JoeT

Well done Joe. There must be a huge multinational conspiracy in your mind.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Well done Joe. There must be a huge multinational conspiracy in your mind.

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No conspiracies. I just look at things with an illuminating light.

JoeT

For scientists all over the world to create "legends" as you put it would they have to conspire to hide the truth that God made everything?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

For scientists all over the world to create "legends" as you put it would they have to conspire to hide the truth that God made everything?

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Where's your sense of humor? Did you leave it in a test tube someplace?

JoeT

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

No Tom, not true.

Historical documents do not prove God's existence, no matter how much you want it to.

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This is the point. Before you even agree to see the evidence, you reject it because it disagrees with you.

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You see what you want to see, not what is factual.

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How do you know? You judge before seeing it. That is pre-judging, which was shortened to create the word "prejudice".

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

How is she misrepresenting your argument? You DO believe that that things are so complex that only a god could have created them; is that not correct?

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That is not what she said. Go back and read what she said.

And I did not say what you said either. Why don't you go find what I really said.

That what she you said earlier when you said it.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That what she you said earlier when you said it.

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Ooh ee ooh ah ah, ding dang walla walla bing bang.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

For scientists all over the world to create "legends" as you put it would they have to conspire to hide the truth that God made everything?

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Don’t take yourself too seriously; there may come a time when you find that you've put too much faith in yourself.

JoeT

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Don’t take yourself too seriously; there may come a time when you find that you've put too much faith in yourself.

JoeT

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Nothing wrong with putting faith in yourself , that's what I'm teaching my kids. The world is what you make of it, not dictated but an unseen being in the sky.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Nothing wrong with putting faith in yourself , that's what I'm teaching my kids. The world is what you make of it, not dictated but an unseen being in the sky.

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My comment was that we tend to put too much gravity and too much faith in ourselves. I would suggest that we teach our kids faith, hope, and charity. I wouldn’t say that the world is what you make of it; rather I’d suggest that life is what you make of it. God has already MADE the world, to conform to his purpose, for his plan.

“The difficulty of explaining "why I am a Catholic" is that there are ten thousand reasons all amounting to one reason: that Catholicism is true. I could fill all my space with separate sentences each beginning with the words, "It is the only thing that . . ." As, for instance, (1) It is the only thing that really prevents a sin from being a secret. (2) It is the only thing in which the superior cannot be superior; in the sense of supercilious. (3) It is the only thing that frees a man from the degrading slavery of being a child of his age. (4) It is the only thing that talks as if it were the truth; as if it were a real messenger refusing to tamper with a real message. (5) It is the only type of Christianity that really contains every type of man; even the respectable man. (6) It is the only large attempt to change the world from the inside; working through wills and not laws; and so on.” C. K. Chesterton


JoeT

Tom, I didn't reject your "evidence", I asked to see it, you haven't provided it. How can I determine whether it's factual if I haven't seen it?

My response to you was based on the fact that you won't supply these Historical documents. I have to assume that if you won't supply them that's because they either don't exist or they will not prove that you're correct.

So which is it?

I will read them with an open mind, but I will not search for them, I don't have the time. Since you already know what they are, it would be far easier for you to provide them so that I can read them.

Really, I don't know why this always has to be so difficult. If you have proof then why are you always so reluctant to share it?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Tom, I didn't reject your "evidence", I asked to see it, you haven't provided it. How can I determine whether it's factual if I haven't seen it?

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My point exactly - but yet you did exactly that, in more than one message. For example:

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No Tom, not true.

Historical documents do not prove God's existence, no matter how much you want it to.

You see what you want to see, not what is factual. If that's what you need in order to justify your belief, then fine.
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My response to you was based on the fact that you won't supply these Historical documents.

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Before I had a chance you said that you would reject historical document that supported Biblical prophecy. I never refused.

But on the other hand, I am preparing for a conference, and have a fair amount of work to do. Why would I want to waste time presenting evidence for someone who says that if it agrees with what I claimed, that she will reject it?

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

I would suggest that we teach our kids faith, hope, and charity.

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I do exactly that.

True Tom, I did say that, because even though I asked you wouldn't provide these historical documents, therefore I must assume that they aren't proof, otherwise wouldn't you supply them?

After all, it's your argument, if it's not one thing then it has to be the other, right? So, if you can't supply the proof, then it must not exist.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Tom, I didn't reject your "evidence", I asked to see it, you haven't provided it.

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Precisely. Tj3 NEVER provided any "evidence" (i.e. OSE) for any of his religious claims.
Tommy provided query after query, list after list, suggestion after suggestion, wild claim after wild claim, so just lots of Subjective Supported Evidence.
But NEVER has he provided OSE for any of his claims. - and I focus here on * the existence of "God" *.

As this topic is about "What is truth?" :

The Truth (in linguistics) is one and the same as factual data. What most people experience as true and as truth is some format of interpretation of data.
Any religious "truth" is a personal subjective supported view. It is about what people BELIEVE.
So far I have never seen any truth coming from Tj3's posts. If he disagrees with that opinion he is free to provide any evidence that would change my (and many other people's) views on this.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I do exactly that.

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But how? Where's the dignity, the humanity, in a soulless man who came from a primordial soup?

JoeT

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

But how? Where's the dignity, the humanity, in a soulless man who came from a primordial soup?

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Soulless ? Can you FIRST provide OSE that humanity has a soul? Soul is a religious claim, not a fact.
Fact as in TRUE or TRUTH.

What have dignity and humanity to do with our common origins out of the first lifeform , which you so euphemistally and negatively call "primordial soup"?
Life is not based on dignity and humanity. Life is based on best fitting the requirements to produce healthy descendants.

And as to religion and dignity and humanity... if these were linked than what went wrong so often in the history of mankind?

;)

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this will go on forever... ^-^