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You will laugh even harder on May 22 when HSB is sitting there dining on roasted crow, broiled crow, fried crow, etc. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Remember he said he would "eat crow" if this doesn't come to fruition.
Hope he has a hearty appetite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
I think that says it all!Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Naw, at least some of Camping's followers will probably just conclude they weren't part of the elect and that's why they didn't get taken. And of course, the earthquake will have been a 0.05 on the Richter scale...Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Camping (or at least some of his followers) is already tap dancing around the May date (beginning of the Rapture) and will decide the Oct. 21st date (beginning of Judgment Day) is really the correct one. If that one doesn't pan out, there are reasons in his calculations why it didn't.
I would just like to point out that I'm just trying to get a straight answer about this entire thing.
I can't respect anyone that cannot defend their own faith--ESPECIALLY since I have had to learn to defend my own non-mainstream faith.
So HSB--you either believe the 5/21 rapture with all of your heart and can defend it completely (which you haven't shown me at all yet), or you're a charlatan and a troublemaker just set on stirring people up.
You're already proselytizing your beliefs, and this thread is really the OP trying to get you to explain and defend them---which is what the rest of us have been trying to do as well.
However, you dance around giving answers, and backtrack when someone points out that your answers either contradict each other or you direct us to go read Camping's stuff---which you apparently don't know well enough to explain to us, even though you believe it absolutely and expect the rapture on 5/21.
To top that off, many of us know the Bible better than you do, even though you claim the Bible is your ultimate reason for believing what you do. One thing you still have not answered is why YOUR interpretation (or Camping's, if you prefer) is the RIGHT version, and any other interpretation is wrong. You have NO idea how many people have decided that THEIR way is the ONLY way to read the Bible--this is at least the third theory I've heard outside of mainstream interpretations--based on how the Bible tells them to read the Bible.
Frankly, considering how many books were deleted from the Bible because of political and social reasons (for example, the books that gave women any power in the church were left out), I can't take seriously that the Bible is complete the way it is anyway. Considering how many parts of the Bible are either ignored these days (stoning to death for adultery) or have had interpretations change over the last couple hundred years (slavery used to be justified by Ham laughing at his father Noah's nakedness)--how can you claim that YOUR interpretation isn't just what you want it to say? Which, frankly, is EXACTLY what EVERY other Christian sect has done with THEIR interpretation of the Bible.
I think that I pity you, because you have fallen into the trap of having utter faith in something without completely understanding what it is you believe.
Hi Synnen,Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
The above caught my eye. Can you point me to a thread about this subject? Or, alternately, if I start a new thread about it, would you be willing (or have the time) to discuss it further?
There's not a thread that I know of. I'm basing that statement on a Bible study class (not a group through a church--I actually took a class at university on reading the Bible) that I took 15 years ago. I have the book at home (somewhere), but it was essentially a class on the different ways you can read the Bible--as literature, as history, as prose, as a moral guide, as a political reference (it's amazing how much of what Paul wrote was more political than moral). I am, however, at work right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
I'd be happy to discuss it further, but I may not be able to find the references I am thinking of very quickly.
I find this thread to be hilarious. I was just looking at some things about this. One thing that struck me as odd is after the great flood that only Noah his wife his 3 sons and their wives survived. Dude that is a lot of inbreeding to repopulate the world. But if you truly believe the world is going to end private message me and I'll give you an address where you can send all your money.
I don't find this thread necessarily funny but sad. Sad in the way that people believe in this nonsense.
The formula as described by HSB is so ludacris. I can take ANY book (bible or not) and calculate a formula to my liking. That does not make it true, or believable.
My opinion is this. When May 23rd comes around and we are all still here posting away on AMHD, Camping will be at home taking it easy. You may ask me why he would be taking it easy. That's because a man who has put himself into a hole like this would not leave himself exitless. He has conjured excuses and will propagate them throughout his followers and others after the proposed judgement day comes and goes. His forumla will vary to back his excuse and the drama will continue until the next proposed judgement day. Perhaps 2300 days did not mean 23 years, maybe it meant 23 oscillating years... so May 21st, 2034 will be judgement day ;)
I find this sad because of how much it has scared Depressed in MO. How many people, like Depressed, are tucking their kids in at night, terrified that they will never have a future, because of this?
Yes, and devastating for a parent to think they will never see their children again on this earth. Sad, sad, sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
Tick
Hello everyone, I hope I have not made everybody think I was "ducking" out of the discussion, I didn't have access to the internet during the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
I really don't have much more to say about it-I would like to make some statements though.
First of all, I apologize to everyone on here-it seems like I've got quite a few members worked up. I just want to make sure that everyone understands that it was NOT my intention at all.
Even to HSB: My purpose was not to call you out specifically so that you could get caught up in a nasty religious debate. This subject bothers me to the extremes obviously. I was looking for some answers from you to explain more about this theory and what made your heart believe in it...
Furthermore, I appreciate everyone's opinions on here and I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying that I still do not know what to believe. I'm still scared to death about the end possibly being near. I don't want to believe it, My opinion is with that of most of you-I don't believe that God would end it in such a way. I still do not know though.
I do know that I have sinned a lot in my life and I have a lot of repenting to do. If it actually really could be true, I just don't want my family to suffer-that's what worries me the most.
Depressed in MO: don't be sorry. Everyone here posts out of their own free will, and no one is obligated to read this thread or stay subscribed to it. You gave us a forum to discuss something that I believe has been on our minds/gotten on our nerves/had us wondering because of other threads.
I am sorry, HSB, for my posts that came across (and some were even intended to be) sarcastic. I respect your beliefs, regardless of how founded or factual I see them to be. Because this May 21, 2011 theory is terrifying for people and I personally view it to be fear mongering, it does upset me. That doesn't give me much of a right to be sarcastic about other people's views.
I do very much hope you're wrong. I pray you're wrong. We'll find out.
I feel exactly the same way!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
As a Christian you should not be scared. Instead you should be looking foreword to spending eternity with Christ. Now, if you are not a Christian I can see how this discussion would bother you.
I went to bible school when I was from kindergarten; I was raised as they told me that I was Anglican. Is being a christian a relaltive term because I think it is. I am not scared of the outcome, and I thought, (excuse me) this started in another thread that this was about the Mayan calender. How did this discussion become so completely religious. Some of us don't subscribe to this way of thinking but here it is, in all its glory with scripitures being quoted, etal.
Sorry, I am quite happy with my lot in life, I am working hard, paying my bills, loving my family and I am really not afraid to go (at the moment) my son hates me making plans and he knows I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered on a beach of my choosing. So, what is there actually to do? I am enjoying what I have left.
By the way my avvy is my art in stained glass, I am sorry I can't display it bigger; but being gifted in my art form is a good part of my happiness.
Tick
This thread concerns the prediction of the Rapture at the end of May 2011 and Judgment Day in Oct. The religious aspect is implicit because the man responsible for this prediction is an off-the-beaten-path Protestant who owns a religious radio station in TN, I think, and is constantly on the air talking about the end of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by tickle
I'm going to go slightly off topic, just to address this part of your post.Quote:
Furthermore, I appreciate everyone's opinions on here and I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying that I still do not know what to believe. I'm still scared to death about the end possibly being near. I don't want to believe it, My opinion is with that of most of you-I don't believe that God would end it in such a way. I still do not know though
I am not Christian, so I don't know if you'll take comfort in anything that I have to say, but I do speak from my heart, so I hope you'll listen.
If by some chance all this end of the world stuff is true, then there's nothing at all anyone can do about it, other then the God you believe in.
One thing I can tell you. If the end of the world is near, then worrying about it every day and night, isn't going to change a thing.
You could walk out of your house tomorrow and get hit by a car and die. You could find out tomorrow that you have terminal cancer and only have a short time to live. You could be gunned down on the street by some madman. Anything can happen. Every day we have on earth is a gift. Every single minute we have with our loved ones is a gift. Live life that way and you can't go wrong, even if the end of the world is next month.
I watched both of my parents die of cancer 6 1/2 months apart. I was 30 when they died. They were way too young to go. I may not have faith in God, but losing my parents gave me a gift, I found my faith in life. Since that time I live each day as if it was my last. I hug my kids every chance I get. I never miss an opportunity to tell someone I love them. Each moment is precious. Not because I'm trying to get to heaven, not because I believe the end is near, only because I choose to live, however long that may be.
If I die tomorrow, I'm at peace. I lived my life the best way I could. I have no regrets.
Please, don't worry about tomorrow. Live for today. :)
Thank You Alty. Someone who finally put into words what I couldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Of the doctrines Mr.Camping promotes:
I. the Method of Bible Interpretation.
II. The Character of Salvation and the Character of Judgment.
III. The Time-Line of History including the precise time of Judgment (May 21, 2011).
Item III is the most subject to doubt. I had hoped the urgency might influence people to re-examine their own views on items I. and II. To me those two doctrines are much less doubtful. If item III fails to occur precisely as predicted, for me personally items I and II will continue to be as before. In that case item III will have to be re-evaluated.
To be honest, I admit that I have moments of doubt. If I didn't I wouldn't be human. But it seems to me the teachings are so well thought out and supported by the Bible that it's difficult not to believe.
I can see where altering I. to be perceived in a specific way (Camping's way) could make III. Believable. Without following Camping word for word, what do you believe? With all of your time studying the bible and the word of God... what do you believe?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
As stated before I can take ANY book and re-interpret it anyway I want. Dig way deep into the simplest meanings and conjure a formula to support a theory.
Just because the bible does in fact say certain things, does not mean Camping's interpreation of such is accurate or justifies his formula. Every word, sentence, phrase, story can be interpreted different ways by different people. Why is Camping's theory so compelling? Is it because it's difficult to understand, well thought out and precise, leaving it difficult to not believe.
If I believed in every well thought out scam... I would be broke!
ITstudent2006
Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread. You seem like a nice person. But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke. I'm not just talking generalities here. What I have called "the method" is not a method at all in the conventional sense. The Bible itself gives specific rules and guidelines. And Mr.Camping follows them. Unlike many other Bible teachers who do not.
Want to discuss more ?
1. The Bible may or may not give rules and guidelines. It does not give exact interpretation of every word, sentence and phrase. Please show me these rules the Bible have set forth on how to accurately interpret it's content in it's entirety.
2. "Want to discuss more?" This is an arrogant tone. Plain and simple, you seem very arrogant and biased towards "non-believers" specifically, "non-Camping believers". Again, you are very cunning in the way you dance around questions and only answer with bigger words and twisted meanings of previous statements to throw the topic array.
I take in consideration that you have been backed into a corner by ALL members of this thread but lashing out instead of keeping you demeanor, to me, shows doubt. Instead of handling this tactfully you create arrogant, sarcastic responses belittling any imposer to your belief... sad really!
Can you link us to M. Campings complete description of his methodology please. I thinks it's the only way for us to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Quote:
ITstudent2006: 1. The Bible may or may not give rules and guidelines. It does not give exact interpretation of every word, sentence and phrase. Please show me these rules the Bible have set forth on how to accurately interpret it's content in it's entirety.
2. "Want to discuss more?" This is an arrogant tone. Plain and simple, you seem very arrogant and biased towards "non-believers" specifically, "non-Camping believers". Again, you are very cunning in the way you dance around questions and only answer with bigger words and twisted meanings of previous statements to throw the topic array.
I take in consideration that you have been backed into a corner by ALL members of this thread but lashing out instead of keeping you demeanor, to me, shows doubt. Instead of handling this tactfully you create arrogant, sarcastic responses belittling any imposer to your belief... sad really!
As I expected. Your reply puzzles me. Sentence 1. Expresses skepticism, and yet you claim to want to see the rules. Why ? You're obviously way too smart to learn anything from a cultist like myself.
Number 2. was simply an invitation. Nothing more. I feel sorry that it brought out the feelings of contempt that you've expressed.
I ask you again. Do you want to discuss, rationally ? Or do you want to hurl accusations ? The choice is yours.
I have already given the web address. Here it is again... http://www.familyradio.com.Quote:
HeadStrongBoy: But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke.
NeedKarma: Can you link us to M. Campings complete description of his methodology please. I thinks it's the only way for us to understand.
As far as I remember there is not one specific publication that simply lists the rules found in the Bible that relate to interpretation. That particular subject is a special interest of mine. But I'd be glad to list them for your below.
[1]Every word of the entire Bible is directly from the mouth of God. 2 Peter 1:21, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4, Jeremiah 36:2, John 17:17, 2 Timothy 3:16.
[2]God speaks in parables in many places in the Bible. Job 27:1, Psalm 78:2, Proverbs 26:9, Matthew 13:34.
[3]We need to compare scriptures before coming to any conclusions. 1 Corinthians 2:13, Isaiah 28:10.
[4]The importance and meaning of numbers as God uses them in the Bible. This is NOT a method of numerology.
[5]Realizing that the New Testament and the Old Testament are really one covenant. Hebrews 10:16.
[6]Realizing that unless God Himself opens our minds we will not perceive truth. Luke 24:45. And realizing that God also sends strong delusion to those He wishes to harden. Exodus 7:13, 2 Timothy 2:11.
[7]Realizing that the Bible is a living book. God is actively engaged in every aspect of it's teaching. Hebrews 4:12. In this context the word quick means "alive" or "living."
As you see I have not given references for every rule. Some issues do not easily lend themselves to very plain exposition. And I do not feel expert enough at this moment to elaborate. And it is also possible to combine some rules under a major sub-heading to simplify the structure of the outline. But it is a work in progress because God treats each of us as individuals who have different capabilities. But that's a very rough outline. And above all humility and prayer are required. God is watching.
Thanks for the link. The info seems to be in this PDF: http://www.familyradio.com/PDFS/waat.pdf It's a long one and already it has issues.
He says:
But earlier he says:Quote:
However, in order to give authority to the verses they are using to teach
What they want to teach, Bible teachers declare that the Bible is infallible and
Without error. But they actually do not believe that this is really true of each and
Every word in the whole Bible. If they did believe the whole Bible was infallible,
They would never speak of such things as scribal error. They do not understand
That God has protected His Word so that a scribal error could not occur.
Is he not contradicting himself?Quote:
In Hebrews 8:8, the Bible declares:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith
The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel
And with the house of Judah:
In this verse, the phrase “I will make a new covenant” should have
Been translated “I will finish a new covenant.”
Also he says:So why set Christmas on a Pagan holiday?Quote:
Considerable evidence in the Bible points to the fact that, in all
Likelihood, Jesus, who is the very essence of the jubilee, was born on October 2,
In 7 B.C
Another quaint quote:
And later he goes on to manke many wild interpretations (p.34)Quote:
But then, as we shall discover in this study, 2,300 days after the
Beginning of the great tribulation, God's final great salvation program began.
That day of history was September 7, 1994 (A.D.). It was on that date that God
Again poured out His Holy Spirit, so that for the next 17 years, all over the world,
A great multitude of people would become saved.* Indeed, no one was aware of
This awesome action of God at the time it occurred. But the Bible assures us that
It did occur.
It has all the feel of a cult document, or of someone who believes they are a chosen prophet.
No he is not contradicting himself. We need to understand the difference between the Word as given in the original languages, and the translation into our modern languages. He is referring to scribal error of the original manuscript only (which does not exist anymore). Translations and copies can have errors. And it is true that God can manipulate anything to suit His purpose, including errors. Also you're forgetting rule number [6]. God knows why you're questioning this particular issue. He knows the intricacies of your mind and your heart. I do not.Quote:
he says: However, in order to give authority to the verses they are using to teach
What they want to teach, Bible teachers declare that the Bible is infallible and
Without error. But they actually do not believe that this is really true of each and
Every word in the whole Bible. If they did believe the whole Bible was infallible,
They would never speak of such things as scribal error. They do not understand
That God has protected His Word so that a scribal error could not occur. But earlier he says:
Quoting : In Hebrews 8:8, the Bible declares:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith
The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel
And with the house of Judah:
In this verse, the phrase “I will make a new covenant” should have
Been translated “I will finish a new covenant.”
NeedKarma: Is he not contradicting himself?
Nah, he doesn't. That's true for all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Headstrongboy-Can I ask what version of the bible you use? Thank you for your references that you just gave I really want to read them from the version you do so that I can try to understand where you're coming from.
So in essence you are FINALLY confirming that you believe that Camping's interpretation is the ONLY correct interpretation, and the rest of us can't really read or understand the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Of course you're completely entitled to your feelings. But you asked me for the list of rules that refer to Bible interpretation. Then you go off on a tangent. Again your privilege.Quote:
NeedKarma: It has all the feel of a cult document, or of someone who believes they are a chosen prophet.
I personally do not consider Mr.Camping as the final authority. Neither do I consider my own opinion as the final authority. Learning from the Bible (Which is my goal. I don't know about you.) is a painstaking and slow process that requires we look at the Bible as the authority.
I did not put the list out there just to stroke my ego. God gives us His knowledge of the Bible so that we may diligently apply it. Something that you are apparently not about to do.
I see your point-I guess ultimately I'm afraid of death and I'm afraid of witnessing the death of my family. It's just all so hard to grasp no matter how I look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
No tangent, I commented directly to the material and person in question. If you feel that I did not follow the discussion line as per your vison then that is your privilege to be erroneous.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
I lead a good life without applying the rules of a book. But thanks for inquiring. Take care and good luck with your impending death.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Thank you for sharing this, this is very nice and comforting. I was actually raised baptist but was also always taught to live each day as its last and to let every person in my life know every day how much I love them.
The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.:o
I'm never sure what to say to someone like yourself, who has such powerful authority over me.Quote:
Synnen: So in essence you are FINALLY confirming that you believe that Camping's interpretation is the ONLY correct interpretation, and the rest of us can't really read or understand the Bible.
Let me put it this way. I believe that Camping's approach is the most accurate that I have found so far.
As far as my opinion about "the rest of us"... What does it have to do with anything ?
I think she is referring to the few billion christians who haven't come to the same conclusions as M. Camping, that would even include lifelong biblical scholars.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
HeadStrongBoy-before the conversation veers off from the bible verses too much longer, may I please know the version of the bible you use?
Your comments strike me as those of a human being. I can relate to the feelings of paranoia. Unfortunately one drowning person is not of much help to another drowning person.Quote:
Depressed in MO: The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.
Get my drift ?
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