel we are all made up of God and if we all treated each other as such, there wouldn't be so much hatred and evil in the world.. (Religion not included)

'nother greenie shattered soul :D