Ask Me Help Desk - Secular Humanism

Secular Humanism

The Council for Secular Humanism is the * leading organization for non-religious people. A not-for-profit educational association, the Council supports a wide range of activities to meet the needs of people who find meaning and value in life without looking to a god.

Secular Humanism is a way of thinking and living that aims to bring out the best in people so that all people can have the best in life. Secular humanists reject supernatural and authoritarian beliefs. They affirm that we must take responsibility for our own lives and the communities and world in which we live. Secular humanism emphasizes reason and scientific inquiry, individual freedom and responsibility, human values and compassion, and the need for tolerance and cooperation.

(Ref link : Council for Secular Humanism)

Some people here on this board claim Secular Humanism to be a religion.
The above statement by the Council for Secular Humanism clearly state differently.

Any comments?

.

Note :

* The link refers to the North America's Council for Secular Humanism.

Well obviously if it was a religion it would be sacred humanism, not secular humanism. Try to avoid splitting up into sects and warring factions over this though. That would be bad for you.

Hello Cred:

Of course I got a comment. Have you ever known me to keep my mouth shut?

I suppose I could be described as a secular humanist. I could also be described as just a plain old atheist. Then others might describe me as a non believing Jew. I could be any of those, or I could be none.

What I AM, is a non believer in religion. It doesn't take a group of people banned together for me to be what I am. As a matter of fact, what I am is an anathema to any organized group. In fact, the more organized a group is, the more religious is looks.

This council has books. I spells out a way of thinking that it says "brings out the best in people". It "serves the needs of non religious people". It has conferences and seminars...

In short, it walks like a church, and quacks like a church, all the while saying that it's not a church.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Cred:Of course I got a comment. Have you ever known me to keep my mouth shut?

No, not really! Never actually! Thanks for your views!

:D

===

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildandblue

Well obviously if it was a religion it would be sacred humanism, not secular humanism.

Thanks for your reaction!

:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

This council has books. I spells out a way of thinking that it says "brings out the best in people". It "serves the needs of non religious people". It has conferences and seminars...

In short, it walks like a church, and quacks like a church, all the while saying that it's not a church.

Looky - it even wants your money like a church Council for Secular Humanism

Hello again,

Even though THIS organization might or might not BE a church, it doesn't make secular humanisim a religion, any more than an understanding of evolution makes someone a scientist.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

.... it doesn't make secular humanisim a religion, any more than an understanding of evolution makes someone a scientist.

Indeed!!

"The most critical irony in dealing with Modern Humanism is the inability of its advocates to agree on whether or not this worldview is religious. Those who see it as philosophy are the Secular Humanists while those who see it as religion are Religious Humanists. This dispute has been going on since the early years of this century when the secular and religious traditions converged and brought Modern Humanism into existence."

Fred Edwords in "What Is Humanism?" (1989)

:rolleyes:

In that regard, it is very "religious."

How many doctrinal issues and splits have their been in Christianity?

Quote:

Council Activities Include

Championing the Rights and Beliefs of Secular Humanists
The Council for Secular Humanism campaigns for a more secular and ethical society. It presents the case for understanding the world without reference to a god, and works to separate Church and State and defend the rights of people who do not accept religious beliefs.

So the belief is non-belief in God. ;)

Quote:

Giving a Moral and Intellectual Lead
The Council for Secular Humanism promotes rational, human-based viewpoints on important social and ethical issues. In particular, it tackles issues where traditional religion obstructs the right to self-determination, for example, freedom of choice in sexual relationships. Reproduction, and voluntary euthanasia. The Council also promotes critical thinking about supernatural and paranormal claims. The Council conducts research, issues statements, and brings together leading thinkers for conferences and seminars.

Hmm... moral and intellectual lead... this is what you are suppose to believe and how you are to think... sounds religious to me.

Just giving you a hard time Cred

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

So the belief is non-belief in God

Not really. It is based on the lack of objective supported evidence for the existence of god.
The religious claims that god exists and that god is the creator has still not been objectively proved by any theist, so why should a Secular Humanist assume that to be "true"? The default is that nothing "is" until proven. No "belief" involved or required !

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthebox

Hmm... moral and intellectual lead...this is what you are suppose to believe and how you are to think...sounds religious to me

There is a clear difference between general belief (as in for instance moral-ethical, philosophical, and/or political views) and supra-natural claims. Only the last ones can be called religious.

:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

As a matter of fact, what I am is an anathema to any organized group. In fact, the more organized a group is, the more religious is looks.

Yeah, it's been my experience that people in groups behave about the same no matter what the stated purpose of the group is. I think you're right. If the essence of religion is to emphasize the difference between US and THEM, most organizations would qualify.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

If the essence of religion is to emphasize the difference between US and THEM, most organizations would qualify.

But that is not the essence of religion.
It guess that the true essence of religion is the inner need by most people for the feeling of security , the hope on seeing back all those who we loved and have fallen away during out lifetime, and to counter the fear for the unknown, specially for death.

:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

But that is not the essence of religion.
It guess that the true essence of religion is the inner need by most people for the feeling of security , the hope on seeing back all those who we loved and have fallen away during out lifetime, and to counter the fear for the unknown, specially for death.

:rolleyes:

Nah, it's the need to feel special, chosen, one of the elect. Just about any organization will do. Mensa is one of the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ordinaryguy

Nah, it's the need to feel special, chosen, one of the elect. Just about any organization will do. Mensa is one of the best.

Not true. I have been Mensa member for many years. I have no need to feel special. I feel not chosen. I feel not elected. And surely no members I know feel their Mensa membership as something religious or related to religion.

:rolleyes:

Mensa, demensia who cares. Is there a secret handshake? How about a club tie? That will bring them in.

ASPCA is always looking for members. They could use the extra money to help all the animals that they take in. They will send you a really cool sticker to put on your car.
They make me feel real special, never make me feel stoopid or tell me I'm going to hell :eek:. You never have to attend a meeting.
ASPCA: Register

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildandblue

Mensa, demensia who cares. Is there a secret handshake? How bout a club tie? That will bring them in.

How about Densa, for people with low IQ's? It would put the "special" in "Special Education".

And since ther're more of us than there are of them, we rule!

I have been a Secular Humanist for about a year and a half-officially and declared. I do "belong" to Paul Kurtz's organization; he is one of my favorite human beings, I just love him.

One of the big problems of secular humanist groups is that it is very difficult to get non-god believers to agree on anything! There are always differences on issues and values because everyone thinks for him or herself. Your general summary does apply to all secular humanist, and I thank you for posting. :)

Anyway, since Secular Humanism rules out the Supernatural, it really isn't a religion. It is barely even a club or group! In AMerica, lots of Secular Humanists fly under the radar by going to church... only for business reasons, in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The Council for Secular Humanism is the * leading organization for non-religious people. A not-for-profit educational association, the Council supports a wide range of activities to meet the needs of people who find meaning and value in life without looking to a god.

Secular Humanism is a way of thinking and living that aims to bring out the best in people so that all people can have the best in life. Secular humanists reject supernatural and authoritarian beliefs. They affirm that we must take responsibility for our own lives and the communities and world in which we live. Secular humanism emphasizes reason and scientific inquiry, individual freedom and responsibility, human values and compassion, and the need for tolerance and cooperation.

(Ref link : Council for Secular Humanism)

Some people here on this board claim Secular Humanism to be a religion.
The above statement by the Council for Secular Humanism clearly state differently.

Any comments?

.

Note :

* The link refers to the North America's Council for Secular Humanism.

How many types of humanism are there and what makes "secular" humanism superior to the others?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The Council for Secular Humanism is the * leading organization for non-religious people. A not-for-profit educational association, the Council supports a wide range of activities to meet the needs of people who find meaning and value in life without looking to a god.

Secular Humanism is a way of thinking and living that aims to bring out the best in people so that all people can have the best in life. Secular humanists reject supernatural and authoritarian beliefs. They affirm that we must take responsibility for our own lives and the communities and world in which we live. Secular humanism emphasizes reason and scientific inquiry, individual freedom and responsibility, human values and compassion, and the need for tolerance and cooperation.

(Ref link : Council for Secular Humanism)

Some people here on this board claim Secular Humanism to be a religion.
The above statement by the Council for Secular Humanism clearly state differently.

Any comments?

.

Note :

* The link refers to the North America's Council for Secular Humanism.

The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, which means believing in everything that is real.
Church of Reality

What relationship does this Church of Reality hold with the Council of Secular Humanism?
Church of Reality

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

How many types of humanism are there and what makes "secular" humanism superior to the others?

There are Secular Humanists and Religious Humanists. Two rather different views, that share certain similarities.
There is no cause to suggest any superiority for either view. Just a different approach within the Humanistic world view. Similar to the views that Baptists (Protestants) and Roman Catholics share and divide. Both are Christians, but have major differences in their religious views.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, which means believing in everything that is real. What relationship does this Church of Reality hold with the Council of Secular Humanism?

I would never ask Baptists to defend or support the views of Roman Catholics or any other religious views than their own.
The "Church of Reality" website represents people who support the views posted there.
The Council of Secular Humanism is not responsible for the views people within the "Church of Reality" may have, even when some of their views may show similarities.
Just like certain similar views Baptists and Roman Catholics share do not make them responsible for the specific views of the other !

:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

There are Secular Humanists and Religious Humanists. Two rather different views, that share certain similarities.
There is no cause to suggest any superiority for either view. Just a different approach within the Humanistic world view. Similar to the views that Baptists (Protestants) and Roman Catholics share and divide. Both are Christians, but have major differences in their religious views.

I would never ask Baptists to defend or support the views of Roman Catholics or any other religious views than their own.
The "Church of Reality" website represents people who support the views posted there.
The Council of Secular Humanism is not responsible for the views people within the "Church of Reality" may have, even when some of their views may show similarities.
Just like certain similar views Baptists and Roman Catholics share do not make them responsible for the specific views of the other !

:rolleyes:

I didn't ask you to defend their beliefs. I just asked you how they were related.
:rolleyes:

However, since they claim to share your beliefs, why wouldn't you be able to defend them? There are many views which Baptists and Catholics have in common and I when I defend one I defend the other, because they are one and the same.

Anyway, you mean that the Council and the Church are not the same entity nor related in any way.

The only reason I was curious is because they share or at least refer to secular humanism beliefs yet the Church claims to be a religion. And you say that secular humanism is not a religion.

So, would it be fair to say that some people who believe as secular humanists believe do consider their beliefs to constitute a religion?

Sincerely,

De Maria

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The Council for Secular Humanism is the * leading organization for non-religious people.

What is the difference between the Council and these atheist organizations:

American Atheists

Atheist Alliance International

And why is this council superior to them? Or what does the word "leading organization" mean if not superior in some way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

So, would it be fair to say that some people who believe as secular humanists believe do consider their beliefs to constitute a religion?

Hello again, De Maria:

Sure. And, that means what, exactly?? Some Christians believe in starving their children instead of seeking medical help for them. Am I to draw a conclusion about Christians from THAT?

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, De Maria:

Sure. And, that means what, exactly??

Excon

Am I ruffling your feathers excon?

It's a simple question. I guess your answer to the question is "sure".

Quote:

Some Christians believe in starving their children instead of seeking medical help for them. Am I to draw a conclusion about Christians from THAT?

I believe this has been discussed in another thread. Perhaps you could refer to the answers you received in that thread. Otherwise, this is about secular humanism and since I've heard a great deal about this but I don't quite understand the difference between that and simple atheism, I'll stick to this subject, if you don't mind. And even if you do.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Hello again, De Maria:

You are slipperier than a snake. But, your rope a dope defense don't phase me none.

YOU are apparently attempting to make some conclusion about secular humanists from the action of ONE secular humanist. I wondered WHAT conclusion that might be??

You didn't say. You attack me instead. Maybe there ISN'T a conclusion to be drawn from the actions of a single individual, as YOU are suggesting. To bolster my claim, I suggested that there isn't ANY conclusion to be gained from ONE really bonkers Christian.

Then you have cojones to suggest that I stick with the subject?? You don't have a clue what the subject is... But, I'll continue to reveal your slipperiness and your hypocrisies. That's my JOB.

excon

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

However, since they claim to share your beliefs, why wouldn't you be able to defend them?

What a nonsense! Why should I defend the opinions of others? Get real !

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

The only reason I was curious is because they share or at least refer to secular humanism beliefs yet the Church claims to be a religion. And you say that secular humanism is not a religion.

Secular Humanism is indeed not a religion. What the people in that "Church" believe or not believe is their "business", not mine!

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

So, would it be fair to say that some people who believe as secular humanists believe do consider their beliefs to constitute a religion?

No, incorrect. Secular Humanists do not (religious) believe. Religious Humanists do.

·

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

What a nonsense! Why should I defend the opinions of others? Get real !

I was pretty sure they listed secular humanism beliefs as their own. But maybe I didn't understand. We can move on.

Quote:

Secular Humanism is indeed not a religion. What the people in that "Church" believe or not believe is their "business", not mine!

Quote:

No, incorrect. Secular Humanists do not (religious) believe. Religious Humanists do.

·

Gotcha! You have nothing to do with that Church.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

I was pretty sure they listed secular humanism beliefs as their own. But maybe I didn't understand.

The belief in God and Jesus Christ are (should be) common to all Christians.
Still the RCC and other Christians (say for instance Protestants) are not defending each others specific views.
So why should I defend the ideas of others who support the Secular Humanist views?
Just ask me on my views in respect to Secular Humanism. And do not try to wiggle out or sidestep issues as soon as you notice that you lack any true valid arguments !

:rolleyes:

·

De Mensia! We rule! I'm a little sleep deprived. If I could turn back time, if I could find a waaaay!

Hello wild:

I've been accused of demensia before. Does that count?

excon

Yeas SH is a religion SCOTUS declared it so and we know they are never wrong. Torcaso v. Watkins

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

yeas SH is a religion SCOTUS declared it so and we know they are never wrong. Torcaso v. Watkins

Tomder : I do not give a cent for your local laws. We are talking here about something that stands far above whatever these politically appointed judges decide on local issues in your country.
Religious Humanism has certain religious features embedded in their world view.
Secular Humanism certainly has no such features of any kind as part of their world view.

But of course you are free to SPECIFY whatever you (and those involved in that court decision) ASSUME to be support for the claim Secular Humanism to be a religion.

:rolleyes:

·

I guess the sarcasm in my reply wasn't obvious enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

I guess the sarcasm in my reply wasn't obvious enough.

Not at all. But I know you and your ways now already for about 8 years on different boards, and I know when to ignore your acidic and conceited remarks and when to reply in a responsive way related strictly to the subject.
I even wondered why you even condescend to follow a lead on Secular Humanism : not religious and very liberal - if not "left wing"... What is this world coming to if even you show up here ?

:D

·

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello wild:

I've been accused of demensia before. Does that count?

excon

Yeah, we'll let you in. But don't tell the others, or we'll need a bigger social hall.:eek:

Credo, come on over from the dark side already. You know we're right. Our plan doesn't even need a giant rogue comet, Cause if all the land is in one piece on the sunny side of the street the ocean would be one big snowball on the dark side. Start that baby turning and you're in for a flood of Biblical proportions. You know the photosynthetic process known as the dark reactions doesn't actually need darkness. With eternal sunlight all those biological reactions would take half as much time. THEY have known this for years... haven't THEY been telling us the key to a lot of the world's problems is in saving the Amazon rainforests? Those are daylength neutral plants that are not reliant on darkness. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildandblue

Credo, come on ....

Are you really serious ? Your post seems to be posted while you were under the influence of "mind stimulating products"... With all respect : what a total nonsense...

:rolleyes:

·

Yes I'm serious. And just High on life, my friend. You remind me a lot of St. Paul, do you know that? How he persecuted the early Church until he suddenly saw the light. And look what a pillar of the Church he turned out to be, because he wasn't a poor fisherman but a scholarly man. He wrote nearly half of the New Testament by himself.

Look, you can have a comet if you really want one. Since this was in the past I don't see any reason to argue for or against in order to have faith. We can't change the past, just who we are and where we're going.