Ask Me Help Desk - My christian belief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Then please be clear - are you saying that it is a mental defect or sin? You were the one who brought up the terms mental defect and mental illness.

No. I am saying it is not what God intended when he created the world.

Did He want us to have mental defects and diseases and mental illnesses?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No. I am saying it is not what God intended when he created the world.

You are still not being clear. In what way is it not what God intended? It is either a defect (and since it affects thinking it would be a mental defect) or it is sin.

Please stop beating around the bush.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Then please be clear - are you saying that it is a mental defect or sin? You were the one who brought up the terms mental defect and mental illness.

What color were Adam's and Eve's eyes?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

You are still not being clear. In what way is it not what God intended? It is either a defect (and since it affects thinking it would be a mental defect) or it is sin.

Please stop beating around the bush.

Is a spider that bites you a sin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

You are still not being clear. In what way is it not what God intended? It is either a defect (and since it affects thinking it would be a mental defect) or it is sin.

Please stop beating around the bush.

Adam and Eve each had determinate physical and psychological properties. From that fact that, after the Fall, deviations from these properties emerged it does not follow that those deviations are defects or sins. They are just deviations from what was initially created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Is a spider that bites you a sin?

First you won't talk about orientation, claiming that it is not part of the topic, now you want to discuss spiders. Why - do yolu think spiders are involved in sexual sin?

Why do you keep beating around the bush - you raised the point, so why are you so afraid to simply make it clear what you are trying to say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Adam and Eve each had determinate physical and psychological properties. From that fact that, after the Fall, deviations from these properties emerged it does not follow that those deviations are defects or sins. They are just deviations from what was initially created.

So are deviation which is contrary to the design is not a defect? Failing to do what God commanded is not a sin?

And yet God condemns it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

First you won't talk about orientation, claiming that it is not part of the topic, now you want to discuss spiders. Why - do yolu think spiders are involved in sexual sin?

Why do you keep beating around the bush - you raised the point, so why are you so afraid to simply make it clear what you are trying to say.

Is a weed in your garden a sin? Is an avalanche a sin? Is it a sin when your wife burns a pan of cookies?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Is a weed in your garden a sin? Is an avalance a sin? Is it a sin when your wife burns a pan of cookies?

Boy you will do anything to distract from the topic when it gets uncomfortable, eh?

If you really believe what you are saying, why are you so afraid to answer the question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

If you really believe what you are saying, why are you so afraid to answer the question?

Please answer my questions. Humor me. They are pretty easy.

When chimps, engage in homosexual behavior, is it a sin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Please answer my questions. Humor me. They are pretty easy.

You and Akoue won't answer mine all of which are on topic, so why should I bother with yours. A discussion is a two way street.

Why are you afraid to clarify you own statement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

When chimps, engage in homosexual behavior, is it a sin?

More to the point - do you believe that animals sin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

You and Akoue won't answer mine all of which are on topic, so why should I bother with yours. A discussion is a two way street.

Why are you afraid to clarify you own statement?

Um, I asked first. You have no answers? Just yes or no is OK with me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Um, I asked first. You have no answers? Just yes or no are ok with me.

You clearly live in a different timeline if you think you asked first. Are you telling me that there is a distortion in the time-space continuum?

We will get nowhere this way. You made a statement - are you prepared to stand behind it or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

You clearly live in a different timeline if you think you asked first. Are you telling me that there is a distortion in the time-space continuum?

We will get nowhere this way. You made a statement - are you prepared to stand behind it or not?

I'm so sorry you can't figure out the answers to my three easy questions or to Akoue's. Maybe classyT will return and answer them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm so sorry you can't figure out the answers to my three easy questions or to Akoue's. Maybe classyT will return and answer them.

So I must assume that since you are avoiding my request for clarification, the fact that there is no third option between sin or metal defect / illness is something that you perhaps did not anticipate in your theory and now wish to avoid.

I understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Of course homosexuality was not part of God's plan when He created a perfect world. And yes, homosexuality wasn't part of the picture -- He created men and women to be fruitful and multiply. But then something happened to upset God's plan, didn't it. Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. God's perfect plan was no more. The world became imperfect, and death happened. As people were born into the world, they were born imperfect -- with physical and mental defects and illnesses. They died before or at birth. They also were born not only as heterosexuals, but also as homosexuals.

I got to agree with you here. My nephew was born with autism. Was that God's plan? Maybe, just maybe classy t and is it Tom? (Sorry if I got your name wrong) Maybe something went wrong in the formation of "opposite sex attraction" just as something went wrong in the "brain activity" formation of my nephew. You don't see his "mis" formation being condemned. Why should you condemn homosexuality then? Why would God shun something like this. I don't believe he does and you can show me scripture to back up your assertion all day long, but I don't consider it as fact. It's just words written from long ago that could be misconstrued in many ways. Just like we humans are born with the possibility of our formation being misconstrued in many ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

So I must assume that since you are avoiding my request for clarification, the fact that there is no third option between sin or metal defect / illness is something that you perhaps did not anticipate in your theory and now wish to avoid.

I understand.

Lolololololololol You can't answer my questions!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

lolololololololol You can't answer my questions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you wish to suffer under that delusion, I cannot stop you. But if that is you attitude, then I must assume that you are merely answer my request by confirming that you have no answer to mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

If you wish to suffer under that delusion, I cannot stop you. But if that is you attitude, then I must assume that you are merely answer my request by confirming that you have no answer to mine.

Ah -- that means you know the answers. Do you remember the questions, or should I repost them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

I got to agree with you here. My nephew was born with autism. Was that God's plan?

Autism is a defect that occurs - we know that.

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Maybe something went wrong in the formation of "opposite sex attraction" just as something went wrong in the "brain activity" formation of my nephew.

So you are saying that homosexual may be a brain defect.

If it were, God would not condemn it as sin. Why is it that homosexuals can change? Why is it that scripture records that homosexuals changed when they received Jesus as Saviour?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Ah -- that means you know the answers. Do you remember the questions, or should I repost them?

Sure - right after you answer mine.

How does this relate to Bobalina?

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

How does this relate to Bobalina??

The question was whether it is right to be a homosexual.

Wondergirl appears to be saying that it is okay because it is a mental defect of some sort, and scripture says that it is sin.

Oh, yeah -- you never asked my earlier question either: "At what age did you chose to be heterosexual?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Oh, yeah -- you never asked my earlier question either: "At what age did you chose to be heterosexual?"

I did answer it - directly. I may have specifically responded to Akoue's variant of the question, but I answered it nonetheless. I guess that you skipped over that post. Go back and have a look.

Now, how about an answer to my questions i.e.:

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

I did answer it - directly. I may have specifically responded to Akoue's variant of the question, but I answered it nonetheless. I guess that you skipped over that post. Go back and have a look.

Now, how about an answer to my questions i.e.:

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

I'm unaware of having asked any version of that question. I noted that Wondergirl did and was interested to read your answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

I gotta agree with you here. My nephew was born with autism. Was that God's plan? Maybe, just maybe classy t and is it Tom? (Sorry if I got your name wrong) Maybe something went wrong in the formation of "opposite sex attraction" just as something went wrong in the "brain activity" formation of my nephew. You don't see his "mis" formation being condemned. Why should you condemn homosexuality then? Why would God shun something like this. I don't believe he does and you can show me scripture to back up your assertion all day long, but I don't consider it as fact. It's just words written from long ago that could be misconstrued in many ways. Just like we humans are born with the possibility of our formation being misconstrued in many ways.

My older son is autistic. And no, autism was not in God's plan. There was no autism in the Garden of Eden (or in the perfect world God had created).

When a baby begins, it is female. Along the way, that little girl gets a bath in testosterone, a male hormone. Some of those little girls become little boys. Maybe that bath confuses things. I don't know. I do know some children are born with external sex characteristics that don't match their sex hormones inside. They grow up with a uterus and vagina but male hormones, or a penis and testicles but inside are female hormones. That's not what God intended. But should we condemn those children and the adults they become?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

When a baby begins, it is female. Along the way, that little girl gets a bath in testosterone, a male hormone. Some of those little girls become little boys. Maybe that bath confuses things. I don't know. I do know some children are born with external sex characteristics that don't match their sex hormones inside. They grow up with a uterus and vagina but male hormones, or a penis and testicles but inside are female hormones. That's not what God intended. But should we condemn those children and the adults they become?

An interesting theory, but let's stick to the facts.

Should we condemn them you ask? We should condemn no one - But we should accept what God said and condemn the sin of homosexuality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

I have answered both of those. Go back and find my answers. They are there (somewhere in the debris of your obfuscating).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I have answered both of those. Go back and find my answers. They are there (somewhere in the debris of your obfuscating).

No, you altered the question - you did not answer them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

I'm unaware of having asked any version of that question. I noted that Wondergirl did and was interested to read your answer.

I stand corrected - she asked two variations of the question, so I did answer hers directly.

Now play by the rules, Wondergirl. Do as Tom says not as he does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Now play by the rules, Wondergirl. Do as Tom says not as he does.

It always comes back to go after the person rather than issue, doesn't it?

You of course avoided my question about orientation also.

Quote:

- What do you believe an orientation is?
- Do you believe that homosexuality is a mental defect / illness or a sin?

*with great patience*
I said I will go with Wikipedia's answer for sexual orientation, which is what we are discussing here. Not orienteering or even facing east.

No. Neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality is a sin.

Now answer my three questions, please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

*with great patience*
I said I will go with Wikipedia's answer for sexual orientation, which is what we are discussing here. Not orienteering or even facing east.

No one even discussed or asked about orienteering. I did however ask what you though "orientation" (as a generic term) means.

You still avoid it I see.

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No. Neither heterosexuality nor homosexuality is a sin.

So you reject God's word regarding homosexuality?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Now play by the rules, Wondergirl. Do as Tom says not as he does.

I'm sorry, Akoue. I think it might be contagious. Be careful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

No one even discussed or asked about orienteering. I did however ask what you though "orientation" (as a generic term) means.

You still avoid it I see.

You never answered Akoue as to why defining such a broad term as "orientation" is relevant to this discussion about sexuality.

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So you reject God's word regarding homosexuality?

I reject what you think God's word says about homosexuality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

It always comes back to go after the person rather than issue, doesn't it?

You of course avoided my question about orientation also.

I didn't avoid the question. I told head-on that I think it's a pointless diversion. I even invited you to tell me what on earth the relevance could possibly be, since we are talking about sexual orientation and have a definition of that on offer. You seem to think that talking about orientation in general is important. Unless you can explain why, I see no reason to indulge you. I'm not particularly interested in a definition of "orientation" in general, since that would have to apply to nautical usages as well as the one that is actually, you know, relevant, to wit, sexual orientation. Sometimes it's useful to "ascend to the universal"; here I think it would be obfuscating and distracting.