Caps On Is Not Me Yelling It's Me Not Turning Them Off...
If You Have A Heart You Are Concerned For People Without Them Asking You...
People Can Believe The Way They Want, They Are Going To Anyway...
One Of My Most Favorite People In The World Is An Atheist And I Hug Him Every Time I See Him And I Listen To His Veiws And He To Mine...
When He Is Gone I Would Have His Blood On My Hands If I Didn't At Least Try To Tell Him...
I Love Every Soul And Like God I Don't Want To See Them Perish...
I Have A Soft Spot For Kids And Worry A Great Deal For Them...
I Don't Like Being Attacked For My Opinion, I Haven't Attacked Anyone For There's , Only To You For The Personal Punch...
My Children Don't Even Behave In Some Of These Manners And Would Never Stop Someone's Letter From Getting To Them, That Was Where The Grow Up Remark Came From...

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I can't believe, having missed the start of this post, I read this whole thing. I have never cared who believed what, or the reasons behind it. I stay away from organised religion, but have come to believe that a personal relationship with the God that I understand, needed no church with a lot of people in it so that's the way I live. I can offer no proof that God exists, at least none you could understand, and no proof based in fact, that he works in my life. But being a dumb human, I can understand, why we fall for the TRUTH, as put by others, and follow blindly to the point of being sheep for the shepherds who they follow with no questions asked. I can see where the suffering of others can be evidence, of there being no God. I can see thru suffering, why you can be angry at God. That's humans for you. Blame God for not doing what we should be doing. Thats easy, and leaves us humans blameless for our shortcomings. The God I understand gives us life and choices, the rest is up to us, what we do with free will, and it doesn't matter whether you believe in God or not, not one bit. What does matter is how you spend this short time on earth, and how you live your life. The rest is as personal as what kind of deodorant you use, as that is choice also. The truth is we don't know, none of us, and we believe what we believe. Not a big deal until you start telling me what I should believe, and dare to try and change me. That's why I just recognise the good in people, and if I can't, I just leave them alone to whatever choice they make. I have no proof that I'm right, but I have no proof your wrong either, so I hope you enjoy your choice as I do mine. But I must admit this relatively quiet, and thoughtful post, is a refreshing change from some of the other "organised ones", and is a great read.

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Beautifully and eloquently said Tal.

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

awwwww poor Allheart.... :)

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I love you back, you front, and especially you heart, Feel better? :)

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Originally Posted by talaniman

I love you back, you front, and especially you heart, Feel better?? :)

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:D

Yes, I do feel better :)

Okay, you all may proceed now :)

(no mention of my feet - but I don't blame you :) -

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Originally Posted by BMI

Hi Jillean,

I do place empahsis on certain historical figures in whom I happen to agree with, I think what they have said is very relevent to the original question. Also, if one posts video's and website information to support their beleif than so too shall I. Greg says so and so said this, I say so and so said this. I do not like the argument that many did it b/c of "social suicide", I could say they made the video up for money, I could say something about all of the points refuting the existence of God. It's great you have your beleifs and I do agree with your take on independent thinking, however, my historical references were in relation to perspective and to be viewed as a counter argument against many points within this thread.

I will sincerily apologize to anyone here that I may have offended or sounded smart with, was and is not my intention, sorry Greg. These religious posts always end up the same, although perhaps I contribute to that outcome:)

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To be fair, I have to admit I still haven't watched the video, so if I took your post wrong because of that, I'm really sorry. I seem to remember someone else (and I thought it was you) on another thread saying essentially that since Einstein was smart and he believed in god, we should all believe in god. I'm sorry if that wasn't you (I've been painting a lot... the fumes might be gettin' to me!), and even sorry-er if that's not your opinion!

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

Caps On Is Not Me Yelling It's Me Not Turning Them Off......

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Sorry, but its been a long held convention of cyberspace and even print media that typing in all caps is considered yelling at people. When in Rome...

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

One Of My Most Favorite People In The World Is An Atheist And I Hug Him Every Time I See Him And I Listen To His Veiws And He To Mine.....
When He Is Gone I Would Have His Blood On My Hands If I Didn't At Least Try To Tell Him ......

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If that's not one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard! You think you would be responsible for his death because you didn't try to convert him? I don't know how you can maintain a friendship with someone that you treat like that.

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

I Love Every Soul And Like God I Don't Want To See Them Perish......
I Have A Soft Spot For Kids And Worry A Great Deal For Them ......

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No you don't, you just think you do. You mistake evangelizing for concern. You think imposing your own beliefs on people shows love for them. Sorry, lady, but that isn't the way it works. If you love someone you respect their beliefs, you don't keep trying to change them. And you don't try to frighten them with what you believe would be the consequences of them not believing with you.

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

I Don't Like Being Attacked For My Opinion, I Haven't Attacked Anyone For There's , Only To You For The Personal Punch.......
My Children Don't Even Behave In Some Of These Manners And Would Never Stop Someones Letter From Getting To Them, That Was Where The Grow Up Remark Came From......

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You aren't being attacked for your opinion, that's part of what you just don't get. You are being attacked for trying to impose your opinion on others. And what "Personal Punch" are you referring to?

As for stopping someone's letter from getting to them, again you show that you don't understand or (more likely) refuse to understand what is being said to you. I assume you are referring to the other thread. But if you look at that other thread, you will see I didn't stop your first post and even complimented it. It was subsequent posts that attempted to impose your personal beliefs that I stifled. See unlike you, I did have a concern for the OP in that thread. I expressed my concern by advising her to make sure she was comfortable with her decision but offering advice on implementing her decision if she was sure about it.

But I don't want to hijack Greg's thread any further. If you want to discuss this further you are free to start a new discussion.

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

HOW IS IT RUDE TO BE CONCERNED FOR PEOPLE? LOOK AT OTHER COMMENTS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. YOUR TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND. IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING AND ENTERTAIN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT REAL THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU BELIEVE AND I KNOW. MY OPINION IS AS VALUEABLE AS ANY ONE ELSES, I'M JUST NOT ONE TO SAY WELL DUH MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT OR MAYBE I'M RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

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It is so common for people to show emotion in discussions about religion, it really doesn't help
if a people start getting really sarcastic, or angry. The discussion changes frequently but the topic remains the same. In my opinion"Your friend" does not exist. Now, it has effected my life on thousand levels and here is my most recent reason. I have a brother that is constantly borrowing money off me because he gives X amount of income to his church every month. That would be fine if it were going to a great car or a house payment or even an arcade for his basement. But, I feel I am giving money to the wealthiest being in the infinities, his
"imaginary friend".
There are a lot of other comments stating why people do believe, I do not respond by yelling with my CAPS on. The great thing about this topic is it brings up questions and answers. Maybe the answers are false, but to look at a provided link and not click it but argue its unseen contents is unfair. It seems to be the foundation that this room was built on. I should have named the room " What do you think of this? Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007 " But I didn't. LOL

No worries Jillean.

By the way, I was not me who equated that because Einstein believed in God so should we all. I would have much to say about that idea rest assured:)

Hope everyone can learn a bit from these posts and keeping in the tradition with the site, I Love all too!! Just not as much on a Monday:)

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

Sorry, but its been a long held convention of cyberspace and even print media that typing in all caps is considered yelling at people. When in Rome...



If that's not one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard!! You think you would be responsible for his death because you didn't try to convert him? I don't know how you can maintain a friendship with someone that you treat like that.




No you don't, you just think you do. You mistake evangelizing for concern. You think imposing your own beliefs on people shows love for them. Sorry, lady, but that aint the way it works. If you love someone you respect their beliefs, you don't keep trying to change them. And you don't try to frighten them with what you believe would be the consequences of them not believing with you.





You aren't being attacked for your opinion, that's part of what you just don't get. You are being attacked for trying to impose your opinion on others. And what "Personal Punch" are you referring to?

As for stopping someone's letter from getting to them, again you show that you don't understand or (more likely) refuse to understand what is being said to you. I assume you are referring to the other thread. But if you look at that other thread, you will see I didn't stop your first post and even complimented it. It was subsequent posts that attempted to impose your personal beliefs that I stifled. See unlike you, I did have a concern for the OP in that thread. I expressed my concern by advising her to make sure she was comfortable with her decision but offering advice on implementing her decision if she was sure about it.

But I don't want to hijack Greg's thread any further. If you want to discuss this further you are free to start a new discussion.

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No hijacking here... I enjoy reading all of your responses & opinions. Always calm and well collected! I WISH I WERE ALWAYS AS CALM!!

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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In my opinion"Your friend" does not exist. Now, it has effected my life on thousand levels and here is my most recent reason. I have a brother that is constantly borrowing money off of me because he gives X amount of income to his church every month. That would be fine if it were going to a great car or a house payment or even an arcade for his basement. But, I feel I am giving money to the wealthiest being in the infinities, his
"imaginary friend".

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Hi again GQ - You have to remember that Church laws are made by who?? Man. And man is fallable. Not saying giving X amount is wrong, but Man no matter where is housed
can make mistakes or not use the best judgment.

What I am saying is that there is Church law which normally is derived by what man interprets to be God's law, but anytime man is involved, leave room for error.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, and I almost shutter at saying this. I am Catholic and I love my religion, but church is people and people are not perfect.

So, how do you think I feel, when I walk in a beautiful church, stain glass windows, golden chalisis, and in my mind what do I see... starving people, starving children. Why can't mass be said in a building with chairs lights, AC and heat. And how do you think God sees that.

I love my relgion with all my heart because it works for me, but I also realize that all of us are imperfect and churches do no always reflect God's will 100%... they may try but of course with man involved...

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

awwwww poor Allheart.... :)

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I love you back! LOL

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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I love you back!! LOL

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Now we're cooking... :D

(and thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Hi again GQ - You have to remember that Church laws are made by who???? Man. And man is fallable. Not saying giving X amount is wrong, but Man no matter where is housed
can make mistakes or not use the best judgment.

What I am saying is that there is Church law which normally is derived by what man interprets to be God's law, but anytime man is involved, leave room for error.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, and I almost shutter at saying this. I am Catholic and I love my religion, but church is people and people are not perfect.

So, how do you think I feel, when I walk in a beautiful church, stain glass windows, golden chalisis, and in my mind what do I see....starving people, starving children. Why can't mass be said in a building with chairs lights, AC and heat. And how do you think God sees that.

I love my relgion with all my heart because it works for me, but I also realize that all of us are imperfect and churches do no always refect God's will 100%...they may try but of course with man involved.....

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Over my life time my Father has given $***,***. 00 to his belief. He never complains and has only made me aware of a % once while on the phone to my Aunt. Wouldn't it have been a great thing to have watched where every penny went or to been able to direct it himself?
My Dad told me when I was about 7yrs old, often (in Canada) groups of members would get together at various homes on Sunday and do their studies, singing, praying and teaching at no cost but a potluck style function. MMMMmmmmm, give me a time machine and I may reconsider my faith. Just Kidding!

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

---------------------------------------------------
It is so common for people to show emotion in discussions about religion, it really doesn't help
if a people start getting really sarcastic, or angry. The discussion changes frequently but the topic remains the same. In my opinion"Your friend" does not exist. Now, it has effected my life on thousand levels and here is my most recent reason. I have a brother that is constantly borrowing money off of me because he gives X amount of income to his church every month. That would be fine if it were going to a great car or a house payment or even an arcade for his basement. But, I feel I am giving money to the wealthiest being in the infinities, his
"imaginary friend".
There are a lot of other comments stating why people do believe, I do not respond by yelling with my CAPS on. The great thing about this topic is it brings up questions and answers. Maybe the answers are false, but to look at a provided link and not click it but argue its unseen contents is unfair. It seems to be the foundation that this room was built on. I should have named the room " What do you think of this? Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007 " But I didn't. LOL

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I acually have a great deal of respect for you. I just am strong in my beliefs and I am not doing my job as a christain worth a flip if I don't at least say what's on my heart. The money thing I can see how it's hard to understand , but just like everything else you need money to run it. A building cost money going to other countries to teach the word of god cost money and most churches have outreach programs and need money for that. I am saddend when I see a preacher driving a porche, so I know what you mean. But it would be awful if there were no churches to worship in and no way to feed the people in the cummunities because people would let go of there money. I don't always give my 10 because I don't always have it. But I'm glad to help our outreach program when I can with my money or my time. I haven't veiwed the site and I will to be fair but I wish I had a site for you to veiw. Because I can't help it, it's just all so scarry to me. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

awwwww poor Allheart.... :)

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Snaps to allheart. You are sweet. Love you

Hey I really don't have time to watch the video. Could someone pleas break it down for me

If knowing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and knowing in my heart that all other ways to heaven is wrong, if that is narroow minded or closed mind, thank God I am, since accepting any other belief will doom your soul.

All real Chrsitains by their very belief have to be closed minded. That does not mean we want to force others to worship our way, but it does not mean we would ever accept their beleifs as correct.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

All real Chrsitains by thier very beleif have to be closed minded.

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Yea, that's pretty the problem.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yea, that's pretty the problem.

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Not a problem at all, knowing the truth is not a problem, are you not closed minded that the world is round? Since you know that is a fact, well we know that God is real, so denying that would be completely out of line, in fact it is the only reasonable choice.

And knowing one is right and not believing anyone else is not saying you can not either accept the fact they will worship different or not at all, or at worst ignore the fact they don't have your beleifs.

A christian that would say another form of worship or belief would save someone's soul is not a christian, since it goes against their very teachings. And standing up for ones christian beleifs is never wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

If knowing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and knowing in my heart that all other ways to heaven is wrong, if that is narroow minded or closed mind, thank God I am, since accepting anyother beleif will doom your soul.

All real Chrsitains by thier very beleif have to be closed minded. That does not mean we want to force others to worship our way, but it does not mean we would ever accept thier beleifs as correct.

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! That's my point I'm not saying you have to believe the way I do. But let me speak my peace just as any one does and it might be of some help you never know, there does however come a time that you have to just shake the dust off your feet and move on, but you have said this well my friend. Please help me in praying for these souls and may god bless you