If the bible is true, than, yes you are wrong. If by "heathen" you mean "unbeliever", then yes you are a "heathen". If by "heathen" you mean something derogatory, the no you are not a "heathen".Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Phil Debenham
|
If the bible is true, than, yes you are wrong. If by "heathen" you mean "unbeliever", then yes you are a "heathen". If by "heathen" you mean something derogatory, the no you are not a "heathen".Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
Phil Debenham
Much better put! I am very happy for you that you have find comfort in your faith. As long as you relize that other people can find a similar solace and comfort in their faiths. You may not understand it, you may not agree with it, but you need to respect their right to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by rideout2
I would add that there may be an "inbetween". The words of God and of Jesus were recorded by men. It is possible the words were not recorded exactly. Another possibility is that Jesus truly believed the things he taught. Even if they all weren't true, that does not make him a liar.
As I've said, I'm more concerned with living according to the ethical and moral guidelines set down in the Bible. I'm less concerned with the rest of trappings of worshipping some deity.
Yes. I understand what you mean..
No, it would not make him a liar, it would make him a lunatic.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I'm surprised to see you say that, Phil! Earlier in this thread someone insisted that God or Jesus had talked to her. Is she a lunatic? Does having faith in something, even where there is no concrete evidence, make someone crazy?Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
In my opinion, all religion is based on faith. Any evidence to support that faith is interpreted and not concrete. That does not make the faith any less powerful.
Phil,
The distionary says...
Lunatic:
* an insane person
* daredevil: a reckless impetuous irresponsible person
* insane and believed to be affected by the phases of the moon
I think that definition dose not apply to Jesus, but the word in the second definition line might apply to you.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Scott and Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
If Jesus truly believed the things he taught, and they were not true (of course I believe they were true), then that would make Jesus a lunatic. Jesus taught that he lived before Abraham, that he was the only way to the Father, that he was the "I AM." He taught that he would raise up his own body after he died. Surely, if I made those claims you would both consider me a lunatic!
Jesus was not a lunatic because what he taught is true.
There are really only three possibilities concerning Jesus in light of his life, teaching, and his death (which he could have avoided): he is either 1) a liar, 2) a lunatic, or 3) Lord. You need to decide which.
Phil Debenham
You are right. I agree...
phildebenham,
Why did you include me in that statement?
Jesus Christ has been my Lord and saviour for over 70 years.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
Phil,
Maybe my problem is with the term word lunatic. I find it to be pejorative and demeaning. A person can be delusional without suffering from lunacy. So I don't agree with your 3 options. Instead I would give the three as 1) a liar, 2) delusional or 3) son of God.
I would then opt for 2). His belief in his divinity was a mild delusion, but one caused him to do good works.
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
So, you have made the choice, and no, I did not mean that you, but rather, Scott has to make the choice. You did not understand how I could respond to Scott's question that if Jesus believed what he said but it was not true he would have been a lunatic... and then called me irresponsible... so I included you in the explanation.
YBIC,
Phil
What are good works? Who decides what is good?Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Ahh, now you seek to embroil me in a Catch 22. If there is no God, then how is a determination between good and evil made? Where did the Ten Commandments and the "Golden Rule" come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
I'll be honest and say I have no good answer for that. My feeling is that these things evolved from a sense of survival. That man, being a social animal, devised these mores and ethics to allow for a more ordered society. One that would allow the individual to grow without impeding on other individuals and the society as a whole. I also believe that religions came to exist partially to codify and enforce these ethics.
ScottGem:
I believe I had a response in the very beginning to the 15yo. I don't know if u saw it. Then we picked up the discussion further after it appeared that the girl left.
I don't want to go into the 3 major religions @ this point. I simply don't have time.
I agree with all the positive features of & in those religions.
But I still say that you are stating that you do not believe in God. You stated that YOU believe in a Judao-Christian ethic.
So why have you come to the RELIGION subcategory?
To be honest with you Scottgem, I see a problem with your thinking.
You said- "but we probably differ on the nature of the entity"
Did you know that Satan is an evil entity?
There are 2 key words I see that are being said by you that concerns me.
I am not a psychiatrist so don't take this to heart. But I do have some training in psychology.
The 2 words are in the same sentence. "NATURE" of the ENTITY"
When you can put down your anger and listen, I can show you how you can defeat the enemy through; FIRST by believing in God. The God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob, and Moses and yes, Jesus.
When you are willing to do that. Then you will truly have a Father in Heaven.
Then you can visit any Religion page & not have any confusion of the context of your response.
Your friend in Christ?
Me.
That if molecules to man evolution is true, and there is no God who has communicated with man, then man determines truth and truth is whatever you make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
I will now, and forever, chose #3. The reason is, it is the only one which is true... God bless..
I believe that is you are open to finding the True God and ask him to reveal Himself to you then that will occur. The God of the Bible whose son is Jesus Christ is the only profit to ever live and die and be seen afterwards and raised into the sky. YOu can read history books from that same time frame and find that the Bible is true and validated. There is nothing in the Bible that can't be verified. Just begin to read a small portion at a time and maybe even attend a bible study w/ some friends. Just be open and the True God will make himself known to you. There are many different religions and faiths and it can and is so confusing.
Some say there is no heaven or hell; others say there are both. Some say all you have to be is good to go to heaven. Find out what the Bible tells you about these things. I believe in both and don't believe that going to heaven has anything to do with being good all by itself. It's about your beliefs.
Praying for you to find your answer.
Those are good suggestions.
Peace and kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)
I hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong. Mohammed is Not the god of Islam, that is Allah. Mohammed was only a prophet. In actuality, Judaism. Christianity and Islam all worship the same god. Since all three acknowledge the Old Testament as the basis of each religion. The differences occur later as Christianity recognizes Jesus Christ as the son of God and Islam recognizes Mohammed as his last prophet.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakingkansas
As to prohecies and miracles, I think, if you research the Koran, more closely you will find Mohammed made a few prophecies and spoke of a few miracles.
If you want to believe that Christianity is the one true religion, that's your right. However, you will have to use a better argument, because yours is full of holes.
You might want to go here,
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-...h+God+the+same
Nostradamus is considered the greatest seer in history. Yet most of his predictions coming true are subject to interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakingkansas
I don't "think" that they all believe in the same god. Its established fact. As I said, both Christianity and Islam acknowledge the Old Testament. The god considered the father of Christ is the same god of Abraham, Joseph and Moses. Islam's Allah is also the same God from the Old Testament. If you have really been doing your research you would know this.
Where the religions diverge is in following the teachings of Christ and Mohammed as set down in the New Testament and the Koran.
I don't believe in organized religion period. I believe that ALL religions are a construct of man to explain things they were unexplainable to them. The major purposes of religion is to provide a moral code for people to follow. I DO believe in that moral code to a large extent. But I don't believe in the trappings that people have placed around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakingkansas
I haven't gone through that thread. But, I point to the facts. As I said, the facts are that all three major religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism) accept the Old Testament as the basis for their religions. Given that fact, they then have to accept the God described in the Old Testament.Quote:
Originally Posted by freakingkansas
I agree with Scott in that the religion is less important to me than a relationship with the God that YOU understand for moral and spiritual guidance.
Freakingkansas,
Thanks for your post.
I hope and pray you will do well and be bless in Christianity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
What ever you decide is best for you, I hope it works for you!
Yes,
I agree with Talaniman.
Peace and kindness,:) :) :)
Fred (arcura)
Comments on this post
RickJ agrees: Even as a rabid Catholic Christian I agree! :)
They have shots for that ::: ducking ::: <eg>
Yes, I know well there is medicine for that. We call it the Eucharist :D
Touché! :p :p
Peace and Blessings, Scott!
As a dedicated Catholic I agree.
The Eucharist works wonders of grace.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
Dear Animulover06,Quote:
Originally Posted by animeluver06
I was raised in a Catholic church. I was told that God was not going to let me into heaven unless I was good. As a parent, I thought the same as your parents had. I thought I would let my children decide for themselves. God, however, had different plans. He came very abruptly into my life, but very sweetly and quietly too. It is possible to go to hell without Jesus Christ. He is not religion, Child. He is the way the Truth and the Life. No one goes to the Father except through Him. The Holy Scriptures which are breathed by God alone and will stand forever state, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.", and "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." the word "believe" in the Hebrew language means to trust or to obey. If you are looking, it means He is calling you. No one can look for God on their own initiative. Only God can create that desire in you. Don't be afraid or confused. If you have a Bible, start looking and praying. God knows you. God loves you beyond measure. His love and ways are different than ours, so don't look for love the way we love. His is boundless, endless, and everlasting. Many questions will come up. Write to me if you want. I'm here to help. I have been seeking the Lord for 11 years now. I am secure in Him and trust Him completely. Keep seeking. I trust you are in His hands alone. Choose wisely and don't be fooled into other religions. They are all spinoffs of the one true hope. That is Jesus Christ. The reason so many oppose it is because it is of God. The road is wide to destruction (hell) and the path is narrow to salvation. Keep seeking. Trust God. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
Dear Animulover06,
I was raised in a Catholic church. I was told that God was not going to let me into heaven unless I was good. As a parent, I thought the same as your parents had. I thought I would let my children decide for themselves. God, however, had different plans. He came very abruptly into my life, but very sweetly and quietly too. It is possible to go to hell without Jesus Christ. He is not religion, Child. He is the way the Truth and the Life. No one goes to the Father except through Him. The Holy Scriptures which are breathed by God alone and will stand forever state, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.", and "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." the word "believe" in the Hebrew language means to trust or to obey. If you are looking, it means He is calling you. No one can look for God on their own initiative. Only God can create that desire in you. Don't be afraid or confused. If you have a Bible, start looking and praying. God knows you. God loves you beyond measure. His love and ways are different than ours, so don't look for love the way we love. His is boundless, endless, and everlasting. Many questions will come up. Write to me if you want. I'm here to help. I have been seeking the Lord for 11 years now. I am secure in Him and trust Him completely. Keep seeking. I trust you are in His hands alone. Choose wisely and don't be fooled into other religions. They are all spinoffs of the one true hope. That is Jesus Christ. The reason so many oppose it is because it is of God. The road is wide to destruction (hell) and the path is narrow to salvation. Keep seeking. Trust God. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ alone.
__________________
Micsadaisy :)
I am happy that you are secure and comfortable in yoiur beliefs. But I believe you do others a disservice by putting down their beliefs as you have in the above quote. Especially when its inaccurate. Christianity is actually a spinoff of Judaism, NOT the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micsadaisy
People "oppose" Christianity mostly because they have found something else that resonates with them as Christianity resonates with you. To say that Christianity is the only one and true hope is to show intolerance towards others.
wow thats kinda kool how people are still posting here. It is interesting to see what each person has to say about this. ^-^
And don't be fooled by those that profess to know the truth, as long as you agree with their idea of the truth, your okay with them, but just think on your own or don't toe their line, then they condemn you to eternal damnation. There are those in all religions by the way.Quote:
Choose wisely and don't be fooled into other religions.
First, If you want to reply to a thread, use the reply functions. E-mails or PMs should be used only for correspondence of a personal nature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micsadaisy
Second, it wasn't a matter of using the wrong word, but making an incorrect statement. You used the right word for what you were trying to say, but what you were saying is incorrect. Christianity is an outgrowth of Judaism. Its based on the Old Testament. But there are really no religions that "spin off" from Christianity. Judaism is the basis of both Christanity and Islam. Buddhism, Hinduism and other religions are both older than Christianity and stem from different beliefs so there is no "spin off".
Finally, No one is asking you to apologize for your beliefs. If you want to believe what you do and find comfort in it, then I'm happy for you. What you should apologize for is your intolerance. To believe that one can only be "saved" by worshipping a particular way is arrogant.
I've stated before that I don't believe in organized religion. But I do believe that if there is a God watching over us. A God that lifts us to heaven or condemns us to hell on a judgement day. Then such a god would not care HOW we worship him as long as we do worship him.
In my opinion God exists within each of us. In the beauty and intricacy of nature and the world. In the first smile on a newborn's face. In the first bloom of flowers in the spring. In the unique patterns of a snowflake. In the love one can feel for another being. God exists in the way we treat other people. And to tell someone else that they way they choose to worship God is wrong and not the truth, is to mistreat and abuse them. How anyone can take the universal love message of Jesus Christ and pervert it into a my way or the highway attitude is beyond me.
If you see me in line going through the Pearly Gate, don't feel bad about saying HI.Quote:
Choose wisely and don't be fooled into other religions.
Micsadaisy,
I agree with your post to Animeluver06 the 15 year old.
The search for good Christian religious experience MUST be with and through Jesus Christ in regard to what he did, taught, and demonstrated via word ad deed.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
What about a good spiritual experience that has nothing to do with religion at all? Or a relationship with the GOD that you understand that has no religion?
talaniman,
Is there such a thing?
To me everything spiritual is in some way religious because some form of spiritual belief is needed to have a spiritual experience.
God has no religion, and neither do I so I disgree that religion is needed.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:13 AM. |