Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

Micsadaisy,
I agree with your post to Animeluver06 the 15 year old.
The search for good Christian religious experience MUST be with and through Jesus Christ in regard to what he did, taught, and demonstrated via word ad deed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

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Yes, the search for a good CHRISTIAN experience would be through Christ. Obviously, since Christianity is based on the belief in Christ as the son of God.

But that doesn't mean that a good RELIGIOUS experience needs to be through Christ. There are many ways to have a good RELIGIOUS experience without worshipping Jesus Christ. That's the mistake that Micsadaisy makes.

And its even possible In my opinion, to have a good spiritual experience without adhereing to any organized religion.

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Originally Posted by arcura

talaniman,
Is there such a thing?
To me everything spiritual is in some way religious becuase some form of spiritual belief is needed to have a spiritual experience.

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I can hardly believe you said that acura- I was thinking along the same lines.
Even the devil believes there's a God. I wonder what kind of relationship someone can have with God when they do not have the Holy Spirit! I was like that once. I could even talk to God-but never got any recognition-God was so distant. He wasn't close, in my heart.
And most of all I wasn't obeying what He said about his Son or believing His Word(the Bible)
My spirit was dead. :(

Retrotia,
I don't believe in any of those things yet my spirit is very much alive and happy. There are alternatives to being fundamentalist.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Retrotia,
I don't believe in any of those things yet my spirit is very much alive and happy. There are alternatives to being fundamentalist.

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I'm sorry, I thought you were a Christian. But then again your username should have been a clue to me.

I'm not a fundamentalist. But then again, I'd rather be that then a far-left liberal. Just a thought. :)

Good day People:

We as Christians, or at least myself, have a hope that is undefiled and imperishable. You can label it anything you want. God labels it faith. Jehovah God, He is my father, not yours who don't believe. There is truth and there is lie. There are no gray areas. You can take the truth and seek with all your heart, soul, and strength, or you can choose to reject it. It is up to you. Our God and Father, the Lord Jesus Christ has given us all a choice. You all have a choice, however, God has also highly exalted Him (Jesus) and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD to the glory of God the Father." There is no room for Buddha's name, or Alla or any other, so you choose, but in the end, you will have no more time to make a choice.

Those who do not choose God will not be forced to reside in the heavenly realm with Him. He will never use His power to force anyone into submission. He will simply put you away where you will never have to listen to Him again and neither will He have to listen to you.

Be reminded. He loves you immensly and does not wish to be apart from you. There is a way to worship the one and only true God, Scott. It is through Spirit and Truth. You cannot worship what you do not know. Read Romans 1.

Good Day to you all.

[QUOTE=ScottGem]I just noticed this thread and frankly I am both thrilled and appalled by some of the posts here. The posts by Irulan and Orange were especially intelligent and thoughtful. Excuse me, but both the New Testament and the Koran start with the Old Testament, what the Jewish religion calls The Bible.

As to Heaven and Hell being very real as Boswee and Fr Chuck claim. I would like to know how you know that. Have you been there? Have you spoken to anyone who has been there? The fact is you BELIEVE they exist based on your faith in words that were written down by men purporting to be the "Word of God". You are entitled to your beliefs and what you believe in may be true. But to express them as irrefutable fact is just wrong.



We go by faith, Scott, and not by sight. The Bible was written by men but 'breathed' by God. It is the infallible Word of God and it will never leave our world. We are charged to go forth and make disciples of the nation, proclaiming the TRUTHS set therein.


Our faith is not organized religion. You would not know because you do not believe...

We as Christians, or at least myself, have a hope that is undefiled and imperishable. You can label it anything you want. God labels it faith. Jehovah God, He is my father, not yours who don't believe. There is truth and there is lie. There are no gray areas. You can take the truth and seek with all your heart, soul, and strength, or you can choose to reject it. It is up to you. Our God and Father, the Lord Jesus Christ has given us all a choice. You all have a choice, however, God has also highly exalted Him (Jesus) and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD to the glory of God the Father." There is no room for Buddha's name, or Alla or any other, so you choose, but in the end, you will have no more time to make a choice.

Those who do not choose God will not be forced to reside in the heavenly realm with Him. He will never use His power to force anyone into submission. He will simply put you away where you will never have to listen to Him again and neither will He have to listen to you.

Be reminded. He loves you immensly and does not wish to be apart from you. There is a way to worship the one and only true God, Scott. It is through Spirit and Truth. You cannot worship what you do not know. Read Romans 1.

Try and have a good, Scott. Micsadaisy and others are praying for you. See if He doesn't keep tapping on your door. Don't answer it if you don't want to be placed on the side of Truth.

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Originally Posted by Micsadaisy

Don't answer it if you don't want to be placed on the side of Truth.

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We are on the side of the truth whether you tell us so or not.

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Originally Posted by Retrotia

But then again, I'd rather be that then a far-left liberal. Just a thought. :)

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Being a far-anything is bad in my opinion. It puts you in the "fanatic" department and clouds one's judgement in all matters.

Hey my mate believes in God as well which I respect him for because I have a completely different religion to him but he swears and drinks and watches porn but he loves God he believes in heaven and hell, he reads the bible and memorises it, he goes to church and helps them out there (in fact he's gone to help out this easter) but its just a stereotypical view of the christian society, that something slightly sinful is wrong, God is more likely to forgive you for little things as long as you know you have done wrong.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Being a far-anything is bad in my opinion. It puts you in the "fanatic" department and clouds one's judgement in all matters.

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Well then, I wouldn't want to be that obviously. But you didn't say- if you are a Christian or not.

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Originally Posted by emo-angel

hey my mate believes in God as well which i respect him for because i have a completely different religion to him but he swears and drinks and watches porn but he loves God he believes in heaven and hell, he reads the bible and memorises it, he goes to church and helps them out there (in fact hes gone to help out this easter) but its just a stereotypical view of the christian society, that something slightly sinful is wrong, God is more likely to forgive you for little things as long as you know you have done wrong.

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Well, sounds like only your mate knows if he has accepted Jesus or not.

See, the problem is: when someone believes in the Bible(the Word of God) and they engage in pornography-abuse alcohol & the like. What happens is they will always being getting consequences in their life for sin. Namely lust, & sexual immorality. So the more mature someone gets in the Faith the more they learn these things.
If someone isn't in the Faith, as you might imagine- their not covered by the blood Of Christ--& the consequences for them can be worse- the Devil can have a field day with that person & their consequences can be much worse.

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Originally Posted by Micsadaisy

We go by faith, Scott, and not by sight.


There is a way to worship the one and only true God, Scott. It is through Spirit and Truth. You cannot worship what you do not know. Read Romans 1.

Don't answer it if you don't want to be placed on the side of Truth.

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You just don't get it, do you? You and all the other evangelistic proselytizers who are intolerant of anyone else who doesn't share your beliefs. If I can be happy that you are comfortable in your beliefs why can't you be comfortable that others are happy with theirs?

I agree, you go by faith. And, unlike you, I believe you are entitled to your beliefs and your faith. But truth requires facts. You can't have truth were there is no verification.

If you do not go by sight then you do not see. I know many Christians who are strong in their beliefs yet humanist and tolerant to allow others their own beliefs. When I was growing up, my family attended the Brotherhood Synagogue in NYC. This synagogue shared its building with an Episcopal church. We respected each others religions and each other's rights to worship as they believe.

The golden rule is Do unto others as you would have then do unto you. Would you like it others told you their way was the only true way? Would you like it if others told you that your soul would be lost if you don't embrace their god?

Then how can pervert the teachings of Christ to be so intolerant?

I can hardly believe you said that acura- I was thinking along the same lines.
Even the devil believes there's a God.
I Don't know what the devil believes nor do I care and since you know him better than I, I will take your word for it.
I wonder what kind of relationship someone can have with God when they do not have the Holy Spirit!
Not knowing the relationship then what makes you think I have no Holy spirit?
I was like that once.
You should have remain so.
I could even talk to God
Quite often actually
-but never got any recognition-God was so distant
Yes that will happen if your heart and mind are closed.
. He wasn't close, in my heart.
That was your short coming, all you have to do is open your mind and heart to HIM.
And most of all I wasn't obeying what He said about his Son or believing His Word(the Bible)
Therein lies your problem, You obeyed ancient man instead of going right to the source.
My spirit was dead. :(
What do you expect when your heart and mind are closed and you have no relationship with the GOD you can understand. I will pray and ask for your enlightenment. Don't give up hope. :)

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

You just don't get it, do you? You and all the other evangelistic proselytizers who are intolerant of anyone else who doesn't share your beliefs. If I can be happy that you are comfortable in your beliefs why can't you be comfortable that others are happy with theirs?

I agree, you go by faith. And, unlike you, I believe you are entitled to your beliefs and your faith. But truth requires facts. You can't have truth were there is no verification.

If you do not go by sight then you do not see. I know many Christians who are strong in their beliefs yet humanist and tolerant to allow others their own beliefs. When I was growing up, my family attended the Brotherhood Synagogue in NYC. This synagogue shared its building with an Episcopal church. We respected each others religions and each other's rights to worship as they believe.

The golden rule is Do unto others as you would have then do unto you. Would you like it others told you their way was the only true way? Would you like it if others told you that your soul would be lost if you don't embrace their god?

Then how can pervert the teachings of Christ to be so intolerant?

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Scott, you are so angry. It is not my goal to anger others. I simply reply where I am lead. It is not my way or my words or my teaching. It is Christs teaching. In the book of John, he says, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life, he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." I'm not pushing my views on any one. I'm not a pushy person. God is the only one that can save anyone. We don't save ourselves, no ones religion can save them, nothing you can do can save you. You must believe in the Son. The one that died for you. The only one who fully and truly knows you and loves you. He has called me to proclaim that truth. For those that embrace Him are saved, for those who reject Him are not. It is true. It hurts because it doesn't leave room for us to play God. It leaves no room for that at all. Please forgive me for having angered you. I don't apologize for telling the truth. But honestly I say these things because I know what God says of those who reject His Son. I'll let my Father in Heaven take it from here. May He who is in heaven and all around remove the scales from your eyes that you may see the glory of His one and only Son, Jesus Christ. May it touch your heart so deeply that it leaves no room for doubt. With love for you Scott...

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I can hardly believe you said that acura- I was thinking along the same lines.
Even the devil believes there's a God.
I Don't know what the devil believes nor do I care and since you know him better than I, I will take your word for it.
I wonder what kind of relationship someone can have with God when they do not have the Holy Spirit!?
Not knowing the relationship then what makes you think I have no Holy spirit?
I was like that once.
You should have remain so.
I could even talk to God
Quite often actually
-but never got any recognition-God was so distant
Yes that will happen if your heart and mind are closed.
. He wasn't close, in my heart.
That was your short coming, all you have to do is open your mind and heart to HIM.
And most of all I wasn't obeying what He said about his Son or believing His Word(the Bible)
Therein lies your problem, You obeyed ancient man instead of going right to the source.
My spirit was dead. :(
What do you expect when your heart and mind are closed and you have no relationship with the GOD you can understand. I will pray and ask for your enlightenment. Don't give up hope. :)

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You receive the Holy Spirit when you accept Jesus. Your disrespect, pride, & lack of compassion is obvious that you are not a child of God. I need to pray for you that you find Jesus because you need His fruit in your life!

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Originally Posted by Micsadaisy

Scott, you are so angry. It is not my goal to anger others.

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Yes I am angry. If its not yoiur goal then why do you do it? How would you feel if I told you that you would not be saved unless you believe the way I do? Wouldn't that anger you? I asked you that before, but you dodge that issue.

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Originally Posted by Micsadaisy

I'm not pushing my views on any one. I'm not a pushy person.

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Yes you are!! Can't you see that? By telling anyone who doesn't believe the way you do, that they will not be saved, that they do not see the "truth". That is pushing your views. I'm not telling you that you are wrong. I've said from the beginning that I respect your beliefs and am happy you find comfort in them. But please accord me the same respect. If you don't (and so far you haven't), then you are pushing your views.

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Originally Posted by Micsadaisy

You must believe in the Son. The one that died for you. The only one who fully and truly knows you and loves you. He has called me to proclaim that truth.

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This is just another example. "you MUST beleive", he "died for you", "proclaim that truth". These are all statements that challenge anyone who doesn't believe the way you do. They proclaim to anyone that they are wrong in their beliefs. You speak about "truth" when there is no proof, only faith.

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Originally Posted by Micsadaisy

For those that embrace Him are saved, for those who reject Him are not. It is true. It hurts because it doesn't leave room for us to play God. It leaves no room for that at all. Please forgive me for having angered you. I don't apologize for telling the truth. But honestly I say these things because I know what God says of those who reject His Son. I'll let my Father in Heaven take it from here. May He who is in heaven and all around remove the scales from your eyes that you may see the glory of His one and only Son, Jesus Christ. May it touch your heart so deeply that it leaves no room for doubt. With love for you Scott...

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Don't apologize for telling the truth. But DO apologize for proselytizing. Do apologize for pushing your beliefs down the throats of people who choose an alternative belief. Do apologize for calling your faith the truth when you haven't a clue what truth is.

If there is one thing I worship it IS truth. But truth (for me) requires verification. Tangible facts and/or logical processes that proves the statement. You have nothing but what was written in the Bible to support your "truth". It may, in fact, be true or it may be just the wishful thinking of a bunch of ancients. I don't know and you don't KNOW.

So, if you don't want to anger people, if you don't want to appear pushy then couch your remarks in terms of "this is what I believe..." Not in terms of this is what is and what is truth. Because it IS truth that when you do that, you WILL anger people who don't believe as you do.

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Originally Posted by Retrotia

You receive the Holy Spirit when you accept Jesus. Your disrespect, pride, & lack of compassion is obvious that you are not a child of God. I need to pray for you that you find Jesus bc you need His fruit in your life!

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The only disrespect and lack of compassion here is from you and the other proslyetizers who refuse to accept that there may be other ways then yours. Most of the people here who don't believe as you do, respect your right to your beliefs. We don't tell you that you will be damned if you don't believe the way we do. We don't tell you you have to believe the way we do. We only ask that you respect our RIGHT to believe the way we do.

Is that asking too much?

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Originally Posted by Retrotia

You receive the Holy Spirit when you accept Jesus. Your disrespect, pride, & lack of compassion is obvious that you are not a child of God. I need to pray for you that you find Jesus bc you need His fruit in your life!

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Get with the truth, your false proclamation of deliverence, falls on deaf ears as you obviously believe the crap your spewing, but I will pray you open your heart and get the salvation your looking for. Look within and find peace and understanding.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Yes, the search for a good CHRISTIAN experience would be thru Christ. Obviously, since Christianity is based on the beleif in Christ as the son of God.

But that doesn't mean that a good RELIGIOUS experience needs to be thru Christ. There are many ways to have a good RELIGIOUS experience without worshipping Jesus Christ. That's the mistake that Micsadaisy makes.

And its even possible IMHO, to have a good spiritual experience without adhereing to any organized religion.

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Yea, I see what you're saying Scott, Kind of like really good sex, only, without a partner.

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Originally Posted by animeluver06

I have no religion yet and I am 15. My parents decided when i was born to let me pick my own religion but I can't decide. Is it possible for me to go to hell because I dont have a religion? I beleive in god and everything but it seems everytime I start to learn something about a religion it either scares me or I disagree with something. I feel so confused.

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Stay away from religion get close to Jesus

Your sincere question is a sign that you are in the quest for truth and will be accepting of it when it is presented to you. May God bless your pure intentions and guide us all to the straight path.

Islam is a verb and literally means submitting to the will of God in peace. This is unlike most of the major religions that are named after a person or place, e.g. Judah-Judaism, Christ-Christianity, Buddha-Buddhism, Indus Valley-Hinduism, etc. So Islam is an active verb and the one who submits is a doer of Islam or an Islamer. In Arabic there is a prefix 'mu' like the suffix 'er' in English. So a Mu-islam or Muslim is one who submits his/her will to the will of his Lord. All the Prophets sent by God to guide humanity from the time of Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus and Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all) were muslims in the true sense because they devoted their lives to the God's mission - to take mankind from darkness to light!

Ready to DO Islam? :)

My answer will be simple to you. You should worry about which religion to choose because God won't judge you by your religion but by the kind of life you are living. I suggest that you pray to God with a sincere heart and ask Him to give you guidance. Don't let anyone trap you by convincing to join their religion. God is not in religion but inside of His people.

fitnahpolice,
To answer your question, "Ready to do Islam?"
My answer is a definite NO!
I am already committed to the one true Triune God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, there is no other.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

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Originally Posted by arcura

fitnahpolice,
To answer your question, "Ready to do Islam?"
My answer is a definite NO!
I am already committed to the one true Triune God of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, there is no other.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

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So you're not ready to submit your will to the will of God? :confused:

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Originally Posted by fitnahpolice

so you're not ready to submit your will to the will of God? :confused:

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Not yours ;)

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Originally Posted by fitnahpolice

so you're not ready to submit your will to the will of God? :confused:

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Another totally biased and also an intolerant statement. I, for one, am not willing to submit MY will to any entity. I prefer to exercise my own will.

And just because I don't believe in YOUR interpretation of the "will of God", does not mean I don't have my own interpretation that I adhere to.

Islam, like Christianity, is still based on the Old Testament. The "will of God" was expressed in the Ten Commandments and everything else has stemmed from them. I believe, that as long as I follow those commandments, I will be considered a moral, righteous person. In the eyes of God and the eyes of my fellow beings. I don't need to adhere to a lot of minute rules about how to live my daily life to be the kind of person that I believe God and I want me to be.

One of the qualities that I believe God wants me to show is tolerance.

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Originally Posted by fitnahpolice

so you're not ready to submit your will to the will of God? :confused:

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The God that I understands requires no submission, but gives me free choice to follow his guidance.

When Fitna police mention about hinduism , he says it is connected with indus valley. But the original name OF hinduism is not hinduism, it is SANADHANA DHARMA- means ETERNAL VALUES.

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Originally Posted by CaptainForest

That statement is so flawed Fr Chuck. From that statement, you are saying that the Jewish religion has gotten it all wrong. Jews don’t believe in hell.

And you made my point. Organized religions do differ from Christians to Jews to Islam to etc. No one knows which one is really right. Although there will be some people who believe that their way is the right way.

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Jews believed in "sheol" where the dead live in shadows this was where your soul would stay in eternity. However jews now believe that you are judged and are then sent to places like heaven and hell

Be nice if us humans could understand each other, and get the same language, as the small things become lost in the translations it seems, and its hard to know if your on the same page or not.

fitnahpolice,
Long ago I submitter to the one and only true God who had a son named Jesus.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

fitnahpolice and arcura, One day you may have to live with the fact you both have the same God, Especially since you both concede there is only ONE!

talaniman,
Maybe so.
But
That ain't necessarily so.
There is really only one true God, any others as fakes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Same bible same God

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

There is really only one true God, any others as fakes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

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Frankly I find the above rather hypocritical. You preach peace and kindness at the same time that you promote intolerance. I just don't understand how you (or anyone) can reconcile that. Either you practice what you preach or admit to yourself that you are intolerant and antagonistic.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Frankly I find the above rather hypocritical. You preach peace and kindness at the same time that you promote intolerance. I just don't understand how you (or anyone) can reconcile that. Either you practice what you preach or admit to yourself that you are intolerant and antagonistic.

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Frankly, I find your response very critical & angry. I think acura speaks his peace rather well.
You have only to lose your anger & find a happy place. Admit to your own self that your accusations toward acura are something you dreamed up-& that you are being selfish!

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Originally Posted by Retrotia

Frankly, I find your response very critical & angry. I think acura speaks his peace rather well.
You have only to lose your anger & find a happy place. Admit to your own self that your accusations toward acura are something you dreamed up-& that you are being selfish!

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Excuse me? Please explain to me the logic that says you can promote peace and kindness at the same time you preach antagonism and intolerance? Do you deny that that someone who says there is only one true god and that's the Christian one is being intolerant of other religions? Do you deny that when you tell someone their religion is wrong, you are attacking their beliefs?

If you can reconcile those things with preaching peace and kindness, I would certainly like to hear it.

I think you are guilty of exactly what you are saying of someone else. Acura has a right to his beliefs also.
You are not showing any peace or kindness. You are describing what you hate- & it's pointed towards another.
If you don't want to hear it- change the channel.

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Originally Posted by Retrotia

I think you are guilty of exactly what you are saying of someone else. acura has a right to his beliefs also.
You are not showing any peace or kindness. You are describing what you hate- & it's pointed towards another.
If you don't want to hear it- change the channel.

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Boy have you got me wrong. I don't know where you get the idea that I hate anything here. I respect Fred's beliefs. I am very glad that he is happy and comforted by his beliefs. I have not, nor will I ask him to believe anything different. But that's where the big difference lies. I respect his beliefs, but he doesn't respect mine. I don't challenge his beliefs. I don't say his beliefs are wrong. I only ask that he acknowledge that other people are entitled to have their own beliefs. I ask that he show tolerance for their right to believe differently than he.I ask that, if he truly believes in peace and kindness, that he not attack what others believe.

I asked, in my previous response, that you explain what logic there is in preaching peace and kindness, yet showing antagonism and intolerance. I asked if you can deny the actions I cited. I notice that you did not respond to that.

All I ask is that others show the respect for my right to believe the way I choose. As I respect their rights to do the same. I simply maintain that ANYONE who preaches peace and kindness but continually attacks the beliefs of others is being hypocritical.

The only thing I see here is my christian brothers, balking at admitting that they worship the same God as my muslim brothers. That was the question, not this personal stuff. What's the problem?