Ask Me Help Desk - The Nature of Salvation

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It's such a good book that you don't believe it. It's a good book, and yet we get in trouble if we, "put it before God." It's a good book, but you never refer to its text. Yeah, your double-talk won't work here.

I HAVE referred to its text. In fact, in the very post you are replying to. Among other times, also.

Again, you are telling me what I believe and don't believe. Did you know fortune-telling/mind-reading is condemned in the Bible? What is double-talk to you is plain talk to those who are a bit more knowledgeable in these things.

I would much prefer to discuss these things with a Bible-type who is less literal- not your fault - but you're all we've got.

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Yet Christ Himself contradicted this equilateral notion by simply stating, "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

Well, at least you are thinking a little now. In His earthly experience, when He walked as a man, He was subordinate to the Father. Even at that, it still does not help your position. Your text still has a Father and Son.

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Read the scriptures. I know you are accustomed to forming your view of truth from outside the Bible....

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You know this how?

That's so funny. You answer your own question with your next comment. "So you want proof passages. Bible Bingo time! I gave you one above." Any serious study of the Bible is like a bingo game to you. Any thought that perhaps your views should be based on Scripture is just bingo to you. Thank you for your helpful assistance.

Did you ever remember if you have repented of your sins and accepted Christ? It is important. I asked if you had ever done that, and you got offended for some reason.

Athos:

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I HAVE referred to its text.

You did not refer to any specific text. I don't blame you. If you ever start really engaging the Bible, you will have to change what you believe. That's what you're afraid of, I think.

If I was a "less literal" type as you want, I would be a functional non-believer like you seem to be.

You're welcome to your beliefs, whatever they are. I've asked you before what your religious beliefs are. You got offended and basically said nothing, but I'll ask again. What exactly do you believe about God? About Christ? About man? Do your beliefs come from the Bible? If so, then can you tell us what scriptures you rely on?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

If I was a "less literal" type as you want, I would be a functional non-believer like you seem to be.

Why are you so afraid to challenge and clarify your beliefs? Smoke from hellfire is leaking through the floorboards?

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Why are you so afraid to challenge and clarify your beliefs?

Which belief? What clarity?

Now bear in mind that this question is coming from a woman who was just presented several scriptures about the triune nature of God and has yet to reply to a single one, but she thinks someone else is afraid? Pretty whacky stuff. REALLY whacky. And if she holds true to form, she will next respond that she HAS responded to those texts. She responded to ALL of them, she will say.

Just sayin.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Which belief? What clarity?

Now bear in mind that this question is coming from a woman who was just presented several scriptures about the triune nature of God and has yet to reply to a single one, but she thinks someone else is afraid? Pretty whacky stuff. REALLY whacky. And if she holds true to form, she will next respond that she HAS responded to those texts. She responded to ALL of them, she will say.

Just sayin.

So many unchristian putdowns. Jesus is weeping!

And yes, I replied. More tomorrow.

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So many unchristian putdowns. Jesus is weeping!

You're so funny. What beliefs? What clarity? Respond to the verses. Reply? "So many unchristian putdowns." Oh well. Asking questions is now a putdown. If you want a discussion, you need to be prepared to discuss. Cliches won't work here. Become more like Tal. He has the courage to state his convictions.

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And yes, I replied

Exactly as I predicted.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You're so funny. What beliefs? What clarity? Respond to the verses. Reply? "So many unchristian putdowns." Oh well. Asking questions is now a putdown. If you want a discussion, you need to be prepared to discuss.

But you aren't discussing; you are preoccupied with your opponent and breaking her down.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Well, at least you are thinking a little now. Putdown! In His earthly experience, when He walked as a man, He was subordinate to the Father. Even at that, it still does not help your position. Your text still has a Father and Son.

But now no "Holy Spirit," thus no Trinity.

Is acceptance of Christ as your savior the only path to salvation?

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But you aren't discussing; you are preoccupied with your opponent and breaking her down.

Oh stop whining. It really, really gets tiresome. This is a discussion between adults. I believe you are completely able to defend your positions, and so I ask questions to clarify your thinking. I'm not going to treat you like a weak, silly female.

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But now no "Holy Spirit," thus no Trinity.

And thus you have clearly not read the scriptures I listed for you, so there really is no reason to pursue this. You are not prepared to put in the ten or fifteen minutes of effort needed.

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Is acceptance of Christ as your savior the only path to salvation?

Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father but by me." A text in Acts says that there is no other name given under heaven whereby men must be saved. How does that sound to you?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Oh stop whining. It really, really gets tiresome. This is a discussion between adults. I believe you are completely able to defend your positions, and so I ask questions to clarify your thinking. I'm not going to treat you like a weak, silly female.

Who's the adult in the room??? And you are not "clarifying my thinking." My thinking is very clear!

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And thus you have clearly not read the scriptures I listed for you, so there really is no reason to pursue this. You are not prepared to put in the ten or fifteen minutes of effort needed.

You sound like a schoolteacher. Hmm.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Oh stop whining. It really, really gets tiresome. This is a discussion between adults. I believe you are completely able to defend your positions, and so I ask questions to clarify your thinking. I'm not going to treat you like a weak, silly female.

Not everybody likes your overly aggressive style or condescending nature of your responses.

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And thus you have clearly not read the scriptures I listed for you, so there really is no reason to pursue this. You are not prepared to put in the ten or fifteen minutes of effort needed.

Another example of using YOUR interpretation as a weapon.

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Jesus said, "No man comes to the Father but by me." A text in Acts says that there is no other name given under heaven whereby men must be saved. How does that sound to you?

Like the author was making a point that you seem to embrace, Your way or burn in hell.

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Not everybody likes your overly aggressive style or condescending nature of your responses.

I understand. It's just like how I don't like it when people are evasive and disingenuous.

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Another example of using YOUR interpretation as a weapon.

Except that in the passage you quoted, I did not interpret anything. I simply stated the truth.

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Like the author was making a point that you seem to embrace, Your way or burn in hell.

Not sure which author you are referring to, but pretty sure they didn't know me and certainly had no idea what my present "way" is. I gave you two scriptures. Accept it or reject it, but don't blame it on me. I am not the author. I simply asked you to think for yourself.

I really enjoy the give and take of genuine discussion. It becomes tiresome when people don't want their own beliefs examined but want to dig incessantly into mine. I don't mind that at all, but it needs to be a two way street. Besides, what Christian would hesitate for even a second to describe the day that he/she put their faith in Christ? I would think it would be a wonderful story worth sharing with everyone.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

It becomes tiresome when people don't want their own beliefs examined but want to dig incessantly into mine. I don't mind that at all, but it needs to be a two way street. Besides, what Christian would hesitate for even a second to describe the day that he/she put their faith in Christ? I would think it would be a wonderful story worth sharing with everyone.

Yes, it does become tiresome when people refuse to examine their beliefs! You are Southern Baptist? ("the day that he/she put their faith in Christ")

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You are Southern Baptist? ("the day that he/she put their faith in Christ")

Uhm...no. Not SB.

So you've never had a time when, as Jesus once put it, you were born again? You put your faith in Jesus as Savior in the same manner that Paul, Cornelius, Timothy, the 5,000 on the Day of Pentecost, or Lydia did? Why does that scare you so much?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Uhm...no. Not SB.

So you've never had a time when, as Jesus once put it, you were born again? You put your faith in Jesus as Savior in the same manner that Paul, Cornelius, Timothy, the 5,000 on the Day of Pentecost, or Lydia did? Why does that scare you so much?

Scare me? (There ya go again!) Nope, I was born into faith when I was baptized at three weeks of age.

Pentecostal, then. Assemblies of God?

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I was born into faith when I was baptized at three weeks of age.

Infant baptism? OK. I thought you were a Lutheran and followed the teachings of Luther.

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Pentecostal, then. Assemblies of God?

No and no. I like the Baptists, the Pentecostals, and the AG folk, but I am not a member of one of their churches, nor have I associated with them.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Infant baptism? OK. I thought you were a Lutheran and followed the teachings of Luther.

Yes, I do.

So you refuse to divulge....

Well, Luther said you had to have a personal faith. He did not believe that infant baptism was sufficient for redemption. Are you aware of that? Might add that he was a great believer is making sure that a person's beliefs were grounded in scripture. He would never have joked, I don't think, about "Bible Bingo".

Refuse to divulge what? I have answered your questions forthrightly. (I like that word.)

Since you seem to be rather eager to know, I am not a member of any denomination. I am simply a Christian. I placed my faith in Jesus a year or so after I graduated from college. I spent two years in Bible college and was ordained at one time, but I let that lapse as I really wasn't using it. He has been faithful to me in every way I can imagine. I consider the Bible to be God's word, read it daily, and trust God to lead me in my life's decisions. I would rather follow Christ than anything else I know of.

Happy now? 8D

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Well, Luther said you had to have a personal faith. He did not believe that infant baptism was sufficient for redemption. Are you aware of that?

That's incorrect. I'm a Lutheran PK, hung out with other Lutheran pastors and their families, am a graduate of a Lutheran college, a long-time Lutheran SS and adult Bible class teacher, and was born on Luther's birthday (but different year).

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Bible bingo

Luther would have loved that name for a "game" he played all too often

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Refuse to divulge what? I have answered your questions forthrightly. (I like that word.)

Now you finally have in that post.

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That's incorrect. I'm a Lutheran PK, hung out with other Lutheran pastors and their families, am a graduate of a Lutheran college, a long-time Lutheran SS and adult Bible class teacher, and was born on Luther's birthday (but different year).

You need to read some more.

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Now you finally have in this post.

Point to the question you have asked that I have not answered. Pretty sure you won't find one. I won't say how I would characterize your statement lest I hurt your feelings.