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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Trust me. Nothing is going to happen. It already happened a couple of thousand years ago.

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Sorry Sweetheart! I'm totally dogmatic on this one! But I will ask, if Revelation happened, what are we doing here now? What is our purpose? Why is there evil in this world? In the end of Revelation, there is a New Heaven and a New Earth - both perfect- in existence. Was there then a Second Fall of Man that we don't know about? (Think a minute... don't answer too quickly)

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

You believe God created in six 24-hour days?

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YES! Definitely! He IS God, after all, right?
Think about the Creation:
Day 1: Light and darkness
D 2: The heavens - sky
D3: Dry land and plants
D4: Sun, moon, and stars
D5: Fish and birds
D6: Land animals and man

My point:
The plants were created before the Sun. A plant without sunlight could last a day, but really? A plant must have sunlight. If it had taken God eons to create everything, the plants would have died.

Besides, if He couldn't create the world in 6 literal 24 hour days, what makes Him God?

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Originally Posted by RJ16

Sorry Sweetheart! I'm totally dogmatic on this one! But I will ask, if Revelation happened, what are we doing here now? What is our purpose? Why is there evil in this world? In the end of Revelation, there is a New Heaven and a New Earth - both perfect- in existence. Was there then a Second Fall of Man that we don't know about? (Think a minute...don't answer too quickly)

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I'm not your sweetheart.

What we are doing here now is loving God and treating our neighbors as ourselves, doing our best to love them as God does. Evil exists because God gave man a free will, and man messed up big time. We are still living under the First Fall and waiting for the Last Day.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Consider what he says, not how he says it.

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Knowledge and wisdom from God are two different things. You go on ahead and consider what he has to say. As far as I am concerned his contempt for christains of this board and for the Word of God, leaves anything he has to contribute null and void in my mind. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I'm not your sweetheart.

What we are doing here now is loving God and treating our neighbors as ourselves, doing our best to love them as God does. Evil exists because God gave man a free will, and man messed up big time. We are still living under the First Fall and waiting for the Last Day.

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Sorry - I call people "sweetheart" and "dear" all the time. I'll try to refrain from doing that to you.

I don't understand you exactly. The above statements are totally true. You are right. But those statements, and the belief that Revelation already happened, contradict each other. The Last Day is spoken of in Revelation. You said Revelation already happened, but apparently the Last Day hasn't? And what about the New Earth? Also, in Revelation, Satan is throne into the Lake of Fire... why then is there still evil in this world? Satan is the "father of lies" , the first murderer, and the father of all evil. If Revelation was over, Satan and all other evil doers would be done away with, and the present Earth would be perfect.

You must decide: either 1) Revelation happened and the world we live in is perfect; or
2) The world is still evil, suffering from the First Fall, and Revelation is still to come.
You can't mix and match!

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Originally Posted by RJ16

Sorry - I call people "sweetheart" and "dear" all the time. I'll try to refrain from doing that to you.

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I took it as a put-down.

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I don't understand you exactly. The above statements are totally true. You are right. But those statements, and the belief that Revelation already happened, contradict each other. The Last Day is spoken of in Revelation. You said Revelation already happened, but apparently the Last Day hasn't?

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No. Jesus will return on the Last Day.

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And what about the New Earth?

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No New Earth that I know of. This earth will disappear when Jesus returns. Are you a Witness?

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Also, in Revelation, the Satan is throne into the Lake of Fire... why then is there still evil in this world?

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throne = something a king sits on
thrown = tossed aside

There is evil in this world because Jesus hasn't returned yet. We are still in the End Times.

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Satan is the "father of lies" , the first murderer, and the father of all evil. If Revelation was over, Satan and all other evil doers would be done away with, and the present Earth would be perfect.

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Revelation was written in code and for a much earlier audience of readers. The Roman Empire is gone, thus Revelation has been fulfilled.

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You must decide: either 1) Revelation happened and the world we live in is perfect; or 2) The world is still evil, suffering from the Fall, and Revelation is still to come. You can't mix and match!

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#2. How could one not say the world is still evil? And Revelation's day has come and gone.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Curtis,

According to the bible in Revelation anyone who rejects the gospel is cast in the lake of fire forever and ever.

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I think this may be out of context to the question being asked. Revelations is about the end of times and not the times we live in. If someone has rejected God throughout their life there is still a chance for redemption in the after life when Jesus will rise again. That will be the time of judgement and not before that time.

Cdad,

From what I can tell that passage I was referring to happens in the future. At the Great White throne judgement. I never meant to imply otherwise. How is that out of context with the question asked. I am confused. I think I answered it.

Also be very very careful about putting an S on Revelation. WG really doesn't like it... it is an honest mistake because I did it and I know better. But she is a stickler. Ha

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Originally Posted by classyT

Also be very very careful about putting an S on Revelation. WG really doesn't like it...it is an honest mistake because I did it and i know better. But she is a stickler. ha

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Cdad is one of my favorites, so I forgive him. But CURTIS put an s on it!! Horrors! Maybe he is oppressed!! Or possessed?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Cdad is one of my favorites, so I forgive him. But CURTIS put an s on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Horrors! Maybe he is oppressed!!!!! or possessed?

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Actually putting the "S" on Revelation gets under my skin as well as it kind of twists the meaning of the whole book. It's not a book filled with "relvelations" about the future. It's a book about the Revelation of Jesus Christ as the soon coming eternal King.

And of course anyone who thinks otherwise is possessed... or oppressed... haven't figured it out yet ;)

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

And of course anyone who thinks otherwise is possessed...or oppressed...haven't figured it out yet ;)

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Since it is snowing here to beat the band, I will agree I am oppressed (not possessed--yet).

Same here!

The Catholic faith (the only one I can really speak of with any knowledge) teaches that when one knows the truth of Christianity and then rejects it, will go to hell. Many people fall into the category of never knowing. And so, contrary to popular belief, Catholics do not believe that all non-Catholics go to hell.

In other words, once people know God and know the truth of His presence, they can choose to accept Him and do their best to live per his will, or they can choose to reject him. It is that conscious act of rejection that condemns the individual.

The church also offers reconciliation for when we do fail - we forget or make a self-serving decision that disrespects Him and His will for us, we can ask and be forgiven, and return to a state of grace.

Wg and HH-

Ha ha... your comments made me laugh. It is snowing here too. That ONLY means I will be on askme ALL day tomorrow. Lol... depressing thought to many. :)

dontknownuthin,

Now see, I believe the LORD JESUS offers reconciliation for the believer that falls. It is personal and has nothing to do with the church. Well, that is what I believe the bible says anyway.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Cdad,

From what I can tell that passage I was referring to happens in the future. At the Great White throne judgement. I never meant to imply otherwise. How is that out of context with the question asked. I am confused. I think i answered it.

Also be very very careful about putting an S on Revelation. WG really doesn't like it...it is an honest mistake because I did it and i know better. But she is a stickler. ha

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Maybe Im looking at it wrong but here is my thinking on it. Having lived a life and not accepting God then your soul is not doomed until the day of judgement. So there is a chance for redemption and salvation and it is after that point where casting into the lake of fire takes place.

So what I am saying and thinking on this is that there is a second chance at acceptance. As you said - in the future.

cdad,

I hear your heart. God is NOT willing any should perish. I believe God's grace is far bigger than we think.

After a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ and is waiting for the Great White Throne judgement... I'm not seeing any hope. If I am wrong please feel free to enlighten me.Give me scripture if you can.

I have tried to make it clear that the Lord Jesus who IS the epitome of Grace will do everything he has to to reach people. I believe that because I KNOW HIM and because he is LOVE. He isn't willing ANY should perish. However we must come to terms with the fact, there are going to be those who reject him. Certainly Judas did. It is a choice. TODAY it is a choice... I don't think ANYone should put off the question... What will YOU do with the Christ? It begs and answer.

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Originally Posted by classyT

cdad,

I hear your heart. God is NOT willing any should perish. I believe God's grace is far bigger than we think.

After a person rejects the Lord Jesus Christ and is waiting for the Great White Throne judgement...I'm not seeing any hope. If I am wrong please feel free to enlighten me.Give me scripture if you can.

I have tried to make it clear that the Lord Jesus who IS the epitome of Grace will do everything he has to to reach people. I believe that because I KNOW HIM and because he is LOVE. He isn't willing ANY should perish. However we must come to terms with the fact, there are going to be those who reject him. Certainly Judas did. It is a choice. TODAY it is a choice....i don't think ANYone should put off the question...What will YOU do with the Christ? It begs and answer.

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This explains it far better then I can.

Will everyone have a chance for salvation? What happens after death / at the resurrection / at Judgment Day? - Bible FAQ | United Church of God

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

"I took it as a put-down."


I apologize. Really. I meant no put down or offense. You know the saying, "you can take a gal out of the South, but you can't take the South out of a gal!"

"No. Jesus will return on the Last Day."

I agree. Jesus will return on the Last Day - which is described in Revelation chapter 4.

"No New Earth that I know of. This earth will disappear when Jesus returns. Are you a Witness?"

The New Earth will come into being with the new heaven. Revelation 21:1 " and I saw a new heaven and a new earth"
"For the new heavens and the new earth, which I shall
make, shall remain before me..." Isaiah 66: 22
"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherin dwelleth righteousness" II Peter 3:13
And I am not sure what you mean by "witness".

"throne = something a king sits on
thrown = tossed aside"

Thank you for the spelling correction. I missed that.

"There is evil in this world because Jesus hasn't returned yet. We are still in the End Times."

I agree.

"Revelation was written in code and for a much earlier audience of readers. The Roman Empire is gone, thus Revelation has been fulfilled. "

I disagree. Revelation is nor referring to the Roman Empire, and none of the Bible is in code.

"#2. How could one not say the world is still evil? and Revelation's day has come and gone."

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I didn't say the world isn't evil.(Believe me. I know this world is evil. I see it all around me) I'm just trying to find where you are coming from. The events that you and I both know haven't happened yet, (Jesus' return, etc.), are described in Revelation. I don't see how Revelation could have happened yet.

(I'm sorry... this looks like I'm quoting you even in my responses! How do I change it and break it all up?)

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Originally Posted by dontknownuthin

The Catholic faith (the only one I can really speak of with any knowledge) teaches that when one knows the truth of Christianity and then rejects it, will go to hell. Many people fall into the category of never knowing. And so, contrary to popular belief, Catholics do not believe that all non-Catholics go to hell.

In other words, once people know God and know the truth of His presence, they can choose to accept Him and do their best to live per his will, or they can choose to reject him. It is that concious act of rejection that condemns the individual.

The church also offers reconciliation for when we do fail - we forget or make a self-serving decision that disrespects Him and His will for us, we can ask and be forgiven, and return to a state of grace.

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I didn't know that about Catholics. I've heard all sorts of things, but not that! Thanks

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Originally Posted by RJ16

I don't see how Revelation could have happened yet.

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Read up on the history of and discussion about Revelation and why it almost didn't make the cut into the canon.