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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The golden rule is NOT some form of property of Christianity.
Atheists have - just as all other people - used the golden rule to live a proper , prosperous, and safe life.
Atheists did not abuse the golden rule for their own views.


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Now Cred,

I AM sticking to the topic. You claim to follow the golden rule and I am giving you the opportunity of a lifetime here on AMHD. YOU a Atheist can actually apologize to me a Christian and thus PROVE that you all follow the "golden rule" You have falsely accused me and I am just waiting to here from you as to how very sorry you are. LOL I have a feeling I'm going to be waiting a long long long time aren't I? So anyway, you SAY you use it to live a proper life... I just don't see it in action. I think you just like to argue.:p That's OK.. I suppose there are some Christians that enjoy the argument as well.

Hello again, T:

Let me see, "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you". Hmmmm. It don't say nothing about doing what others EXPECT you to do...

I don't know. Am I missing something?

excon

Ex,

Hey, he said he followed the golden rule... I'd like to see it in action. I EXPECT it because he said he followed it. Am I WRONG? I don't think so...

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, T:

Lemme see, "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you". Hmmmm. It don't say nothing about doing what others EXPECT you to do....

I dunno. Am I missing something?

excon

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Different societies and different cultures establish expectations as to what a person understands to be appropriate treatment. Children in such societies may grow up feeling that is what good treatment is because they have known nothing different. That will, of course, influence what they believe is appropriate treatment of others under this rule, assuming that they have ever heard of it.

Hello Tj:

Couple things... You keep thinking people need to "hear" of the golden rule before they can abide by it. I think all they need to do is EXPERIENCE it. It DOESN'T have to be spelled out. It's not something you read. It's something you DO.

Next; I'm baffled how you can discern expectations out of this rule. There just isn't anything about expectations in it. The cool thing about this rule, is that it has NOTHING to do with how others behave. It's only about YOU. Oh, I DO understand that you DO expect certain behaviors due to this rule, but I don't get why. Maybe if you Christians would actually LIVE by it, instead of EXPECTING everybody else to, we'd be better off.

excon

EX,

LOL LOL... yep if it weren't for those darned Christians this whole WORLD would run smoother... lol

Hello again, T:

As noted above, the only thing about those darn Christians is they have "expectations" of me, and how my society should be formulated. As noted above, you seem to have gotten all that out of the golden rule. For the life of me, I can't figure out how.

Tj seems to believe that without God, people wouldn't know how to behave. He believes that, I suppose, because in his own life, without the presence of God, he HIMSELF would possibly misbehave. So, certainly with that belief, he couldn't understand how people behave WITHOUT God in their lives.

But, the truth is there ARE people who behave without any spiritual guidance at all. It's kind of ingrained in them. It's the essence of the word civilized. We became civilized over the ages. We weren't uncivilized one day, and civilized the next.

As I said earlier, I think these behaviors are evolutionery - not religious.

excon

Ex,

From what I can tell of the golden rule, there are no expectations. You should treat people the way you want to be treated.. period. Jesus goes a step further and even says to turn the other cheek. Certainly there are no expectations there. What I take a slight issue with ( and I say slight because I am not the least bit upset really) is that Cred has said that as an atheist he lives by the Golden Rule. I don't really think for one min he is going to appologize to me. But for some crazy, strange, and weird reason.. I am enjoying buggin the heck out of him. He put it out there.. not me.

As for people living under the Golden Rule before Christianity, I don't doubt it one bit. But as Tj3 has said it is biblical. As a Christian it isn't a suggestion... it is a standard. Do I fall short? Yes sometimes I do.

AND I might add, that GOD made you Ex with a conscience. It doesn't matter if you believe in him or not... he gave you that knowing of right and wrong. You can call it evolutionery if you like. Doesn't bother me one bit.

But I do NOT understand why so many people dislike Christians. I am a nice person, you'd like me in real life. So would Cred. We just disagree on GOD. Cred has decided to have it out for me just because I am a Christian. I don't get it??

Hey,I'm not mad at you atheists because you are wrong.. why be mad at me because I'm RIGHT? ;)

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Originally Posted by classyT

As for people living under the Golden Rule before Christianity, I don't doubt it one bit. But as Tj3 has said it is biblical.

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Those statements are contradictory.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Sure we can. It is in the Bible.

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Re-read what I wrote there... I said that you can't say it is a Christian thing, but you CAN say it is a Christian thing, TOO... because it is in the Bible.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Did you ever stop and think that the God who created all that there is was the source?

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I have. And THAT is my belief. God, who created all that there is, had a hand in everything... of course, He is not necessarily as described by Christianity... or any Religion, for that matter.

However, He is the same God.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Those statements are contradictory.

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Not really. Everyone claims that people were following this rule long before Christ came into the world. In reality, it IS just common courtesy. BUT the Lord Jesus put his stamp of approval on it when he told us that we should treat people the way we would want others to treat us. That is how he ALWAYS lived his life. Look, if it were ingrained in us no one would have to call it the 'golden rule" it would be automatic. It doesn't come naturally to us, it doesn't me anyway, sometimes I kind of want to get even or revenge. I don't think I am any different than anyone else. Christian or non Christian. Does that make sense?

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello Tj:

Couple things... You keep thinking people need to "hear" of the golden rule before they can abide by it. I think all they need to do is EXPERIENCE it. It DOESN'T have to be spelled out. It's not something you read. It's something you DO.

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Read your daily newspapper and tell me if it is something that authomatically key into to.

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Next; I'm baffled how you can discern expectations out of this rule. There just isn't anything about expectations in it.

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So, you are telling me that you don't think that the environment and culture that a person is brought in affects how they view proper treatment of people within the society.

We disagree. There are far too many examples of oppressive societies where some people or groups of people, or even women within the society are brought up with a mindset that they believe that they arae not deserving to be treated as having anay worth, so their definition of what good or even exceptional treatment is would be considered abusive by most of us.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Everyone claims that people were following this rule long before Christ came into the world. In reality, it IS just common courtesy.

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That's exactly what we've been saying this whole thread.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

re-read what I wrote there... I said that you can't say it is a Christian thing, but you CAN say it is a Christian thing, TOO... because it is in the Bible.

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To say that it is not Christian would mean that you would have to prove that the God of the Bible is not the source.

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I have. And THAT is my belief. God, who created all that there is, had a hand in everything... of course, He is not necessarily as described by Christianity... or any Religion, for that matter.

However, He is the same God.

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He cannot be the same God. There God of the Bible says that there are no other true gods. All other "gods" are demaons or idol, or faolse gods, according to scripture. Therefore, since He claims excluivity, any other gods cannot be the same God.

NK... I know! But where we differ is this.. I don't think it comes natural to us. I don't think people always want to do it and for the christian it isn't optional.. it is the STANDARD. I am guilty of not wanting to at times but I am called to. And Tj3 makes really good points... about environment and culture.

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Originally Posted by classyT

In reality, it IS just common courtesy.

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But like common sense, the world would be better off if it were in reality, more common! ;)

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Originally Posted by classyT

Ex,

From what I can tell of the golden rule, there are no expectations. You should treat people the way you want to be treated.. period. Jesus goes a step further and even says to turn the other cheek. Certainly there are no expectations there. What I take a slight issue with ( and I say slight because I am not the least bit upset really) is that Cred has said that as an atheist he lives by the Golden Rule. I don't really think for one min he is going to appologize to me. But for some crazy, strange, and weird reason.. I am enjoying buggin the heck out of him. He put it out there.. not me.

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Did you stop to consider he is abiding by the golden rule? That's he's not apologizing because he doesn't think he's wrong, and that's how he would want to be treated? That the way he behaves toward you is the way he would like to be treated? The golden rule imples niceness/forgiveness, but it doesn't require it. And why don't you turn the other cheek and let it go? Be the bigger person. That would be more Christ-like, right?

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As for people living under the Golden Rule before Christianity, I don't doubt it one bit. But as Tj3 has said it is biblical. As a Christian it isn't a suggestion... it is a standard. Do I fall short? Yes sometimes I do.

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If it were, in fact, held to be a standard, you wouldn't fall short, would you? Praying is a standard, going to church, having faith, believing in god, spreading your faith - those are all standards. Do you fall short on those too? Standard implies consistency, if you deviate (or if other Christians deviate from the standard), it's not a standard. It's a suggestion. Unless, of course, you want to argue it's a standard with a mathematical standard deviation... but that starts getting into some math and numbers I just don't care to examine!

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but I do NOT understand why so many people dislike Christians. I am a nice person, you'd like me in real life. So would Cred. We just disagree on GOD. Cred has decided to have it out for me just because I am a Christian. I don't get it??

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People dislike Christians because some of them (usually the most vocal ones) are pushy intolerant bigots who justify their actions and words under the guise of their religion and by hiding behind their god. Do all Christians behave this way? Of course not, but a few bad apples can ruin the bunch, right? If you eat Chinese food 100 times, from 100 different restaurants, and 99 times you get violently ill, will you have a favorable opinion of Chinese food? Probably not.

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Hey,I'm not mad at you atheists because you are wrong.. why be mad at me because I'm RIGHT? ;)

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Who's mad? But with an attitude like that, it's tough to make friends on the other side. And yes, I know you are being sarcastic. In my opinion though, using sarcasm in that manner is better left among friends. I'm not so sure you've made friends on the other side yet.

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but I do NOT understand why so many people dislike Christians. I am a nice person, you'd like me in real life. So would Cred. We just disagree on GOD. Cred has decided to have it out for me just because I am a Christian. I don't get it??

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I don't dislike Christians, I don't think Cred does either.

What I dislike is when people tell me that my beliefs are not as good as theirs. They insist that they are right, I'm wrong. Is that treating others as you want to be treated? No!

Cred also thinks that you and SassyT are one and the same. I have to admit that I did as well in the beginning. I don't think you are SassyT, your writing styles are too different, you also aren't condescending like she was.

I don't think Cred is convinced that you aren't SassyT.

I don't hate anyone because of their beliefs, I don't "hate" anyone period. Hate is a strong word. How could I hate people I've never met? I do dislike the way some people on this site act. I do find it funny that the people that give me the hardest time about my beliefs are the Christians.

I think that everyone has the right to their own beliefs, it's not for any human to judge who is right and who is wrong. That's God's decision, and I don't believe that he would ever send someone to hell just because they were Deist, muslim, Atheist etc. instead of Christian.

If we were really following the Golden rule, wouldn't we be nicer to each other on this site? I doubt anyone wants to be treated badly, or do they?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I don't dislike Christians, I don't think Cred does either.

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You haven't known him long enough. Wait a few years until you have known him as long as I have and then if you don't see the consistent pattern over several years and several different boards, you aren't paying attention!

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What I dislike is when people tell me that my beliefs are not as good as theirs. They insist that they are right, I'm wrong. Is that treating others as you want to be treated? No!

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First, there is a difference between people disagreeing with your beliefs and treating you badly. You are NOT your beliefs.

Second, Christianity and many other religions hold to exclusivity. By saying that is wrong, you are doing what you say that we should not do. You are saying that by holding to exclusivity, that my belief, my religion is not as good as yours.

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I doubt anyone wants to be treated badly, or do they?

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Study different societies and different types of people. In some societies, and even some denominational churches, they considered being treated badly to be a blessing (talk to a Roman Catholic about penance and flagellation) and some folk are just masochists.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Did you stop to consider he is abiding by the golden rule? That's he's not apologizing because he doesn't think he's wrong, and that's how he would want to be treated? That the way he behaves toward you is the way he would like to be treated? The golden rule imples niceness/forgiveness, but it doesn't require it. And why don't you turn the other cheek and let it go? Be the bigger person. That would be more Christ-like, right?



If it were, in fact, held to be a standard, you wouldn't fall short, would you? Praying is a standard, going to church, having faith, believing in god, spreading your faith - those are all standards. Do you fall short on those too? Standard implies consistency, if you deviate (or if other Christians deviate from the standard), it's not a standard. It's a suggestion. Unless, of course, you want to argue it's a standard with a mathematical standard deviation... but that starts getting into some math and numbers I just don't care to examine!



People dislike Christians because some of them (usually the most vocal ones) are pushy intolerant bigots who justify their actions and words under the guise of their religion and by hiding behind their god. Do all Christians behave this way? Of course not, but a few bad apples can ruin the bunch, right? If you eat Chinese food 100 times, from 100 different restaurants, and 99 times you get violently ill, will you have a favorable opinion of Chinese food? Probably not.



Who's mad? But with an attitude like that, it's tough to make friends on the other side. And yes, I know you are being sarcastic. In my opinion though, using sarcasm in that manner is better left among friends. I'm not so sure you've made friends on the other side yet.

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Jill,
You know what.. I was teasing with Ex. He KNOWS I was teasing and guess what Jill?. HE IS MY FRIEND. Shocking... I know.

AND maybe I haven't made friends with YOU but I have made friends on the "other side". Some people can actually look past the fact that I am a Christian and like me anyway. But I appreciate your thoughts...