Ouch! Wondergirl, I think I'm officially scared. Hee hee. ;) Be gentle with me.. I cry easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
|
Ouch! Wondergirl, I think I'm officially scared. Hee hee. ;) Be gentle with me.. I cry easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And when sin entered in, everything went topsy turvy. Weeds spouted, animals killed and ate each other, man had to work for a living, women had pain in childbirth, and not only were men attracted to women, they were also attracted to other men.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I didn't realize you are a moderator.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Me too. That's why I thought it odd when you brought it up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
As for orientation, Wondergirl's definition of *sexual* orientation looks good to me. Can't see how nautical or other uses of the term are on point. Why not stick with the *relevant* sense of "orientation".Quote:
Really? How would you expects homosexuals to multiply?
Now you are starting to understand. As men entered into sin, they chose sinful orientations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I didn't - read carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Well, if we cannot come to terms on what an "orientation" actually is, then to discuss what a specific type of orientation is will be no less clear to you.Quote:
As for orientation, Wondergirl's definition of *sexual* orientation looks good to me. Can't see how nautical or other uses of the term are on point.
So, humour me, what do you believe an orientation is?
hey, I'm teasin you. I agree with you as far as the state of the world after sin entered in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Tee hee... I don't think she is starting to understand...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
No, not a choice, but from birth -- just as many are born heterosexuals (and don't choose it), others are born homosexuals (and don't choose it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
His "opinion" was only approval of you. He did not add to the discussion in any way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You asked for my definition of orientation. I told you I will go with Wikipedia's. What more do you want?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Really? And where do you find that in scripture, and why then are men able to choose?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Rom 1:18-32
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
NKJV
I keep asking you for a generic definition of what you believe an orientation is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Why do you refuse?
I might be more inclined to humor you if it didn't seem so much like a pointless diversion. We're talking about sexual orientation. A definition of "sexual orientation" has been proffered. I can see no reason not to stay on subject. If the nautical meaning of "orientation" is relevant in any way, I confess I must be stupid, because I just don't see how.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
How old were you when you chose heterosexuality?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
AMEN! How do you get around these verses? I don't get it. He says it is not natural.. to me that means they are NOT BORN THIS WAY!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Same question to you. When did you choose to be heterosexual instead of homosexual?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Wondergirl,
I was BORN that way. Want to know how I wasn't born... a drug addict. I chose that lifesyle when I got addicted to prescription drugs. Course the world tells me I was born that way but I know better. You take enough of those suckers and you are going to get addicted. It was MY choice to take the pills.
I don't pretend to understand homosexual tendencies but I do believe God's word and I'm not going to rationalize what he has said. It is wrong and I can't twist it to make it right.
What you think the word "natural" means? I ask because it's not obvious to me why not natural entails that they are not born this way. Do you regard birth defects as unnatural? People are born with those every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
LOL... birth defects aren't sin. Sin is a choice.
Scripture says that we are created man and woman, not created homosexual. As the quote that I gave from Romans says is that God has condemned homosexuals. Does God create people as homosexuals and then condemn them for being what He created them? Is that your view of God?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Tj3,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Do you understand the word "generic"? You may wish to look it up in the dictionary. It does not mean "nautical". Your mis-understanding of what the word orientation means may explain some of the difficultly we are having in discussing this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Right. So if someone is born homosexual, then they are not in sin just for being homosexual. If they act on that, though, that's another story. Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
As were 98% of the homosexuals in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Your drug problem was choice, as is cigarette smoking, overeating, drug use, driving without a license, and drinking to excess. You may have been born with a tendency/weakness for drug use, if one or both of your parents had their brain chemistry screwed up by drugs and thus your brain chemistry got screwed up too (synapses don't fire correctly, neurotransmitters go to the wrong receptors, etc.) -- you inherited those weaknesses. You could have said no, but it was easier to give in and it make your body happier when you gave in.
But saying that they are born that way contradicts scripture as I just showed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
If you say so. I've already endorsed the definition Wondergirl provided, and nowhere in the definiens is the word "orientation" included, so I'm pretty sure I understand the definition. And I'm reasonably confidant that I understand the meaning of "attraction" as it occurs there. Do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Really? That is contrary to both scripture and secular findings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
See my reply to ClassyT: Depends how you understand "natural". If "unnatural" means something like "violates the law of God", then the Scripture you cited is perfectly compatible with one's being born homosexual. The word "natural" gets used in lots of different ways. One has to be careful how one uses it, and how one reads it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
And those are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Wondergirl and Akoue,
I'm not the one who said it was unnatural... God did. I didn't define what sin was... God did. I didn't set the standard God did. I mean I am only getting my info from the word of God. I'm not hating on homosexuals, I'm not belittling anyone. I'm Not setting the standard of right and wrong. I'm getting this from the word.He said it is wrong and I agree with Tj3. Why would the Lord make someone homosexual and then condemn them for it??
Again, "generic" does not mean sexual. If you think it does, you might have a rather embarrassing mis-understanding if you find out that your drug plan at work only pays for "generic" drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Wow - over 250 messages discussing scripture and you missed the entire discussion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
And from the secular world, not a single credible study has yet concluded that sexual orientation was something that people are born with.
Of course homosexuality was not part of God's plan when He created a perfect world. And yes, homosexuality wasn't part of the picture -- He created men and women to be fruitful and multiply. But then something happened to upset God's plan, didn't it. Adam and Eve ate from the forbidden tree. God's perfect plan was no more. The world became imperfect, and death happened. As people were born into the world, they were born imperfect -- with physical and mental defects and illnesses. They died before or at birth. They also were born not only as heterosexuals, but also as homosexuals.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Our discussion is about sexuality and sexual orientation. Why do you want to go orienteering?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
So you are saying homosexuality is a mental defect or metal illness?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Then why would God condemn those who are homosexuals?
BTW, in my opinion, I would think homosexuals would be more insulted by someone saying that they had a mental illness or defect at birth rather than that homosecxuality is what scripture says, a sin.
Jesus came and died on the cross that we have an answer for sin, and homosexuals have been changed by the blood shed on the cross according to scripture.
You and Akoue seem to have some difficulties with the English language, specigfically the words "generic" and "orientation". I never saw anyone with that specific problem before, let alone two. Perhaps there is something that scares the both of you about acknowledging what the word orientation means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
No, if you read carefully, you will see that I said homosexuality came about because of the Fall -- like army ants and black widow spiders and weeds. None of those were part of a perfect Creation.Quote:
So you are saying homosexuality is a mental defect or metal illness?
Then please be clear - are you saying that it is a mental defect or sin? You were the one who brought up the terms mental defect and mental illness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Interesting that you would rush to that particular conclusion. Typically, when one or more person fails to understand what one has said, the first thing to pop into mind would be, "Gee, maybe it's my fault". Nope. Not you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:02 AM. |