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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The Golden Rules is as old as humanity :

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Agreed. But this does not validate what the source is.

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By serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well. Even under simians and other animals you see this same behavior.
That is why you find the Golden Rule in almost every philosophic and/or religious view also.
Every religion in the Middle East from long before the era described in the Old Testament had the Golden Rule already as one of it's corner stones.

The Golden Rule started as a survival measure, but over time evolved also as basis for moral and ethical thinking.

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I accept this as your theory. Can you validate it?

BTW, the Golden rule by itself is not a standard for ethical behaviour. The reason is that as cultures, time, and societal attitudes change, what is considered ethical behaviour also changes, and thus the golden rule, not tied to a specific standard of what is "good" becaomes a matter of relativistic ethics.

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Even under simians and other animals you see this same behavior.

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Wolf Country, the pack, body postures and social structure

Like wolves? Does the alpha really have to really treat the lowest members the way he does? How would he [ the alpha ] feel if the lowest member treated him that way? Oh, that's right - he is dominant.




How about lions -
LION

Nope - no golden rule - dominance survives


How about bees - why does the queen get waited on - nope no golden rule there either


How about black widows - sexism and canibalism, but no golden rule there



How about gorillas?

ADW: Gorilla gorilla: Information



No golden rule there - dominance against


How about chimps?

The ABC's of Chimpanzee Behavior

No golden rule there - again dominance.


Cred the OSE is against your statement. :confused:;):rolleyes::p





g&p

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Originally Posted by inthebox

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Even under simians and other animals you see this same behavior.

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Like wolves? Does the alpha really have to really treat the lowest members the way he does?

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I stated :

The Golden Rules is as old as humanity : by serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well. Even under simians and other animals you see this same behavior.
That is why you find the Golden Rule in almost every philosophic and/or religious view also.
Every religion in the Middle East from long before the era described in the Old Testament had the Golden Rule already as one of it's corner stones.
The Golden Rule started as a survival measure, but over time evolved also as basis for moral and ethical thinking.

First I stated that the Golden Rule is as old as humanity. I also explained why that happened.
Than I stated in an add-on that "EVEN" under simians and other animals...
I did not state all animals, or specified any specific animals.

So why don't you keep to the main line of my reply : that The Golden Rules is as old as humanity : by serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well.

I know why you attack the way you do here : you know that I am correct that the Golden Rule is as old as humanity...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I stated :

The Golden Rules is as old as humanity : by serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well. Even under simians and other animals you see this same behavior.
That is why you find the Golden Rule in almost every philosophic and/or religious view also.
Every religion in the Middle East from long before the era described in the Old Testament had the Golden Rule already as one of it's corner stones.

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And as I responded before, let's look at the two assumptions that come from this:

1) You are assuming that the source is not Biblical. So far you offered no evidence for that. You assume that some other documents are older than the first instance of this in the Bible, but you have not validated that statement.

2) Second, you have not validated why you believe the source to be not Biblical. This appears to be point that you have missed. Usually where similar things appear in difference document (and for the time being, let's assume that to be the case), it typically refers to a common source. All you have done is identify some documents that you claim to have existed and claim to have been older than the Bible (a point which remains unvalidated in any case), but you have not addressed the point that the source itself of the Bible is God, and in such a case, God would be the likely primary source.

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The Golden Rule started as a survival measure, but over time evolved also as basis for moral and ethical thinking.[/B]

First I stated that the Golden Rule is as old as humanity. I also explained why that happened.
Than I stated in an add-on that "EVEN" under simians and other animals...
I did not state all animals, or specified any specific animals.

So why don't you keep to the main line of my reply : that The Golden Rules is as old as humanity : by serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well.

I know why you attack the way you do here : you know that I am correct that the Golden Rule is as old as humanity...

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Cred,

I agreed that it may very well be as old as humanity, but as I asked before if you can validate your claims regarding the source.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I stated :

The Golden Rules is as old as humanity : by serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well. Even under simians and other animals you see this same behavior.
That is why you find the Golden Rule in almost every philosophic and/or religious view also.
Every religion in the Middle East from long before the era described in the Old Testament had the Golden Rule already as one of it's corner stones.
The Golden Rule started as a survival measure, but over time evolved also as basis for moral and ethical thinking.

First I stated that the Golden Rule is as old as humanity. I also explained why that happened.
Than I stated in an add-on that "EVEN" under simians and other animals ....
I did not state all animals, or specified any specific animals.

So why dont you keep to the main line of my reply : that The Golden Rules is as old as humanity : by serving the interests of the tribe or group you belong to, you serve your own interests just as well.

I know why you attack the way you do here : you know that I am correct that the Golden Rule is as old as humanity ....



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I called into question one specific quote. It is not an attack to show OSE that contradicts what you state.



1] I gave you two examples of simians NOT practicing the golden rule.

2] In addition you have not provided OSE for the statement that simians, whatever species practice the golden rule. I am holding you to the same standards that you hold Christians, the Bible, and God to.

3] Humanity's history is contrary to the golden rule. For example;
The Roman empire
Genghis Kahn
Darfur
Rwanda
The Congo
Mumbai
Stalin
Hitler
Eygptian slavery
Slavery in the US
9/11
Pearl Harbor
On and on...

So why is it, that we know what we should do but we don't do it?



You keep on dodging the point- where is your OSE that the golden rule is as old as humanity







g&p

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Originally Posted by inthebox

So why is it, that we know what we should do but we don't do it?

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It's same argument as christians and the ten commandments.






















Nk.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

It's same argument as christians and the ten commandments.

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Which are also Biblical! ;)






















Tj.[/QUOTE]

Hello:

This thread is CLOSED!

excon

Why? Because the Christians are winning... LOL... hey Cred. You never DID give me that apology. Come on... it will make you feel better... ;)

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Originally Posted by excon

This thread is ....

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It seems that they have a single key to produce that line here on this Board !

BTW : what about the Golden Rule??

:)

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Originally Posted by classyT

You never DID give me that apology. Come on...it will make you feel better....

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Click the arrow to read my post #3 on this !!!

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May I draw to your attention that the topic is "The Golden Rule"??

Please stay on-topic!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Why does it matter where the golden rule originated? What difference does it make? Doesn't the "spirit" of the golden rule prohibit this sort of nonsense bickering?

It's a good rule to follow - be nice to people. You don't have to be Christian to do that. You don't have to be an atheist, a muslim, or a one-eyed-one-horned-flying-purple-people-eater. Christians don't always follow it, nor do atheists, muslims, or one-eyed-one-horned-flying-purple-people-eaters.

The reason the quote in the OP is flawed is because atheists don't have a universal standard by which they live. The only universal among atheists is the lack of belief in a god. Any other "standard" is coincidence, and anyone who says there is a "standard" among atheists is wrong. I know lots of atheists who follow the golden rule, lots of Christians who do, and a few of both who don't.

What's wrong with just being nice to people? Who cares whose idea it was, where it originated, or which religion or non-religion is "better" at it? I kind of think if you are going to argue about being "better" at being nice to people, you probably aren't very nice to begin with... But that's just me.

Carry on with the ensuing flame war (again).

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Why does it matter where the golden rule originated? What difference does it make?

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I don't know. A number of non-Christians and Atheists seemed to think that it was important.

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Doesn't the "spirit" of the golden rule prohibit this sort of nonsense bickering?

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Not to mention some of the other nastiness that we have seen on the thread.

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It's a good rule to follow - be nice to people. You don't have to be Christian to do that.

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You are right - you don't. But the difference, as I stated earlier in the thread, is that the golden rule itself is relative and thus what that means to non-Christians, especially atheists can and will vary over time, by culture and by location. What makes it different in Christianity is that we have a standard for behaviour that godes along with it, which does not allow for that variation. It does not mean that Christians are perfect, but whereas an atheists (for example) could, over time act in various different ways towards others and still claim to be following the Golden Rule, the same is not true for Christians.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

It seems that they have a single key to produce that line here on this Board

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Hello Cred:

I ain't got one of those, and I ain't a thread cop. I AM sneaky, though.

excon

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Why does it matter where the golden rule originated? What difference does it make?

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It are religious fundamentalists like Tj3 who CLAIM that the Golden Rule is of biblical origin, which it certainly is not!!

And yes, it's a good rule to follow!!
But that does not mean that you have to accept religious fanaticism...

Just read post #113 to see what I mean !

:)

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Originally Posted by excon

I AM sneaky, though.

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Yeah, I know ! :)

How about the Golden Rule ?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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Is he claiming it originated from the Bible or a Christian only thing or both?
I really don't want to read through all this disagreeing to figure out what Tj3 is claiming but I would like to know

Thank You Credo for explaining :D

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Is he claiming it originated from the Bible or a Christian only thing or both?
I really don't want to read through all this disagreeing to figure out what Tj3 is claiming but I would like to know

Thank You Credo for explaining :D

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Tom is claiming that the Golden rule originated in the bible and that it isn't something that Atheists abide by. So both.

He claims that some Atheists do follow this rule but that it is not a set standard for them to live by, whereas it is a set standard for a Christian. At least that's my understanding, I could be wrong, goodness knows I have been bofore. ;)

Personally, I think that we should just let whoever has the most gold make the rules. It's a joke, laugh! :)

Well I agree with jill that it is not a set standard for atheists but
It is neither a set standard for many professing Christians either so
Really the question is more who actually does live by the golden rule and what are their standards and beliefs that they live by.
For the origin I would say where was its origination in history before the 10 commandments because the 10 commandments covered the golden rule in so many words.

Hello again:

The thing is, when you're talking about atheists, there is no "they". They don't go to a church. They don't join atheist clubs. They don't operate as a group. They don't subscribe to a particular philosophy...

The only thing atheists have in common is what they DON'T believe - not what they DO.

excon