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I'm not really posting this to debate further what is already in a couple of other threads... but I WOULD like to know what particular scriptures are always being used to justify the anti-gay feeling in Christianity.
The ONLY story I can come up with is the story of Sodom and Gamorrah--so someone please help me out here.
Romans chapter one
but as I said people label 'sin' in degrees such as stealing is a lesser sin than killing.
Not so much that all sins are equal because obviously killing is worse than stealing a piece of candy
BUT the issue is more like you believe God or you do not.
If you do not believe then it doesn't matter to you if you please him with your actions/behaviors.
God's intent is husband and wife anything out side of marriage God considers sin.
The Bible says we all fall short.
Basically 'sin' is a result of our hearts not being right with God and therefore we follow
what the Bible calls the lusts of the flesh. So it isn't so much the sin as our hearts not right with God in the first place.
Where are your quotation marks and chapter and verse?
Sorry I hadn't looked it up to post yet.
Romans 1
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Basically God calls the marriage between a man and a woman holy and sanctified
Anything else --adultery, fornication, homosexuality he calls sin.
1 Corinthians 6:9 (Read all of 1 Corinthians 6)
Or don't you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't be deceived. Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
How relevant is this verse to your query? http://www.christnotes.org/images/ra...rating_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gifhttp://www.christnotes.org/images/rating/star_off.gif
1 Timothy 1:10 (Read all of 1 Timothy 1)
For the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;
I have just included two from the new testement, to show that it includes it after Christ. The bible is very very clear that homosexual behavior is not acceptable, and those doing it will not be saved.
So to further this, any of the make believe Christians who want to be gay and say they are christians are not really since they deny the very teachings of the bible.
Thanks, Sapph!
These are not Jesus' words; they are words of a former pharisee and his follower, Tim.
Let's see some of Jesus Christ's words, after all it is Christianity, not Judaism-Revised.
How about Repent and be baptised. So knowing it is a sin, they need to repent, Jesus loves them and will accept them all back after they repent
Thanks, you.
I have some reading to do, now :)
WHERE in the Bible are the scriptures about homosexuality?
What value has that knowledge, when we know that the Bible content is (mis)used to support even the wildest and worst claims, while "Commandments" are skipped by believers as they feel needed...
When will believers become themselves examples providing value to the content of the Bible in their thinking and deeds ?
:rolleyes:
Because * in my opinion** some of the homosexuals are still looking for a moral justification and want to be able to claim that the bible does not forbide it.
** not saying this is any of these posters agenda,
I would like Chapter and Verse of where Jesus teaches/speaks against homosexuality, Chuck.
Thanks,
With all respect, but reading back this and other topics on the subject, it is hardly moral justification homosexuals seek for their personal sexual preference, but much more questioning why - specifically orthodox hard-core - Christians are so eager to condemn homosexuality as moraly wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Just belief in God and/or the Bible is not sufficient for that, as all Christians have besides their belief also a brain that can be used to (in)validate their own intolerant position towards homosexuals.
:rolleyes:
But for a Christian and it should be for all, the bible is the final word, the guideline to compare behavior to and the way of life for us to follow.
The bible is not and can never be just one item used, it is the deciding factor when other things disagree.
As for Jesus, the bible says in many places, the bible being inspired by God, you either accept God's word or you don't.
So, Jesus never said anything about homosexuality.
For a Christian it should be. And you BELIEVE it should be for all...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
:D
Where some of the disciples not rather "funny" guys ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Choux
:rolleyes:
I am sure Peter had a lot of great jobs about the shepherd and the tax collector, but no if they were gay or homosexual at any point they would have repented from that sin as they did all the old sin in their life, but no we are not told that was any of their sin, but other sexual sin, such as a harlot is addressed.
You are sure... Based on WHAT ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
;)
There entire Bible, every word is "The Word of God" and since Jesus is God, those are His words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choux
I guess it is the state of California issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals that have stirred up recent threads. I was watching the news last night and they showed a couple going in a courthouse (in San Francisco, I suppose). A female protestor screamed at them "God Hates You!" It would have been comical if it hadn't been so pathetic. These kind of Christians end up defeating their own cause.
Emland that is sooo funny. I bet her pastor is real proud of her.
Quite the contrary.. The Bible does not teach that Homosexualy is any more sinful than fornication, stealing, adultery or any othere sin. Therefore a Homosexual's sin is not special. The Bible teaches us to love ALL people inculding homos. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bushg
Sassy, I hope you're one of those people that also believes that birth control is bad (no spilling your seed on the ground), polygamy is okay (Didn't Jacob have two wives?), incest is okay (Lot's daughters seduced him and were not struck down by god, even though Lot's wife was turned to a pillar of salt for just looking over her shoulder), stoning women for being unfaithful is okay, etc etc etc.
If the whole Bible is the word of Jesus because it's the word of God, well.. then I bet YOU don't obey a lot a rules in the Bible that are JUST as important as not being homosexual.
So... stop throwing stones until you get rid of your own sin.
[no.. I am not i think birth control is great! Nothing wrong with it.Quote:
QUOTE=Synnen]Sassy, I hope you're one of those people that also believes that birth control is bad (no spilling your seed on the ground),
Polygamy according to my beliefs is not okay. Just because the Bible says Jacob had two wives does not mean God condoned it. The Bible is a story about a perfect God working with and through imperfect people.Quote:
polygamy is okay (Didn't Jacob have two wives?)
The bible also says Noah got drunk, so does that mean the Bible condones getting drunk. Certainly not.
Again, just because the Bible describes historical events of the sinful nature of man does not mean that it is in anyway trying to promote such behavior. Yes the Bible does say there were a group a men that wanted to stone a woman caught in adulterey, however it goes on to say that Jesus(GOD) said to those men "let he that is without sin cast the first stone" signifying that behavior was not acceptable. So please don't just take a few excerpts from the bible, convieniently taken out of context, to further propagate your false views.Quote:
, incest is okay (Lot's daughters seduced him and were not struck down by god, even though Lot's wife was turned to a pillar of salt for just looking over her shoulder), stoning women for being unfaithful is okay, etc etc etc.
Yes you are right! I am just as Guilty... i am not perfect and my sin is not any better than that of a Homosexual and that is what i said in my previous post so i don't know what you are breaking my bals about... :confused:Quote:
If the whole Bible is the word of Jesus because it's the word of God, well.. then I bet YOU don't obey a lot a rules in the Bible that are JUST as important as not being homosexual.
You have balls?Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
The difference, Sassy, is that homosexuals are not trying to make YOU live according to THEIR religion.
But... that's a different topic.
THIS topic is about where the Bible states that homosexuality is wrong, and I believe I've gotten several great answers about that.
[QUOTE]Synnen, can you answer this question for me please, just yes or noQuote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Do you think people should be allowed to marry their dog/pet?
No, I don't.
But the REASON I don't think that is because the dog/pet can't CONSENT.
You really just don't get that point, do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
So... you don't think a person should be allowed to marry their dog... Is that because your religion says so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
no.. I didn't think so, so I don't see why you (and other supporters of gay marriage) have been accusing me of imposing my "religious" beliefs on the matter. I told you before, I don't support gay marriage, not because of my religion but just because I don't see it as something that should be considered valid in the same way you don't think people marrying animals should be valid, independent of your religious beliefs.
Sassy... again... THIS thread is not for that discussion.
Take it back to the other thread.
I was looking for concrete information in this thread, and since it's MY question, I will just close it if you persist.
Take this discussion to your OWN thread if you want to play like that. I'm NOT pulling THIS thread off-topic.
Okey...Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
You are very out of line and also off subject, first there is a differnece between things being told and things being right in the bible and you know that difference, so you are saying untrue things trying to make a unrealistic point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
1. actual birth control is not really mentioned in the bible, masturbation is but is more addressed as to following a command than the actual act.
2. yes, the bible does not say anything about pural marriage being wrong expect for church leaders. So no christian can use the bible to say anything against pural marriage. I personally think a man would be crazy one is too many some days.
3. What jacobs daughters did was wrong, it was shown as wrong when they did it, a lot of the Old testement is the history of the Hewbrew people along with there relationship with God, So the bad and evil men do is often shown, to show that God will forgive them for their sins.
Synnen-
I did a lot of reading back when I was Christian and struggling with my sexuality. After a lot of research regarding the original language in which the Bible was written, how things were translated, the context of different verses which are used to condemn homosexuality... it really had me questioning the validity of the verses used against us.
I'll look for some of the websites and post links here if I can find them.
Here's a basic list of some info from Dignity.com, a GLBT Catholic website. But I think I can find you more, if you want. Just let me know.
-The story of Sodom in Genesis 19 is about offense against the sacred duty of hospitality. That is how Ezekiel 16:48-49 and Wisdom 9:13-14 interpret this text. The attempted male rape only heightens the atrocity of this offense.
-Leviticus 18:22 does forbid male-male sex as an "abomination." But the word simply means an impurity or a religious taboo — like eating pork. As in the case of Catholics who used to be forbidden under pain of mortal sin to eat meat on Friday, the offense was not in the act itself but in the betrayal of one's religion. The ancient Jews were to avoid practices common among the unclean Gentiles.
-Romans 1:27 mentions men having relations with men. But the terms used to describe them are "dishonorable" and "shameless." These refer deliberately to social disapproval, not to ethical condemnation. Moreover, according to Paul's usage, different from the prevalent Stoic philosophy of the day, para physin ("unnatural") would best be translated "atypical" or "beyond the ordinary." So it bears no reference to natural law. And it can imply no ethical condemnation because in Romans 11:24 God is said to act para physin. Paul sees gay sex as an impurity (see Rm. 1:24), just like uncircumcision or eating forbidden foods. He mentions it to make the main point of his letter, that purity requirements of the Jewish Law are not relevant in Christ Jesus. See L. William Countryman, Dirt, Greed, and Sex.
-1 Corinthians 6:9-10 and 1 Timothy 1:8-10 list arsenokoitai among those who will be excluded from the Reign of God. This obscure term has been translated "homosexuals" but its exact meaning is debated. It certainly does not include women but only some kind of male sexual offenders. If it does refer to men having sex with men — which is dubious — it must be interpreted in light of the abuse and licentiousness commonly associated with male-male sex in the Roman Empire. See Robin Scroggs, The New Testament and Homosexuality.
-Finally, Genesis 1-3 shows Adam and Eve created for mutual companionship and procreation. These accounts use the most standard of human relationships to teach a religious lesson. The point is the love and wisdom of God, who made all things good and wills us no evil. Nothing suggests the biblical authors intended a lesson on sexual orientation.
Also, if you're interested, I'm in the process of reading a really interesting book, 'The Church and the Homosexual' by John J. McNeill. You might be interested in taking a look at that, and you can probably get it online for pretty cheap.
Hope that helps a little.
Not exactly what I was looking for, but all I could find right now- hopefully I'll have more for you later.
HOMOSEXUALITY - WHAT THE BIBLE R
There's also a wikipedia article about it with a pretty lengthy discussion to read through- just came across it now, never seen it before, but it may have more info for you- it's called 'The Bible and Homosexuality'
Yes, those that want to re-write the meaning of the bible do question it and attempt to justify it, but it is simply not true. This is one of the issues we have against them, they are trying to force their beliefs on the church
As opposed to the people that believe in the church that try to force their beliefs on others? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
In a way, I am glad there is currently a thread in reference to this subject matter, as in some of my previous post, I may have given the impression that I don't cherish God's word, the bible. I do.
I struggle so much between right and wrong and voicing to someone that they are doing something unfavorable to God, as I myself am a sinner and the manner in which some in society voices such negativity to one group of people, always disturbs me and it is my opinion, not reflecting God's love in any way. In fact, it can turn many away from God.
What I don't understand, is the bible states all sins and also reads clearly to love one another, to turn the other cheek, to not judge.
Why is there so much hostility to the Gay community, and yet, there are never any threads or discussions about Child molestation - a disgraceful disgusting sin? Or murder, or infedility? But two people who love each other, truly and with all their hearts, whether right or wrong, and again, we here have no idea what makes someone Gay, is verbally burned at the stake.
I am not saying all who believe in God and love God, do these harsh things, because they don't, there are many who love all sinners and sincerely want them to turn away from the sin, but there are some, that demonstrate what equates to hatred, and to me, that is far from God's plan.
Sorry Synn - hope I am not off topic, it's not my intention, and glad you did initiate the thread.
That is a correct statement. But that brings us to those who do all that "judging"...Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
It seems to me that the majority of those showing so much hatred and intolerance all around them are conservative strict Christians.
What drives these people to do that? Can we blamed that on the Bible ? Or on the believers themselves ?
Again - staying within the confinement of the question - why are so many conservative Christians so full of hatred and intolerance against homosexuality?
Nobody is telling or asking them to become gay, is it not? And where in the Bible are the scriptures involving homosexuality that instruct those who believe the Bible to be God's words to show so much hatred and intolerance for gays? As far as I know the Bible says that the "final judgment" is done by God...
:rolleyes:
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