But that's EXACTLY how the Bible says our minds are to be as we read it -- simple, uncluttered with complicated calculations and expectations, i.e. read it with the mind of a child.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
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But that's EXACTLY how the Bible says our minds are to be as we read it -- simple, uncluttered with complicated calculations and expectations, i.e. read it with the mind of a child.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Not a problem at al..Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Am I misrepresenting myself?Quote:
P.S. Notice my avatar name is HeadStrongBoy. So at least I'm not misrepresenting myself.
ITSTUDENT2006
ITstudent= I am a student of Information Technology, do I go to school? No, I graduated but being a student in the aspect that I am continually learning.
2006= I graduated in 2006..
You see testosterone filled manhood? I see a man who sees through your faulty formulas, words, and disguise and doesn't refrain from pointing this out to you or to anybody. I call it like I see it, take it or leave it!Quote:
I don't claim to be in the same league of testosterone filled manhood as yourself.
P.S. What is your opinion on evolution and the actual evidence provided by science.
Much as I'd love to answer that, I do not have a concise reply ready for you. I also am learning much new information from the Bible as I progress in my walk. Though I believe I have a somewhat intuitive grasp of the issue of the opening of the seals without having filled in every last detail yet.Quote:
Synnen: I still don't understand what events constitute the opening of the seals.
In a nutshell, I believe the scientific evidence is open to interpretation. I'm inclined to believe that the Earth and the whole universe is no older than 13,022 years and about 10.5 months. Everything else must fit into that time framework. Otherwise Mr.Camping's time-line of history falls apart.Quote:
ITstudent2006:P.S. What is your opinion on evolution and the actual evidence provided by science.
How'd you do that ? P.S. the 'U' in Uber needs an umlaut. It's German, and it's pronounced UEBER. Uber means 'super' as in superior.
I don't write the title they are autogenerated by this website. I studied german for a while but didn't use it much after my Europe travels so I'm quite familiar with the umlaut.
To embed a video you have to go into the Advanced posting feature and use the Youtube feature; then it's a matter of inserting the YouTube ID between the tags.
Your point of view might be the correct one IF the verses you're referring to (Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14, and Luke 18:16) were the only ones that refer to the kingdom of heaven, and to the state of mind of believers. But unfortunately for you, they are not the only ones. The Bible is literally chock full of many other passages that explicitly teach the marvelous complexity of not only the physical creation but also of God's wonderful, mysterious, and multi-dimensional gospel. For example Romans 11:33. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out." Also Proverbs 4:7. "Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore get wisdom. And with all thy getting get understanding." And Proverbs 25:2. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing. But the honor of kings is to search out a matter."Quote:
HSB: the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds.
WG: But that's EXACTLY how the Bible says our minds are to be as we read it -- simple, uncluttered with complicated calculations and expectations, i.e. read it with the mind of a child.
One warning ONLY.
Keep it civil, or the BanHammer comes out.
And the Bible isn't?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
*greenie*Quote:
Originally Posted by itstudent2006
Goodness me ! What was the phraseology you used about following or not following the intent of your line of reasoning a few pages back ? You're doing the same thing again. Going off on a conclusion that suits your particular frame of mind, rather than verifying what the other person really meant.Quote:
HSB: But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds.
NK: Ah, so it's designed to be understood by small elite group. Gotcha.
Let me explain it this way. The whole Bible is published in almost every civilized nation on Earth that has the technology of the printing press. And the Bible is available almost every place on the planet that has book stores. Clearly God wants it to be available universally. And it practically is. In that sense every ordinary citizen who can afford the price of a Bible can have access to all the published truths of God. But let's look at Mark 4:11,12. "And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables. That seeing they may see and not perceive. And hearing they may hear, and not understand. Lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."
So... if you wish to call that elitism, please suit yourself. But the words are not mine. I only presented them for you to read. OK ?
Hello ? This is America. You personally are free to choose from a literal rainbow variety of churches, denominations, and interpretations galore. What is holding you back from enjoying that freedom ? Please, interpret to your heart's content. I certainly do not stand in your way.Quote:
HeadStrongBoy: In a nutshell, I believe the scientific evidence is open to interpretation..
ITstudent2006: And the Bible isn't?
You know what God wants? I know he didn't publish them and distribute them... the religious folk publish them and distribute them. Why? I don't know, I'm more of a Maxim, and Sports Illustrated follower myself! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
The truth is this. I asked you about evolution and you said that it was open for interpretation. How many ways can you interpret a 160,000 year old human skull? The damn things old, plain and simple! How can that be interpreted in any other way? Do you doubt radioisotopial studies? (it's scientifically proven to be accurate)
P.S. A lot older than 10,000 years and 10.5 months or whatever!
What's a *greenie*?Quote:
itstudent2006: and the bible isn't?
Synnen: *greenie*
Reading your quote above looks to me like you're having a conversation with yourself. Whatever !Quote:
HSB: And the Bible is available almost every place on the planet that has book stores. Clearly God wants it to be available universally. And it practically is.
ITstudent2006: You know what God wants? I know he didn't publish them and distribute them... the religious folk publish them and distribute them. Why? I don't know, I'm more of a Maxim, and Sports Illustrated follower myself! The truth is this. I asked you about evolution and you said that it was open for interpretation. How many ways can you interpret a 160,000 year skull? The damn things old, plain and simple! P.S. A lot older than 10,000 years and 10.5 months or whatever!
Yes I know some things that God wants. He clearly tells us many things He wants in the Bible. All you have to to is read them for yourself. But you're a Maxim and Sports Illustrated follower.
HSB-I am pretty sure you took IT's words out of context. He was referring to your assertion that God wants the bible to be universally available.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
And making personal attacks as opposed to attacking the argument itself is a type of fallacy. It's rightly named "Personal Attack", and doesn't strengthen your point.
I have to ask. If God wrote the bible so that his "people" could understand him and follow him, then why would he make it so impossible to understand? After all, he is God, he could have made the bible clear so that every "simple minded" person could understand exactly what he expects.Quote:
The answer is somewhat complex, in my opinion. But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds. After all the author is God Himself. Who could be more mysterious than the INFINITE God Himself to our tiny little minds ? But He has in these last days opened seven seals that make it possible to understand much more accurately IF we humbly follow His rules.
Instead we have this debate. One person quotes a scripture, and then another person quotes a different scripture, both contradicting each other. So who's right and who's wrong? Both quotes come from this all powerful bible written by God.
Also, not to nitpick, but wasn't the bible written by mortal men? If God wrote it he should be getting the credit for it, not 40 guys that apparently plagiarized his great work.
Forty guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Okay, maybe my Sunday school studies failed me, but was it not 40 men that wrote the bible? Apostles and prophets?
The exact number is unknown. We don't even know who some of the authors really were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
But the authors were men. Mortal men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
God didn't write a book. The bible wasn't written by God. That's probably why mere mortals can't agree about what the bible actually says. Too many authors, all with different versions of events.
I would think that if God wrote the bible then it would be very clear and easy to understand, not at all open to interpretation.
Yes. The Talmud, tractate Baba Bathra, gives the Rabbis' beliefs about who wrote the various books of the Hebrew Bible, but that's all speculation because many of the books, especially the historical books (Samuel, Kings, Chronicles) are anonymous. In the New Testament, the names given to the gospels are based on tradition; only John gives some kind of hint as to its author. And Hebrews is anonymous. It's sometimes attributed to Paul, but it has serious stylistic differences from Paul's known writings, so we really don't know who wrote it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Regards,
Peter Pedantic
"Holy men of God wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." I can look up its location, if you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
No, that's not why.Quote:
That's probably why mere mortals can't agree about what the bible actually says.
Not at all. There's only one version of most stories. The basic message of the Bible is clear. Even HSB gets that.Quote:
Too many authors, all with different versions of events.
And the books that were NOT added to the Canon, for whatever reason?
The Bible: Why Some Ancient Texts Were Excluded
How can you consider the Bible to be complete without the Gospel of Judas? And how can you consider the writings of Paul, the misogynist, to be greater than the Gospel of Mary Magdalene?
The Canon was chosen for popularity, political, and sociological reasons---NOT because some guys were more more blessed than others by God in having the wisdom to choose the right books. There are even some books that are REFERENCED in the Bible that are not in the Bible--though I can't remember the names of them offhand.
The link you provided says otherwise: Christian canons emerged through a complex process in which some books were "chosen" and others were left out. A tradition of use, authority within the communities, antiquity or apostolicity, and orthodoxy were factors in deciding which books were "in" and which were "out."Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Please list the books referenced in the Bible that were omitted from the canon(s). If there are such, I'm betting there's a good reason.
Dear lord. I don't even know where to begin.
Please start a new thread so Dave will see it (and I'll alert him). Thanks.
Depends really on who's bible we are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Quoted Reference:
Now on to some of the particular questions presented: First, every Catholic should have a Catholic version of the Bible. The King James Bible is the classic Protestant Bible, which was first printed in 1611 under the authority of King James I of England, the official head of the Church of England. The King James Bible follows the canon (or contents) established by Martin Luther in 1534 when he translated the Bible into German. He grouped what Catholics call "the seven deuterocanonical books" (Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, and I & II Maccabees) of the Old Testament under the title "Apocrypha" declaring, "These are books which are not held equal to the Sacred Scriptures and yet are useful and good for reading." (Keep in mind that these seven books had been accepted by the Church as part of the official canon of Sacred Scripture even prior to the legalization of Christianity; Luther on his own initiative tampered with the canon of Sacred Scripture.)
Ref:
Recommending a Catholic Bible
Actually, they were chosen based on authorship. The criterion was that the book had to have been written either by an apostle, such as Paul, or a companion of an apostle, such as Mark or Luke. The two gospels you mention were rejected because their authorship couldn't be verified; in the case of Judas, he really didn't have a chance to write anything, and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene is known from style and manuscript history to be a second or third century forgery. The basic guideline for selection to be in the canon was authenticity of authorship. That's why it took so long for some books such as 2 Peter and Revelation to be accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
And yes, the Bible does reference some books that aren't in the canon. Paul quotes a Greek poet in Acts 17, and Jude quotes the book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphical book from the inter-testamental period that was definitely NOT written by Enoch. But that really doesn't mean anything in terms of the authority of the Bible.
When I said the answer is somewhat complex, that was an understatement. From my perspective the important thing is not how much a particular individual understands about the Bible. If the main issue is my personal salvation, then I could be a new born baby with practically no understanding at all, and yet God can save me. I think we need to remember that God saves individuals, NOT groups of people. I get the distinct feeling that there's an idea that if we all could only get a consensus of the correct doctrine, then everything would be OK, and God would have to save all of us together. But that is not how He has designed His plan. In any case the conventional definition of understanding has to do with what we would call the intellect. But God is not limited to that particular definition. If you look up Solomon's request to God you'll see that he asked for an understanding "heart." The word heart as used in the Bible contains a spiritual element that transcends the merely intellectual.Quote:
HSB: The answer is somewhat complex, in my opinion. But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds. After all the author is God Himself. Who could be more mysterious than the INFINITE God Himself to our tiny little minds ? But He has in these last days opened seven seals that make it possible to understand much more accurately IF we humbly follow His rules.
Altenweg: I have to ask. If God wrote the bible so that his "people" could understand him and follow him, then why would he make it so impossible to understand? After all, he is God, he could have made the bible clear so that every "simple minded" person could understand exactly what he expects.
Synnen - There is no possible way you researched this ON YOUR OWN and came up with those conclusions on those "gospels". I suggest you spend a little less time watching the History channel and more time paying attention to actual scholars on the subject. Just because something has the word "Gospel" in front of it, does not mean it is anything close to a serious book.
Actually, you are wrong here. As she is Wiccan, she has had to spend many hours studying just to defend herself and her beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntinghelper
Oh please. I've been studying the Bible for about 20 years now, taking classes at both universities and through local churches. I've read each book in the Bible more than once, and I'm fascinated by the history the Bible portrays.Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntinghelper
If people want to talk further about the Bible and its history, I'd be happy to do so--but start another thread and point people to it, rather than further hijacking this one.
PS--I don't even WATCH TV. I watch probably ONE hour of television a YEAR. I don't have time, if I want to keep up with my reading and my education.
Hello Depressed in MO.
Only one book tells of the “time of the end.” That is the Bible. Its prophecies, for the most part, have their major fulfillment in the “time of the end.” Then an understanding of the prophecies would be available to truth seekers: “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.” Dan. 12:4, AS Lack of knowledge concerning the “time of the end” leads to death. How vital, then, to have the right answers to certain questions! What is to end? When will it end? How will it end? Who will end it?
Now let me answer each one of these questions above from the Bible.
What is to end?
The end of the world does not mean the destruction of our globe and of the material creations in the sky. It means the end of Satan the Devil's wicked organization invisible and visible. Some religions are part of his organization, although they claim to be the “house of God”. For this hypocrisy they will receive the severer judgment and will be the first part of this world to end.
(Matthew 25:31-33) 31 “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,
Not the literal earth but only the wicked will end.
(Psalm 104:5) 5 He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.
Jesus himself indicated that some people will survive the end. (Matthew 24:21, 22)
Failing human governments will end. God inspired the prophet Daniel to write: “The God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.”—Daniel 2:44.
War and pollution will end. Describing what God will do, Psalm 46:9 states: “He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons he burns in the fire.” The Bible also teaches that God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”—Revelation 11:18.
Crime and injustice will end. God's Word promises: “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.”—Proverbs 2:21, 22.
The Scriptures reveal that, when this wicked system comes to its end, those slain by God will certainly come to be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.” Jeremiah 25:33 But you do not have to be among the slain. In his Word the Bible God clearly states what kind of persons, systems and organizations will be destroyed
When Will the End Come?
“At an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.”—Matthew 24:44.
“Keep on the watch.. . Because you know neither the day nor the hour.”—Matthew 25:13.
“It will not be late.”—Habakkuk 2:3.
Yet, if any give a time or year, day or hour do not believe them, because the Bible states: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” Matthew 24:36
Jesus and his disciples did, however, foretell what conditions on earth would be like just before God brings the end. The end is imminent when all the following events are happening at the same time and on a global scale.
The bible indicates signs of the end but not any hour, day or year.
Sign Scripture Proof
1. World wars Matt. 24:7
2. Widespread food shortages Matt. 24:7
3. Unusual number of earthquakes Matt. 24:7
4. Sore pestilence and disease Luke 21:11
5. Persecution of Christians Luke 21:12-15
6. Many forsaking Christianity Matt. 24:12, 13
7. Formation of the League of
Nations and United Nations Rev. 13:14, 15; 17:11
8. Nations perplexed Luke 21:25
9. Increased lawlessness Matt. 24:12
10. Sleepy condition of the world
Despite the sign 1 Thess. 5:2, 6
11. Moral breakdown in public and
Private life 2 Tim. 3:1-4
12. Widespread juvenile delinquency 2 Tim. 3:2
13. People overly engaging in
Everyday affairs of life Matt. 24:37-39
14. World-wide preaching of the
Established kingdom as good news. Matt. 24:14
How will it end?
The eend of Satan and all wickedness will bring peace, joy, love, justice and good health, and everlasting life to those who serve God. No harm will come to them. Read these scriptures in your copy of the bible. They are so comforting.
▪ Peace and security will prevail because God promises to end all wars.—Psalm 46:9.
▪ There will be ample food for all.—Psalm 72:16.
▪ Health care will not be an issue because “no resident will say: 'I am sick.'”—Isaiah 33:24.
▪ Grieving will not be necessary, for “death will be no more.”—Revelation 21:4.
▪ God promises that his people will build their own houses, live in security, and “be joyful forever.”—Isaiah 65:17-24.
Who will end it?
God Almighty will!
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” Matthew 24:36
Thank you Hope12. This certainly gives me much hope :)
I wonder what HeadStrongBoy and M. Camping are doing in their final 9 days on earth?
NK-they (or at least HSB) believe that we've all already been pre-destined to go to Heaven or not, and nothing we do here is going to change that.
So... I'm guessing a big ol' drug binge.
Damn it, you made me laugh out loud in my office. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
Bahaha. I love a job well done.
Well... back to work...
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