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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

There is ample objective supporting evidence for both evolution and origin of the universe available to everyone who spend a minimum of time to get him/her self introduced into that matter.

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The evidence is not nearly enough to prove it fact and you believe it anyway.. :rolleyes:

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Totally unlike religious claims for which - notwithstanding how much energy and effort one spends on that matter - only subjective support is available - even after many thousands of years of discussions, debate, and research.

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This is your belief, because the reality is there is an insurmountable amount of objective, archaeological, scientific, historical and testimonial evidence to prove the accuracy and creadibility of the Bible.

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Of course I provide you and all other theists once more the opportunity to react with providing objective supported evidence for their religious claims. So I am looking forward to that evidence in your next reaction.

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We are still waiting for objective evidence of your wild claims..

I consider Evolution a Faith not Science. The essence of the scientific method is measurement, observation and repeatability. Neither Creation nor Evolution are scientific in this sense. Neither one can be tested, for the simple reason that we cannot repeat history. The origin of the universe, life and mankind all took place in the past and cannot be studied or repeated in the laboratory. No one, in all human history has ever observed macro evolution taking place anywhere not even in the fossil record.
Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation.. both are concepts which believers know to be true but neither, up to the present, has been capable of proof.
As far as supernatuaral goes I just think it is the only possible way the universe could have come into being. Your belief in evolution relies on the assumption of naturalism.

The problem is with the so called transitional fossils is that evolutionist have not been able to distinguish the difference between these imaginary transitional creatures and normal species.

There is no way to prove God 100%. The only way to do that is if God showed his face in the sky and he spoke to everyone, and all would see and hear him. (God is not going to do that) However there is objective, achaelogical, scientific, historical, testimonial evidence to prove the creadibility and accuracy of the Bible. Like I gave Credo the example (which he convieniently chose to ignore) the account of the plagues sent to Egypt in the book of exodus has proven to have historical evidence that it really happened. The Ancient Egyptians wrote on papyrus about events that occurred that are consistent with the Bibles account. For example the Egyptians wrote that their rivers turned to blood which is consistent with the Bibles account of one of the plagues sent to Egypt.
So the bottom line is there is evidence for God. The evidence is there but it is just a matter of whether you accept it as sufficient or not of which your choise is a purely subjective decision.

This is the bottom line

Well what if God was making soup one day pondering over creating a world and He stubbed His toe and spilled the soup and it spilled down from Heaven and THAT IS HOW WE GOT HERE? I mean what if Sunday, Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday were actually INGREDIENTS!!







I AM JUST KIDDING. CALM DOWN. I THOUGHT A LITTLE HUMOR ON MY PART WOULD BE SUITABLE RIGHT NOW.

Cookie monster thought it was funny

:D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

There is ample objective supporting evidence for both evolution and origin of the universe available to everyone who spend a minimum of time to get him/her self introduced into that matter.

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That very same matter is ample evidence for the existence of God.

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Totally unlike religious claims for which - notwithstanding how much energy and effort one spends on that matter - only subjective support is available - even after many thousands of years of discussions, debate, and research.

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Not so. Just as you can make a deductive jump from viewing the bones of a monkey and assuming they came before man and evolved into man, we can see the beautiful design of those bones and of the other creatures of this planet and logically deduce that only God could have created them.

In each case a reflection of the objective evidence leads to a subjective reflection which leads to a conclusion.

However, your insistence that religious claims have no evidence or substance is simply your way of insulting us. You try to conceal it with fancy language but an insult is an insult.

Its either that or you have no idea what is objective evidence.

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Of course I provide you and all other theists once more the opportunity to react with providing objective supported evidence for their religious claims. So I am looking forward to that evidence in your next reaction.

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And I have provided them again. Now you, if you want to be fair, instead of simply obstinate, should explain why that evidence is not enough or why you think that evidence leads you to a different conclusion. But the same evidence you present for evolutiion is the same evidence we present for the existence of God.

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Once you have done that, we can compare both objective supported evidences, and discuss the validity of either. Till that time the onus of evidence is not on proving the ins and outs of evolution or the origin of the universe, but on that of religious claims.

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Lets do it. The evidence is there, you have provided it. After you explain why this evidence leads you to your beliefs on the subject of the existence of God, I will explain why I believe what I believe concerning the relationship of this evidence for the origin of the universe and evolution.

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:rolleyes:

Note : all one has to do is adding "I believe" to wild religious claims to validate them...

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That seems to be all you want to do to validate your claims. We have continually examined the evidence and explained our conclusion.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

That very same matter is ample evidence for the existence of God

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If that were true : where is that objective supported evidence than?

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

There is ample objective supporting evidence for both evolution and origin of the universe available to everyone who spend a minimum of time to get him/her self introduced into that matter.

Totally unlike religious claims for which - notwithstanding how much energy and effort one spends on that matter - only subjective support is available - even after many thousands of years of discussions, debate, and research.

Of course I provide you and all other theists once more the opportunity to react with providing objective supported evidence for their religious claims. So I am looking forward to that evidence in your next reaction.

Once you have done that, we can compare both objective supported evidences, and discuss the validity of either. Till that time the onus of evidence is not on proving the ins and outs of evolution or the origin of the universe, but on that of religious claims.

:rolleyes:

Note : all one has to do is adding "I believe" to wild religious claims to validate them...

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Did you not see my post #102


I find it amazing that you "see ample evidence for evolution" yet fail to show us the link or respond to questions about articles published in scientific journals.

Here is another you can evade.

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Scoop: Mazur: Altenberg! The Woodstock of Evolution?



"Oh sure natural selection's been demonstrated. . . the interesting point, however, is that it has rarely if ever been demonstrated to have anything to do with evolution in the sense of long-term changes in populations. . . . Summing up we can see that the import of the Darwinian theory of evolution is just unexplainable caprice from top to bottom. What evolves is just what happened to happen."


"Well there's 25,000 genes, so each could be on or off. So there's 2 x 2 x 2 x 25,000 times. Well that's 2 to the 25,000th. Right? Which is something like 10 to the 7,000th. Okay? There's only 10 to the 80th particles in the whole universe. Are you stunned?"

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These are phd[s] that question evolution, which in past posts you say you don't believe yet see evidence for.

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Mark 5

34He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."

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This woman did not tell Jesus to prove himself, she knew, she believed! She had faith !

After the miracle of feeding thousands...

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Mark 8

11The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven. 12He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it."

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

If that were true : where is that objective supported evidence than?

:rolleyes:

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It's the very same evidence you presented for evolution. But if you prefer, pick up a blade of grass or look at your own hand. They are all ample evidence for the existence of God.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Did you not see my post #102

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#102 was my post , not yours , so no : I did not see your #102 post ! In fact nobody did...

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Its the very same evidence you presented for evolution. But if you prefer, pick up a blade of grass or look at your own hand. They are all ample evidence for the existence of God.

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Totally incorrect and unsupported statement !
There is ample OBJECTIVE supporting evidence available everywhere for a major part of Evolution.

However there is not one single iota of OBJECTIVE supporting evidence available for any religious claim.
NOTE : NONE AT ALL !

But you can prove me wrong : go for it and start with your OBJECTIVE supporting evidence for God's existence, God being the Creator, and God being 1/3 of the Trinity, together with JC and the Holy Spirit ("God" here referring to the Christian deity)

Facts please, no babble!

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Its the very same evidence you presented for evolution. But if you prefer, pick up a blade of grass or look at your own hand. They are all ample evidence for the existence of God.

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You fail at science.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

You (de Maria) fail at science.

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Not only science : also on logic, argumentation, and philosophy!
And I do not mean that as an insult.

;)

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Totally incorrect and unsupported statement !
There is ample OBJECTIVE supporting evidence available everywhere for a major part of Evolution.

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This is your SUBJECTIVE BELIEF we are yet to see your so called objective evidence you keep ranting about.. lol

If your idea of "objective" is evidence given by people who believe the same things you do.. then don't even bother.

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However there is not one single iota of OBJECTIVE supporting evidence available for any religious claim.
NOTENONE AT ALL

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Again these are YOUR BELIEFS... Because the reality is there is objective evidence for the claims made by the bible and we have given you some of it but you have chosen to ignore the evidence in order to adhere to your own BELIEFS. So you choose to ignore reality because of your faith in the absence of objective evidence for biblical claims.

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But you can prove me wrong : go for it and start with your OBJECTIVE supporting evidence for God's existence, God being the Creator, and God being 1/3 of the Trinity, together with JC and the Holy Spirit ("God" here referring to the Christian deity)

Facts please, no babble!

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You are demanding supported objective evidence for our claims but You have not done the same for your own claims. Before you demand that from us you are the one who needs to give us supported objective evidence for your claims.
We are still waiting for FACTS that prove that the universe was created by a Big bang and that man (and all living things) evolved from a one cell creature that crawled out of a mythical vegie soup. As soon as you prove to us that these beliefs of yours are actual facts then we will attempt to give you the objective evidence for God you've been yearning for. ;)

Go ahead... but please No theoretical Babble, Just FACTS please. :)

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Originally Posted by sassyT

This is your SUBJECTIVE BELIEF we are yet to see your so called objective evidence you keep ranting about.

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Oh, I see. The entire scientific world and various engineering technologies are all conspiring against theists and their BELIEF in one or more deities!

Still I do not see that as a reason for YOU not to provide objective supporting evidence for the data I requested on "god", if you want to convince others of the wild claim that the god you believe in really exists.

What is actually holding you back to support your own claims?


Added :

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Originally Posted by sassyT

... the reality is there is objective evidence for the claims made by the bible and we have given you some of it but you have chosen to ignore the evidence in order to adhere to your own BELIEFS. So you choose to ignore reality because of your faith in the absence of objective evidence for biblical claims.

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The bible is just a book, until you can prove with objective supported evidence that it is gods word, and that god exists and is the creator.

There NEVER EVER was any objective supported evidence provided by anyone that supported the basic and most important issue in religion : is there a god, and is that god the creator. And for Christians there is the added third issue of god being part of the trinity.


;)

You are demanding supported objective evidence for our claims but You have not done the same for your own claims. Before you demand that from us you are the one who needs to give us supported objective evidence for your claims.
We are still waiting for FACTS that prove that the universe was created by a Big bang and that man (and all living things) evolved from a one cell creature that crawled out of a mythical vegie soup. As soon as you prove to us that these beliefs of yours are actual facts then we will attempt to give you the objective evidence for God you've been yearning for.

Go ahead WE ARE WAITING... but please No theoretical Babble, Just FACTS please. :)

Sassy, you can't even provide facts for the existence of gravity. It certainly is looking like you will deny anything offered as facts. In your world there are absolutely nothing that is construed as objective evidence so why are you asking for it?

Hi everyone Credo has been harassing every theist for evidence and yet he has been deliberately avoiding everyone's request for him to provide the factual evidence for his CLAIMS. Do not give him any evidence until he provided us with 100% factual evidence for his Magical Big Bang that he claims created everything. We want hard facts no theoretical babble. Just facts.

I would love to see facts from both sides. I have been waiting patiently, post by post thread by thread. Instead it seems as though there is just a lot of arguing and making demands from each other. What has that accomplished...

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Originally Posted by bushg

I would love to see facts from both sides. I have been waiting patiently, post by post thread by thread. Instead it seems as though there is just a lot of arguing and making demands from each other. What has that accomplished......

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Yes I agree with you. We all just waiting for Credo.. He has been claiming his beliefs are Facts of reality but has done nothing to prove it.

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Originally Posted by sassyT

Hi everyone Credo has been harrassing every theist for evidence and yet he has been deliberately avoiding everyone's request for him to provide the factual evidence for his CLAIMS. Do not give him any evidence until he provided us with 100% factual evidence for his Magical Big Bang that he claims created everything. We want hard facts no theoretical babble. Just facts.

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Totally untrue. I do not harrass anyone. If I did the powers that be would kick my backside and block my board access.

I have NEVER claimed that there is 100% evidence supporting evolution. I always mention that there is major support for that Theory, but not 100%. That would be impossible.

Neither have I ever claimed that there is 100% evidence supporting the origin of the universe etc. I always mention that there is major support for that Theory.

Only a small group of theists (that includes sassyT) claims "absolute" evidence for the existence of god. But when asked for that objective supporting evidence there only is either total silence, or sidestepping of issues and deliberate confusion, or there follows an attack on scientific theories.

When will those who BELIEVE in god finally admit that they BELIEVE that god exists, instead of claiming that that existence is factual?
I have no problem with people believing that. I have a problem with people trying to force their beliefs upon others.

:D

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Originally Posted by sassyT

yes i agree with you. we all just waiting for Credo.. He has been claiming his beliefs are Facts of reality but has done nothing to prove it.

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I have no religious beliefs. You say that I have, but so far you never have been able to prove that. You are the one making claims here. Not I.

:rolleyes: