So, what's going to happen on December 12, 2012 then?
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So, what's going to happen on December 12, 2012 then?
Is there money to be made having a Date, I mean what is this religious leaders advantage,
Perhaps excon and I can come up with some date if we can make a few bucks out off it?
Luckily I have a good supply of firearms and ammunition for when the chaos breaks out! :eek:
Good, I will be coming to your house then. BYOG (bring your own gun) right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Im sure no one has accepted offers to sign over realestate for the 22nd of that month yet. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
You can BYOG, or if you don't have one, I share! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by califdadof3
I won't say what but Im zombie ready for sure!! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
I believe this carp about as much as I believed Y2K.
At least with Y2K they had a valid reason. But the implimentation of the fix was unknown going into it. Y2K was real when it was first thought up. But it also was easily corrected.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Your question is valid. And I'll try to give a satisfactory answer.Quote:
Synnen: My RELEVANT question is this: Why are SOME parts of the Bible used as ABSOLUTES and other parts IGNORED ENTIRELY? This is relevant because you say that your belief uses the WHOLE Bible. If so, do you follow ALL directives in the Bible, or are you a hypocrite and follow only the parts you believe---which would negate your whole argument about 5/21/11.
Firstly... no part of the Bible may legitimately be ignored. But, besides the obvious structure of two testaments, books, chapters, verses, translations, added words (italicized), and omitted (or changed) words e.g.YHWH, the Bible has additional structure that isn't obvious. And we need to distinguish between the structure that has been imposed by human beings, and the structure that originally came from God. Also we need to understand that some of the man made structures (such as the distinction between the two 'testaments') are actually plain wrong. Once we take those corrections into account, the Bible begins to take on an entirely different character than what we had supposed previously,. in my opinion.
Next, directives. What do you suppose the prime directives for understanding the Bible would be ? One of them is given explicitly in Proverbs 4:7. "Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore get wisdom. And with all thy getting, get understanding." Also Proverbs 16:16 "How much better is it to get wisdom than gold ! And to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver !" Proverbs 3:19 "YHWH by wisdom hath founded the earth. By understanding hath He established the heavens." Do you suppose that with all that wisdom, He left His holy Bible to hang by a thread and to twist in the wind ? Another very important directive is humility. Explicitly in 1 Peter 5:5. Unless we personally submit to those directives, somehow... by prayer... etc. we will not see the kingdom of God. By a continued study we may find that the word 'grace' in some contexts is actually a synonym for 'salvation' itself. That is no exaggeration. If we do not recognize the Bible as God's word explicitly and humbly try to be as obedient as possible we will not receive the spiritual message it offers.
DMO... two words here... Fear Mongers.
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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
And were you the one that decided all of this on you own? Or did you learn it from someone else?
Actually, I don't give a damn about escaping God's wrath. I believe in a benevolent god.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Here's the question I want answered: What were the signs of EACH seal being broken, as applies SPECIFICALLY to our world? I can look up Revelation 6 as easily as anyone and read the BIBLICAL signs--I want you to tell me why 1988 was the year the 7th seal was broken.
Here's the other question I have asked that has not been answered:
Which VERSION and TRANSLATION of the Bible are you using? It makes a difference, because the wording is pretty different in different versions and translations.
Has anyone besides HSB searched the internet for this lunatic Harold Camping or any of his teachings? It is pretty interesting how far off one person can get when they think they have the answers and answer to no one in higher authority.
You mean like Jim Jones was interesting?Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Keep it up, I just love to dance. P.S. This is not about what you want. P.P.S. You're angry when you're beautiful.Quote:
HeadStrongBoy: Thanks for your interest. Much as I'm flattered, I'm not about to begin writing my auto-biography here. The important thing is... how does the Bible show that May 21, 2011 will be the Day of Judgment ? And how can I escape God's wrath ?
Quoting Synnen: Actually, I don't give a damn about escaping God's wrath. I believe in a benevolent god.
Here's the question I want answered: What were the signs of EACH seal being broken, as applies SPECIFICALLY to our world? I can look up Revelation 6 as easily as anyone and read the BIBLICAL signs--I want you to tell me why 1988 was the year the 7th seal was broken.
P.P.P.S. If your god is totally benevolent, then you need have no worries. Then all of the information that relates to the Day of Judgment is completely irrelevant to you. You'll be safe no matter what. So why bother your head with insignificant facts ? Convince me to take your question seriously. Prove to me that you're not just trolling.
LOL, I was not going to as far as that, comparing Camping's ramblings to the likes of Jones, or any of the other cult leaders of the recent past for that matter. But it does intrigue me how many people will fall into the false teachings of these charismatic people instead of simply accepting the teachings of Jesus Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Hey, HSB, how much money have you given to this guy? Inquisitive minds want to know.
It is a little amusing :o how you can talk out of one side of your mouth... and say "simply accepting the teachings of Jesus Christ."Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
And the other side of your mouth says... "Hey this guy's a real fool. Let's see :cool: if he'll tell me about his personal finances."
I'm just saying... :rolleyes:
OMG! I've just gone through this thread. I cannot fathom the depths of blind faith that has gone into this. I rarely get involved in these discussions because they are so ridiculous. I've said before, that I believe, as long as one lives their life according to what is known as the Judeo-Christian ethic, then, if there is a day of judgment, I feel I will be judged appropriately. I do NOT believe that living a "good" life requires that I worship any particular deity, subscribe to any particular religion to be judged.
That being said I did feel the need to make some specifics comments:
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Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
You don't see the contradiction there? The Old Testament was written before Jesus was born.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
I will let that quote stand on its own.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
I have just marked my calendar I will return to this thread on that date. Where I expect you to post an apology.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Thank you, HSB, for the post you made about your religious background and evolution. I (and others) can relate to a lot of that. My neighbor is a member of Armstrong's church, so I've read up on that as well as on Mr. Camping's beliefs, pro and con.
Your comment about: "I cannot fathom the depths of blind faith that has gone into this."Quote:
HeadStrongBoy: Fact is that every word in the whole Bible is the words of Jesus.
My motivation is to hammer home the concept that the Old Testament IS EQUALLY VALID today.
ScottGem: You don't see the contradiction there? The Old Testament was written before Jesus was born.
It seems clear to me that you regard Jesus as no more than an extraordinary human being of some kind. And that is your privilege. But a careful study of the Bible, believing that it is the word of God, reveals that Jesus is the same God YHWH (or Jehovah) who appears in the so called Old Testament.
So actually there's no contradiction whatsoever. Jesus Himself said: "Before Abraham was, I am." [John 8:58] (YHWH are the Hebrew letters meaning 'I AM.')
You may call my faith blind if you wish, but it's based on a thorough understanding of some parts of the Bible. Probably a lot more than you know.
That is one way of interpreting the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
The keyword there is understanding. You have YOUR understanding of the Bible. Clearly other people have their own understanding of the Bible. Since there is no concrete proof either way, then any belief in the Bible as the word of God and a belief in any God at all is a matter of blind faith. If your faith comforts you, then I am happy for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
There is a certain coherence in what you've said above. And I respect that. But nevertheless... The 153 day period (about 5 months) defined in the Bible as The Day of Judgment will begin May 21, 2011 with a mega-mega earthquake that will rock the whole planet. The likelihood is that it will begin near the International Dateline and follow the sun around the globe for 24 hours until every last place on the Earth has been completely shaken to pieces.Quote:
Scottgem: The keyword there is understanding. You have YOUR understanding of the Bible. Clearly other people have their own understanding of the Bible. Since there is no concrete proof either way, then any belief in the Bible as the word of God and a belief in any God at all is a matter of blind faith. If your faith comforts you, then I am happy for you.
I don't know what your definition of 'comfort' is. But anyone who is comforted by what I've just posted must be either deranged, or they're absolutely certain of their personal salvation. In any case I have loved ones who do not believe any of this. For me it's not comforting to know that they, and perhaps I too, will be destroyed on that day, or the days that follow.
Since that particular statement is actually in Greek, that's a good trick!Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
This is one of the funniest things I've seen out of you yet.
The "I Am" in Exodus, in Hebrew, is )HYH (it's hard to transliterate the first letter, since it's a glottal stop that has no equivalent in our alphabet), aleph-he-yod-he. The divine name is yod-he-waw-he, so the two are not the same word. And Jesus actually said, in Greek, EGO EIMI. Well, you might say, this is the Greek equivalent of what's in Exodus. No, it isn't. The Greek translation of the Exodus passage says EGO EIMI HO WN (the W is an approximation of the letter omega), which means "I am the one who is." You and your guy Camping need to learn a bit of Hebrew and Greek before making such ludicrous statements.
So does that mean you would be willing to sign over your monies and entire estate to me as of the 22nd? Or whatever near future date you expect that there is nothing left ?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
HSB, I'd like to see the answer to this question, as well. I think we all would. How about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
So by that sort of dodging the question I have to assume you have signed over a significant portion of your money to this kook?
I do have to hand it to you, you are almost an expert at dodging the questions put to you. But then again people like Jim Jones, and that nut case at Waco were too. So far I have asked you at least twice before, but will try once again. When May22 rolls around and you are still sitting on your butt in front of the computer, will you actually have the nerve to come back to this forum and admit the fallacy of your beliefs?
Scottgem "You and your guy Camping need to learn a bit of Hebrew and Greek before making such ludicrous statements."
That one is my own, with some help from an Assemblies of Yahweh Bible. I do not claim to be an expert in the classic Greek or Hebrew languages. Your knowledge of the specific Greek and Hebrew may be accurate for all I know. But my knowledge is not the issue, and my belief is not based only on that one verse. There are other explicit verses that declare Jesus is YHWH. For example 1 Corinthians 10:4.
450donn "will you actually have the nerve to come back to this forum and admit the fallacy of your beliefs?"
It doesn't take very much nerve to face a smart alec like yourself. All it takes is to assume the same type of ballsy bravado that you seem to exude.
That was actually me, not Scottgem. The deity of Jesus isn't the question. The question was your statement that YHWH is Hebrew for "I am." Thank you for admitting that you made it up and that it's wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Ya know... I just don't feel like working that hard right now. The atmosphere is not particularly to my liking. Why put myself out for a bunch of skeptics. And they're not only skeptical in a rational and scientific way, they also strike me as somewhat arrogant and rude, almost to the point of outright disrespect. I refuse to put forth diligent effort for a bunch of smart a**es.Quote:
Synnen: Here's the question I want answered: What were the signs of EACH seal being broken, as applies SPECIFICALLY to our world? I can look up Revelation 6 as easily as anyone and read the BIBLICAL signs--I want you to tell me why 1988 was the year the 7th seal was broken.
Dwashbur: HSB, I'd like to see the answer to this question, as well. I think we all would. How about it?
I admit nothing of the kind. I continue to stand by my interpretation that Jesus is YHWH. And the verse I've quoted about Abraham etc. is sufficient for me.
So really what this means is you choose not to participate in debate. It also shows that any disrespect your getting is by your own means. I just love it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
dwashbur
I don't deny that you probably have more technical knowledge than I do.
As such you should realize that YH can be taken as a shortened version of YHWH. Many Biblical Hebrew men's names contain the phoneme YaH. For example Elijah... can be broken down into Eli and YaH. Joel can be analyzed into YaH and El. Isaiah is Isai and YaH. Zechariah is Zechari and YaH. I admit my methodology is amateurish and perhaps repugnant to you. But I do know that YaH is a functional abbreviation of YaHWeH. And until now that little bit of knowledge (sloppy as it may be) has been sufficient for me. I am not trying to earn any doctorates or other fancy degrees. But truth is truth. Like it or not.
You can call it any way you like sport.Quote:
califdao3: So really what this means is you choose not to participate in debate. It also shows that any disrespect your getting is by your own means. I just love it.
I don't see it as debate necessarily. Question and answer is not necessarily debate. Question to me implies sincere question. Not baiting someone into making a fool of themselves. That is the refuge of tiny minds and perhaps sports fans.
The end of the world is not something to be 'sported' with. Another word for sporting in this context is mocking. That is your privilege to do, if that's your good pleasure. But as for me... this is in earnest.
You know me well enough by now that you know I don't mock you and have tried to help you out in several ways. I too am interested in the 1988 date, and am wondering how it came to be part of Mr. Camping's reckoning. You may have explained it earlier, but I don't remember in which thread (to go back to look for it). Nineteen eighty-eight was the year I started grad school, but I'm guessing that had nothing to do with how Mr. Camping was calculating.
Actually no its not in any way earnst. You spout words and have been trying to make others believe that it is but your not even practicing the bible. Yet your making wild claims. So its your choice as to how you follow through on things. But the only player I see so far is you.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
To me it's a little complicated because I have not personally worked through it before in a very formal way. As you know I do have a math and engineering background. And until I've formalized something like this I don't feel confident enough to make a presentation of it. I've only just absorbed enough of the data so that I have been able to have an almost intuitive grasp of that date. And I am a somewhat lazy scholar. That's why, if you need to have it immediately, I refer people to Mr. Camping's booklet The End of the Church Age and After. Right now I'm going to take an extended break. After that we'll see.Quote:
Wondergirl: You know me well enough by now that you know I don't mock you and have tried to help you out in several ways. I too am interested in the 1988 date, and am wondering how it came to be part of Mr. Camping's reckoning. You may have explained it earlier, but I don't remember in which thread (to go back to look for it). Nineteen eighty-eight was the year I started grad school, but I'm guessing that had nothing to do with how Mr. Camping was calculating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Quote:
I admit nothing of the kind.
Yes, YH is sometimes an abbreviated form of The Name. That fact is also meaningless in the present context. And I repeat, the deity of Jesus is not the question. Is Jesus God? Yes. I agree. The question has to do with that specific verse and your assertion that YHWH means "I Am" in Hebrew. Quit trying to dodge. You did acknowledge that the statement was wrong as far as you might know, so why are you backpedaling now? I'm talking about one specific statement you made. You keep trying to make it about the identity of Jesus, which again is NOT the question. If you're going to address my comments, please address them. Don't try to redirect to your own hobby-horses.Quote:
That one is my own, with some help from an Assemblies of Yahweh Bible. I do not claim to be an expert in the classic Greek or Hebrew languages.
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