By ScottGem

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Agreed. But that leaves it up to the individual to choose whether to believe only in what can be proven or to rely on their faith as proof

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In my opinion that's exactly who should have the last word right or wrong. We as humans still have a long way to go before we can even begin to unravel the mysteries of the universe. And yes we will get many differing opinions but the main thing for now is how we deal with each other while we go through this period of I don't know for sure! So to answer the OP, In my opinion we should bury our prejudices and fears and give our children ALL the knowledge they can handle and leave that politically correct stuff alone. If nothing else maybe the next generation will not be obsessed with being right and more tolerant of others who are different!

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Originally Posted by talaniman

So to answer the OP, In my opinion we should bury our prejudices and fears and give our children ALL the knowledge they can handle and leave that politically correct stuff alone.

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I agree.

HOWEVER, the OP was not whether ID should be taught but whether it should be taught as a science. There is also the question of where it should be taught.

In my opinion it should be taught as part of a person's religious education. Not in public schools.

Unfortunately and this is sad, intolerant people usually pass it to their kids so I think its safe to say it will be a while before we get it enough to make a difference.

Always reminds me of the song from South Pacific, You have to be carefully taught!

All the scientists that Starmanposted were copied from a religious web site called "Abounding Joy". Slanted to say the least!

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Refuse or just don't accept? As Tom keeps saying there is no scientific proof of a Creator. Absent that, how can any scientific proofs be made for Creationism or Intelligent Design?



Frankly I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. All my posts here have been simply a statement of why I believe in evolution and attempts to refute claims that the Theory of Evolution is totally unfounded.



No, my feelings about religion have little to do with my feelings about Evolution. I have said several times that I don't believe that Evolution is in direct contradiction to the Bible, except for a literal interpretation. My belief in Evolution is due to the fact that its the only theory that is supported by a preponderance of scientific fact. Something I have stated several times and something I don't see refuted, by anything other than rhetoric.



And I've responded to this by suggesting that you review what you've said. Because much of what you have said seems to be denigrating the scientific facts, not just Evolutionist interpretation of them. If you want to disagree with Evolutionist interpretation that is your right. But then deal with the interpretations not the facts themselves.

As for your quotes. It is my experience that support against Evolution is a highly emotional charged since antievolutionists feel its an attack on their religious beliefs. Ergo, even normally rational scientists may succumb to emotional rhetoric.

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The quotes were given by respected scientists. The problem is that if they are not evolutionists then you conveniently conclude that they aren't worthy of your respect.


Preponderance? Support?

Preponderance of interpretations of things discovered in order to fit in what is already believed to be the reasons.

Do nor understand?

That's because you don't really understand what I said due to your inability to grasp the concept of inconsistency.


If you don't know how evolutionists are being inconsistent how can you say one way or another?

If you do understand then why don't you offer up as refutation instead of falling back conveniently like a broken record on you accusations of emotionality and claims of preponderance?


As for emotions: You come across as very upset whenever someone doesn't accept your claims. Also, the argument stands or falls on its own merits. The person's emotions have NOTHING to do with its validity. Many arguments that are pure drivel are offered up by people with deadpan expressions and seemingly unemotionally. That doesn't add one iota of value to what they say if what they say is drivel--does it?

BTW
The reason I don't believe in evolution is because I find the arguments presented unconvincing. Am I allowed that here?

I think we all can say our peace without the personal stuff!

No one as said you aren't allowed to believe what you want.

Since you seem to totally misread what I've said and have decided, to put your own biased interpretation despite words to the contrary, I see no reason to continue butting my head against it.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

No one has said you aren't allowed to believe what you want.

Since you seem to totally misread what I've said and have decided, to put your own biased interpretation despite words to the contrary, I see no reason to continue butting my head against it.

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About bias, and misinterpretations, the opinion is mutual.

Because science cannot prove or disprove doesn't mean it cannot exist. Ahh! Then you accept the existence of Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy. (your logic, not mine)

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speedball1 disagrees: Because science cannot prove or disprove doesn't mean it cannot exist. Ahh! Then you accept the existence of Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy. (your logic, not mine)

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Just for the record I don't celebrate any of the holidays you refer too, so it must be YOUR logic not mine.

Thought this was germane:

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Just for the record I don't celebrate any of the holidays you refer too, so it must be YOUR logic not mine.

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No Tally,

I wasn't the one who stated, "Because science cannot prove or disprove doesnt mean it cannot exist."

All I did was to answer, " Ahh! Then you accept the existence of Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy."

Now you may explain to me the difference in beliving in gods and goddesses and believing in Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy.

The operational word here is "belief" and whether you celebrate these holidays or not doesn't change anything.
Are you saying with this statement, " Just for the record I don't celebrate any of the holidays you refer too," that your beliefs are "flexible"?
Then that would render your original statement untrue wouldn't it?

LMFAO, Gary Trudeau and Carl Sagin are two of my "heros"

Not sure what your point is since it is based in the way YOU see things which is cool. But your reach from GOD to Santa Claus? And for the record your interpretation of my statement IS entirely Your logic and has nothing to do with me one way or another. And also for the record, YOU did more than answer, YOU cast the issue of my GOD with the cloud of YOUR own logic which makes no sense to me at all. MY belief is mine and no, flexible is not the word I would use but PERSONAL would be a lot more accurate. If you believe what "scientist " tell you Fine, I'm not trying to convert you ,I really don't care what YOU or anyone else believes to tell the truth . I probably won't be there to argue your point with YOUR GOD! If the Easter bunny or Santa Claus really do exist SO WHAT! What does that have to do with me! Now If the God that I understand presented himself in a red suit and red hat, I'd say HMMMM********Speedball was right! Until then... To each his own! :cool: :D

Good response Tally,

I was just ragging on you and having a little fun. Now enjoy the rest of your week end. Cheers, Tom

LOVE the debate my friend, And it is a holiday and it is TIME TO PARTY!! ENJOY-Bob

As a scientist I can tell you that there are many signs of evolution, that is we descended from other primates. Human DNA resembles chimpanzee's DNA 95%.

Isn't it interesting how some folks can dismiss a book that has been proven correct so many times by fulfilled predictions, archeological finds, scientific discoveries, and an unbroken line of history through ancient scribes, and yet swallow the claims of evolution whole. Now THAT really takes gullibility. To say that evolution has been proven is a total mistake. There are many recognized scientists that do not accept evolution as a cause. Mutation is not the same as evolution. Evolution is a religion and just as vigorously supported as any other religion. So admit it. Your are religious after all.

Excellent points--I agree 100%!