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-   -   "Happy Holidays"? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=154276)

  • Dec 21, 2007, 09:53 AM
    Synnen
    Soldout--I hate to point this out to you, because you're on such a roll--

    It's not NON-Christians that object to the phrase "Happy Holidays". Most of us don't care if you wish us "Happy Peanut Butter And Jelly Left In the Cupboard Day".

    It's CHRISTIANS that object to the use of "Happy Holidays".

    Most non-Christians also don't care about the lights, trees, etc. We just don't want any idiocy BACK about our traditions.

    I'm not asking you to suppress your religion, you know. I'm asking you not to suppress MINE.

    The reason store clerks say "Happy Holidays" is because it's a way to acknowledge ALL of the holidays in the season. The only people that get mad about that are Christians, generally. They want everyone to say "Merry Christmas".

    Now--if I were a store clerk, and went according to MY beliefs, and wished everyone a great Solstice--how many people would that offend?

    I think anyone should be able to wish another person a happy whatever-their-personal-holiday-is. I don't want to suppress ANY religion.

    BUT--I'm ALSO not going to sit and take it if my boss instructs me to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, because I personally don't believe it.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 10:31 AM
    Soldout
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Synnen
    Soldout--I hate to point this out to you, because you're on such a roll--

    It's not NON-Christians that object to the phrase "Happy Holidays". Most of us don't care if you wish us "Happy Peanut Butter And Jelly Left In the Cupboard Day".

    It's CHRISTIANS that object to the use of "Happy Holidays".

    Most non-Christians also don't care about the lights, trees, etc. We just don't want any idiocy BACK about our traditions.

    I'm not asking you to suppress your religion, you know. I'm asking you not to suppress MINE.

    The reason store clerks say "Happy Holidays" is because it's a way to acknowledge ALL of the holidays in the season. The only people that get mad about that are Christians, generally. They want everyone to say "Merry Christmas".

    Now--if I were a store clerk, and went according to MY beliefs, and wished everyone a great Solstice--how many people would that offend?

    I think anyone should be able to wish another person a happy whatever-their-personal-holiday-is. I don't want to suppress ANY religion.

    BUT--I'm ALSO not going to sit and take it if my boss instructs me to wish everyone a Merry Christmas, because I personally don't believe it.

    No one wants to suppress your pagon religion but if your religion consists of 0.0000000000001% of the american population don't expect your religion to have as much prominence as one that consists of almost 80% of the Population. December for centuaries has always been recognised in Europe, US and over 60% of the countries in the world as a time to celebrate Christmas. When muslims celebrate Ramadan I don't go around harassing them to include my religion and not suppress it. So why is that when Christians have their holiday every little religion needs to all of sudden be recognised? & for an FYI the reason December 25 is a National holiday in countries all over the world its not because of your pagon moon god I can tell you that... lol
  • Dec 21, 2007, 10:41 AM
    Synnen
    Your religion chose December 25th to coincide with Saturnalia--back when Christians were 0.0000000001% of the population.

    I'm NOT trying to suppress your religion. I'm just trying to point out that people say "Happy Holidays" because MANY religions have holidays in December. Hate to point this out to you, but Hannukah was around before Christmas, too :P

    In December you have: Hannukah (Judaism); Bodhi Day (Buddhism); Eid al-adha (Islamic); Christmas (Christian); Solstice/Saturnalia/Yule (Pagan); Kwanzaa (African-American).

    I don't know about you, but I count SIX holidays in that list. And "every little religion"? Yeah--because Buddhism, Judaism, and Islam are "little religions".

    I don't need to be recognized, either. Is your God as close-minded as you are? I just need to not be suppressed. Religious freedom in America means ALL religions. I don't stop you from stealing my religions traditions and believing them to be your own--and I expect the same from you.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 11:24 AM
    Soldout
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Synnen
    Your religion chose December 25th to coincide with Saturnalia--back when Christians were 0.0000000001% of the population.

    I'm NOT trying to suppress your religion. I'm just trying to point out that people say "Happy Holidays" because MANY religions have holidays in December. Hate to point this out to you, but Hannukah was around before Christmas, too :P

    In December you have: Hannukah (Judaism); Bodhi Day (Buddhism); Eid al-adha (Islamic); Christmas (Christian); Solstice/Saturnalia/Yule (Pagan); Kwanzaa (African-American).

    I don't know about you, but I count SIX holidays in that list. And "every little religion"? Yeah--because Buddhism, Judaism, and Islam are "little religions".

    I don't need to be recognized, either. Is your God as close-minded as you are? I just need to not be suppressed. Religious freedom in America means ALL religions. I don't stop you from stealing my religions traditions and believing them to be your own--and I expect the same from you.

    Okey... all those Holidays are wonderful and are free to celebrate but they obviously don't receive the same recognision as Christmas because those religions represent fractions of a percentage of the population and most of them are not part of the Unites State's historic herritage that has always recognised Christmas, maybe you should be asking yourself why December 25 Christmas Day is National Holiday and those other ones are not.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 11:54 AM
    Soldout
    Quote:

    Aton3 disagrees: The 'traditions' you mention have NOTHING to do with any Saviour!
    Lol.. you must be slow or you just don't know any history
  • Dec 21, 2007, 12:05 PM
    ordinaryguy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Soldout
    So i think non-christians need to make up their minds. If they want to part take in our Christmas traditions, trees stanta etc, they are free to do so but they should not have double standard and demand that we call it happy holiday because it is just a holiday, its Christmas.
    .......

    okey... all those Holidays are wonderful and are free to celebrate but they obviously dont recieve the same recognision as Christmas because those religions represent fractions of a percentage of the population

    Here's what your position amounts to, as I read it:

    "There's more of US than of THEM, so THEY should greet EVERYBODY with best wishes for OUR holiday. If they don't, it shows that they're Anti-Christian"

    Pathetic.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Synnen
    Is your God as close-minded as you are?

    Must be.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 01:54 PM
    magprob
    Yes, Christmas is an evil holiday. I will as usual dress up in my Satan costume, light my dry pine tree on fire and dance around it with wreckless abandon. After the death dance has been completed, we will have a wild drunkin orgy and finish up by drinking the blood of a virgin.
    We will then settle in the parlor where we will exchange gifts with our evil loved ones. I just love this time of year.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 02:24 PM
    Soldout
    [QUOTE=ordinaryguy]Here's what your position amounts to, as I read it:

    [QUOTE]"There's more of US than of THEM, so THEY should greet EVERYBODY with best wishes for OUR holiday. If they don't, it shows that they're Anti-Christian"Pathetic[/Q.UOTE]

    Bingo, they already have Christmas decorations, Christmas Music playing, Santa etc in public places and the a day off, so what's big deal? Welcome to America, after all the National Holiday is on Decemeber 25th Christmas day and that is the holiday that is and always has been "nationaly" recognised even by taking the day off in this country. So like I said before, if it makes you mad that Christmas gets more recognision then you can move to a country that doesn't recognise Christmas. The are plenty of countries that don't in the middle east and Asia.

    Quote:

    Must be
    Yes, call Him closed minded if you want, but He happens to say He is the one and Only God who created the Universe.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 05:52 PM
    jillianleab
    Maybe I'm alone here, but I think that if after 17 pages and 168 posts someone doesn't "get it"; perhaps we should stop trying to explain it... It apparently does no good, and I don't want to get a hand cramp trying to explain it all over again.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 08:13 PM
    fallen2grace
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Soldout
    It should just be Merry Christmas because ALL of these stores have Christmas lights, Trees, Santa etc so if they really want to be "inclusive" of all religions they should not display Christmas lights, play Christmas music e.t.c Because that means the store is sending a message that they do support Christmas anyway. so Why not say Merry Christamas.


    Heh! I just saw a Vacum commertial that had a santa. And he said Happy Holidays. I laughed.

    Actually, This year hasn't been so bad. I found that a lot of stores say Merry Christmas. Actually all the one's I've been too haven't said it. Except the Disny Store. But usually they just say have a nice day.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 08:18 PM
    fallen2grace
    Quote:

    You want Christ back in Christmas? Then by all means wish people a Merry Christmas. Just don't get mad when they wish YOU happy holidays because they aren't Christians.
    Actually, When I say Merry Christmas They wish me it back.
  • Dec 21, 2007, 08:32 PM
    fallen2grace
    Quote:

    Synnen disagrees: But you WILL find items--like lights, and gifts and wreaths and candles and mistletoe and holly that cater to the PAGAN community. It was OUR holiday first, and they STILL push the Saturnalia aspects, only they call it Christmas now.
    So What your saying is, Christmas was the pagan's holiday first?
  • Dec 21, 2007, 09:59 PM
    sGt HarDKorE
    I think it depends where you live too, I never hear happy holidays and everyone at stores and places are really reallly really nice x5. Idk people just seem happier and stuff, maybe it was the large amount of snow that adds that effect, but w/e it is, my teachers still say christmas break and so do I and everyone I know. Ive never heard of Holiday Break
  • Dec 21, 2007, 11:35 PM
    Synnen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fallen2grace
    So What your saying is, Christmas was the pagan's holiday first?


    Christmas' pagan origins

    Considering that Pagan traditions, especially those of the Romans, Celts, and Egyptians, were in place well before 1 AD, I would say that Pagan traditions existed first, and were adopted into Christian religions.

    Of COURSE, this is debated. EVERYTHING having to do with Christianity is debated CONSTANTLY (or at least it seems that way to me).

    Either way--Saturnalia, Yule, and Sol Invictus were around long before Christianity was, and have many of the same traditions--candles, gifts, and evergreen trees being some of the major ones.

    Christians can't even agree on when Christ's birthday WAS. So--why NOT pick a day and traditions that would make it easy to convert people?
  • Dec 22, 2007, 12:30 AM
    rpg219
    Merry or Happy whatever you have... why can't we just leave it at that? Happy Holidays is just as nice (if you are christian) and if you aren't, then it covers you too. I just don't agree with Santa saying hahaha.

    BTW: Happy PB&J in Your Pantry Day, Synnen (because around this time of year... that's all we have money left for, heehee)... just kidding... have a happy solstice (did I spell that right?)... or would it be Merry Solstice?? Whichever, live it up to the fullest of your ability. And may everyone wish me a merry christmas :)
  • Dec 22, 2007, 10:59 AM
    Aton3
    Lets all sing:
    "Happy Birthday to you,
    Happy Birthday to you,
    Happy Birthday, Dear Mithra,
    Happy Birthday to you."
  • Dec 22, 2007, 04:21 PM
    fallen2grace
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Aton3
    Lets all sing:
    "Happy Birthday to you,
    Happy Birthday to you,
    Happy Birthday, Dear Mithra,
    Happy Birthday to you."


    Who?
  • Dec 22, 2007, 04:34 PM
    ordinaryguy
    I'm unsubscribing from this thread now. Happy Festivus, everybody!
  • Dec 22, 2007, 05:26 PM
    NeedKarma
    Happy Festivus!
    The pole looks great. Let the arm wrestling begin!
  • Dec 22, 2007, 06:42 PM
    Aton3
    Tj3:
    I don't worship everyone whom I wish a happy Birthday. Mithra was born of a virgin, on December 25, had 12 followers, one for each house in the Zodiac , institued a Eucharist to be celebrated in his memory, died and was resurrected. If that is not the myth from which Paul extrated his Christ, then the moon is made of green cheese. No one knows when Jesus was born (unless you have found a record of his birth certificate)... could be anywhere (using YOUR scripture as a reference) from 6 b.c.e. to 4 c.e. HIS birthday is one more steal from pagan origins. Worship whom ever you will, but at least KNOW who it is you worship!
  • Dec 22, 2007, 07:57 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Aton3
    Tj3:
    I don't worship everyone whom I wish a happy Birthday. Mithra was born of a virgin, on December 25, had 12 followers, one for each house in the Zodiac , institued a Eucharist to be celebrated in his memory, died and was resurrected. If that is not the myth from which Paul extrated his Christ, then the moon is made of green cheese. No one knows when Jesus was born (unless you have found a record of his birth certificate)....could be anywhere (using YOUR scripture as a reference) from 6 b.c.e. to 4 c.e. HIS birthday is one more steal from pagan origins. Worship whom ever you will, but at least KNOW who it is you worship!

    1) Jesus was not born on December 25th. The date was chosen as a date to celebrate His birth. The date of His birth is not important to Christians.

    2) Historical evidence for Mithraism goes back to approximately 90AD, therefore if one was a copy, it would have to be Mithraism copying from Christianity

    3) Mithra was not born of a virgin, the myth is that he was born from a rock.

    4) Jesus had thousands of followers (3,000 came to follow Jesus in one day - Acts 2). He had 12 apostles.

    5) Mithra did not sacrifice himself, he sacrificed a bull. Without a death, there could be no resurrection.

    Ritual meals were held for many reasons and many religions in the middle east at that time, so one more doesn't prove anything. In fact none of these points means anything after you realize that the myth of Mithra is too late to have been a source for the Biblical account of Jesus.
  • Dec 22, 2007, 09:26 PM
    Aton3
    Tj3:

    The date of Jesus birth should be of PROFOUND importance to those Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrent, inspired word of God... for the chronlogical 'evidence' found in the Bible is totally contradictroy, making it impossible to determine whether Jesus was born in 6 b.c.e. or 4 c.e.

    Mithra (Mitra) and the religon of Mitraism is attested to in both Iranian and Hindu Scripture... including the Rig Veda... making belief in Mithra preceeeding Christianity by more than a Century. (See Canney's "Encyclopedia of Religons"... and refer to the historical writings of S. REINACH. Mithraism has spread to the entire Oriental world during the reign of Alexander the Great... and was introduced into the West in the first half of the First Century c.e "The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion throughout the Roman Empire.

    The fact that Mithrism predated Christianity to about 1400 b.c.e. and that Paul was immersed in the Hellenistic millieu where dying and resurrected 'saviours' were a dime-a-dozen, certainly shoots your 90AD theory right out of the historical pond, and shows exactly WHERE Paul came up with the idea for his God/Messiah.
  • Dec 22, 2007, 09:39 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Aton3
    Tj3:

    The date of Jesus birth should be of PROFOUND importance to those Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrent, inspired word of God... for the chronlogical 'evidence' found in the Bible is totally contradictroy, making it impossible to determine whether Jesus was born in 6 b.c.e. or 4 c.e.

    You were trying to suggest a comparison for the exact day with the myth of Mithra, and the exact date is not important. What is important is that Jesus was born and died for our sins on the cross.

    Quote:

    Mithra (Mitra) and the religon of Mitraism is attested to in both Iranian and Hindu Scripture... including the Rig Veda... making belief in Mithra preceeeding Christianity by more than a Century. (See Canney's "Encyclopedia of Religons"... and refer to the historical writings of S. REINACH. Mithraism has spread to the entire Oriental world during the reign of Alexander the Great... and was introduced into the West in the first half of the First Century c.e "The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion throughout the Roman Empire.

    The fact that Mithrism predated Christianity to about 1400 b.c.e. and that Paul was immersed in the Hellenistic millieu where dying and resurrected 'saviours' were a dime-a-dozen, certainly shoots your 90AD theory right out of the historical pond, and shows exactly WHERE Paul came up with the idea for his God/Messiah.
    I could refute your dates, but it does not matter and it is not worth the effort, because not only does history disagree with your claims, but the parallels that you claimed do not exist.
  • Dec 22, 2007, 09:53 PM
    fallen2grace
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Aton3
    Tj3:

    The date of Jesus birth should be of PROFOUND importance to those Christians who claim the Bible is the inerrent, inspired word of God... for the chronlogical 'evidence' found in the Bible is totally contradictroy, making it impossible to determine whether Jesus was born in 6 b.c.e. or 4 c.e.

    Mithra (Mitra) and the religon of Mitraism is attested to in both Iranian and Hindu Scripture...including the Rig Veda....making belief in Mithra preceeeding Christianity by more than a Century. (See Canney's "Encyclopedia of Religons"...and refer to the historical writings of S. REINACH. Mithraism has spread to the entire Oriental world during the reign of Alexander the Great...and was introduced into the West in the first half of the First Century c.e "The immense popularity of his worship is attested by the monuments illustrative of it which have been found scattered in profusion thoughout the Roman Empire.

    The fact that Mithrism predated Christianity to about 1400 b.c.e., and that Paul was immersed in the Hellenistic millieu where dying and resurrected 'saviours' were a dime-a-dozen, certainly shoots your 90AD theory right out of the historical pond, and shows exactly WHERE Paul came up with the idea for his God/Messiah.

    It doesn't matter what day Jesus was born. It's that he WAS born, that is what is important.
  • Dec 23, 2007, 05:42 PM
    mstkay76
    Just my two cents for whatever it's worth...

    While Christmas and the celebration thereof has, in past years, represented the birth of Jesus, our Savior, in today's world it's just a holiday wherein you give gifts to friends, family, etc. thanks much to commercialization.

    The Bible is very specific about the 'Holy' days we are to celebrate and "Christmas" is nowhere to be found among that list.

    With those thoughts in mind, I don't think saying, "Happy Holidays" or being told "Happy Holidays" is necessarily a bad thing because as Christians (or other) we are not entitled to anything but equality, the pursuit of happiness and religious freedom just like those who may not celebrate what we believe in but are US citizens.

    When a Christian (or other) gets so upset about the PCness we are doing the very same as the rest of the groups who carry on and by default we are placing ourselves in the very same 'category' if you will.

    Granted, the US was originally puritanical and Christian. Each person who immigrated here back then did so for opportunity and to escape religious persecution. That is why the Constitution allows for religious freedom. Which means, all those immigrating here or those who are already here but choosing other forms of religion are afforded that very same religious freedom without persecution.

    The US being the melting pot of diversity that it is and that we have touted for years upon years, we can't much expect that "Christianity and Christians" would remain the majority.

    While saying "Merry Christmas" is not persecuting, in my humble opinion, some may feel it is. Thus the PCness of "Happy Holidays" which covers every possibility under the sun, moon and stars.

    As a God fearing human, I do not feel the need to say "Merry Christmas" in order to know what I believe, celebrate what I believe and express my joy and wishes for joy to others during this season.

    With that said, I wish all Christians a Merry Christmas and to the rest of you, whatever religion you may be, I wish you Happy Holidays.
  • Dec 25, 2007, 11:55 PM
    fallen2grace
    Quote:

    Aton3 disagrees: If you have no records of his "birth", how can you ever expect anyone to even believe that he ever existed??
    It's a little thing I like to call Faith and Believing.
  • Dec 26, 2007, 05:11 AM
    NowWhat
    Hello.

    (For those who celebrate... )I hope everyone had a very MERRY CHRISTMAS! :)
  • Dec 26, 2007, 09:19 AM
    Tj3
    With respect to records of Jesus birth, that is a non-issue. It would be interesting to ask Aton to produce the records documenting the birth of most historical figures of that timeframe. They also do not exist. Would Aton therefore deny that they were born?

    Why do some people try to apply one standard for the evidence of the facts surrounding Jesus, and a dramatically lesser standard for believing that other parts of history are absolute fact?
  • Dec 26, 2007, 10:32 PM
    Synnen
    TJ3--Point to me some evidence NOT in the Bible. The Bible is enough for Christians, but NOT for the rest of us. Also--many of us who have pagan religions had much of our history obliterated with the burning of witches--by Christians!--throughout the centuries.

    To everyone else--I hope you had a truly wonderful holiday! I hope the Jews had a terrific Hannukah, and the Christians a wonderful Christmas! To my fellow Pagans--I hope your Solstice/Yule/Saturnalia was as wonderful and profound as mine was! To those who celebrate Ramadan and Kwanzaa--I'm not sure on the dates for those this year, so I hope it was/will be all that you hope!

    To everyone, I hope your New Year is filled with health, prosperity, truth, love, and peace!
  • Dec 26, 2007, 10:49 PM
    worthbeads
    What I'm tired of is people of other religions complaining about Christian related stuff, including Christmas. Pardon my French, but unless you have the balls to take over the U.S. you don't complain about Christian activities in a dominantly christiam country! Just be thankful we even let you into our country!

    And don't be replying and telling me what a racist pig I am, because I know my views are controversial, they always are. Again, that's what you get for coming into a controversial country!
  • Dec 26, 2007, 11:33 PM
    Synnen
    Why SHOULD I leave? Why should I HAVE to leave?

    I was born here too!

    THAT is why people get p!ssy at Christians, you know. That whole attitude of "there are more of us, so do it OUR way" is pretty intolerant and hypocritical in a country where there is freedom of religion.

    Funny thing--I went with my husband's Christian family to church on Christmas eve. The pastor started the sermon out with a political story about how some Christians overcame the whole "prayer in school" thing. It made me so mad that I forgot the reason we were all together was supposed to be "love", and it made me NOT listen to the rest of her sermon. Who was she preaching to--the choir? Any non-Christian in her audience (and I knew of a couple others who agreed with me after the service) was so completely turned off by the pastor's timing and choice of sermon on a day (of ALL days!) when love and tolerance should have been the message. Is THAT how you all hope to convert people, and win them to your cause?

    I frankly don't CARE that you outnumber me. If you can be vocal about YOUR religion, I can be vocal about MINE, right? And so can thousands of others--and we ARE!

    We aren't asking you to give up your religion, or convert to any of our religions. We ARE asking that you be as tolerant to OUR religions as we've been to YOURS for the last 200 years.

    But--I guess that's too much to ask from a religion who touts that you should turn the other cheek and that you should treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated, hmm?
  • Dec 27, 2007, 06:36 AM
    NeedKarma
    Many of us from outside the U.S. read this thread and feels lucky we do not live there. So-called 'christians' there have bastardized the teachings of Jesus into something unrecognizable.
  • Dec 27, 2007, 12:35 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by worthbeads
    What I'm tired of is people of other religions complaining about Christian related stuff, including Christmas. Pardon my French, but unless you have the balls to take over the U.S. you don't complain about Christian activities in a dominantly christiam country! Just be thankful we even let you into our country!

    And don't be replying and telling me what a racist pig I am, because I know my views are controversial, they always are. Again, that's what you get for coming into a controversial country!

    Worthbeads, most of us who engage in these threads are controversial at one time or another on this web site. Your post doesn't have anything to do with your apparent desire to proudly display your controversial nature. Your attempt to dictate how people should respond to you is rather Hitleresque in nature. Why shouldn't someone reply and tell you that you are a "racist pig" when it is obvious that is just what you are?

    "Just be thankful we even let you into our country." Are you serious? Are you a Native American who converted to Christianity? Or, were you instrumental in the formation and organization of the country? Did you come over on the Mayflower? You didn't "let" me into this country. I was born here just as you were.

    The people who founded this country were of a different Christianity than most of the more vocal Christian respondents on this thread. The majority of the founding fathers of the U.S. were Episcopalian/Anglican, followed by Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Quaker, Dutch Reformed/German Reformed, Lutheran, Catholic, Huguenot, Unitarian, Methodist, Calvinist. Puritans and Deists were among them.

    Prior to the formation of the United States, not only were the original inhabitants NOT Christian (Native Americans), but the people who chose to leave their homelands behind and begin life in a harsh and unknown environment chose to do so as a direct result of being persecuted in their own countries for their religious beliefs.

    Worthbeads (and others who have stated a desire that non-Christians leave the U.S.), why did your ancestors come to this country and not stay in their homeland? My ancestors were persecuted and murdered for their beliefs too. They chose this country due to the invitation that was made to them to live in a land where they would find freedom from religious persecution. So, all the mewling on this thread and others throughout this web site about how those of us who are not Christian should be thankful to Christians for allowing us to live in the U.S. is purely hate inspired garbage.

    Your tired of.. What I am tired of are people who are intolerant of anyone who does not pray as they do and find that it is more appropriate to spread words of hate rather than love. I am tired of people who are so steeped in their hatred of others that they assume simply because someone wishes them a Happy Holiday that the person offering up a simple pleasantry this time of year, is purposefully trying to undermine Christmas and in so doing, assuming that person is trying to undermine their entire belief system. It is a very paranoid delusion. You don't like it when people in stores don't wish you a Merry Christmas? As DeMaria said much earlier on, let them know you disapprove by not shopping in their stores. But to verbally abuse people here, tell them they should leave this country because they don't want to say "Merry Christmas" because they do not celebrate it, is more than intolerant. It smacks of racism. Your sense of entitlement, along with Soldout's here on this thread, are figments of your fractured imaginations and meanderings.

    The original post by Fallen2Grace asked for people's opinions. People gave their opinions. Why can't some individuals on this web site graciously accept that there will be differences of opinions and leave it at that instead of getting into a verbal dispute or choose to spew hateful garbage such as telling people to leave this country?

    By the way, some people don't even think about the many different religious affiliations this time of year. They choose "Happy Holidays" to include not only Christmas (or Hannukah, Solstice, Kwanzaa, Festivus,. ) but the New Year as well. Take the freaking chips off your shoulders already and recognize that people are merely offering up a different pleasantry this time of year instead of the usual "Have a nice day."
  • Dec 27, 2007, 12:39 PM
    JoeCanada76
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Many of us from outside the U.S. read this thread and feels lucky we do not live there. So-called 'christians' there have bastardized the teachings of Jesus into something unrecognizable.

    I agree here.
  • Dec 27, 2007, 01:07 PM
    jillianleab
    Ruby, you kick butt! :D
  • Dec 27, 2007, 01:10 PM
    worthbeads
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RubyPitbull
    Worthbeads, most of us who engage in these threads are controversial at one time or another on this web site. Your post doesn't have anything to do with your apparent desire to proudly display your controversial nature. Your attempt to dictate how people should respond to you is rather Hitleresque in nature. Why shouldn't someone reply and tell you that you are a "racist pig" when it is obvious that is just what you are?

    "Just be thankful we even let you into our country." Are you serious? Are you a Native American who converted to Christianity? Or, were you instrumental in the formation and organization of the country? Did you come over on the Mayflower? You didn't "let" me into this country. I was born here just as you were.

    The people who founded this country were of a different Christianity than most of the more vocal Christian respondents on this thread. The majority of the founding fathers of the U.S. were Episcopalian/Anglican, followed by Presbyterian, Congregationalist, Quaker, Dutch Reformed/German Reformed, Lutheran, Catholic, Huguenot, Unitarian, Methodist, Calvinist. Puritans and Deists were among them.

    Prior to the formation of the United States, not only were the original inhabitants NOT Christian (Native Americans), but the people who chose to leave their homelands behind and begin life in a harsh and unknown environment chose to do so as a direct result of being persecuted in their own countries for their beliefs.

    Worthbeads (and others who have stated a desire that non-Christians leave the U.S.), why did your ancestors come to this country and not stay in their homeland? My ancestors were persecuted and murdered for their beliefs too. They chose this country due to the invitation that was made to them to live in a land where they would find freedom from religious persecution. So, all the mewling on this thread and others throughout this web site about how those of us who are not Christian should be thankful to Christians for allowing us to live in the U.S. is purely hate inspired garbage.

    Your tired of...? What I am tired of are people who are intolerant of anyone who does not pray as they do and find that it is more appropriate to spread words of hate rather than love. I am tired of people who are so steeped in their hatred of others that they assume simply because someone wishes them a Happy Holiday that the person offering up a simple pleasantry this time of year, is purposefully trying to undermine Christmas and in so doing, assuming that person is trying to undermine their entire belief system. It is a very paranoid delusion. You don't like it when people in stores don't wish you a Merry Christmas? As DeMaria said much earlier on, let them know you disapprove by not shopping in their stores. But to verbally abuse people here, tell them they should leave this country because they don't want to say "Merry Christmas" because they do not celebrate it, is more than intolerant. It smacks of racism. Your sense of entitlement, along with Soldout's here on this thread, are figments of your fractured imaginations and meanderings.

    The original post by Fallen2Grace asked for people's opinions. People gave their opinions. Why can't some individuals on this web site graciously accept that there will be differences of opinions and leave it at that instead of getting into a verbal dispute or choose to spew hateful garbage such as telling people to leave this country?

    By the way, some people don't even think about the many different religious affiliations this time of year. They choose "Happy Holidays" to include not only Christmas (or Hannukah, Solstice, Kwanzaa, Festivus,...) but the New Year as well. Take the freaking chips off your shoulders already and recognize that people are merely offering up a different pleasantry this time of year instead of the usual "Have a nice day."

    Do you know what I am really tired of? People like you, RudyPitbull. People like you take what I say and twist it a thousand times, creating an idea that is not mine but claiming it is. Did I say I hated people of other religions? Did I say I wanted them out of this country? No. Then why do you claim that I do? If anyone here is a judgmental pig, it is you. Rather than warping people's opinions, respect them instead.

    And by the way, the reason I say "Nobody call me a racist pig" is because I Don't want them two. Maybe next time if you actually use your head you might follow directions.
  • Dec 27, 2007, 01:13 PM
    worthbeads
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RubyPitbull
    The original post by Fallen2Grace asked for people's opinions. People gave their opinions. Why can't some individuals on this web site graciously accept that there will be differences of opinions and leave it at that instead of getting into a verbal dispute or choose to spew hateful garbage such as telling people to leave this country?

    All right, first let's start with you. Respect my opinion!
  • Dec 27, 2007, 01:14 PM
    jillianleab
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NeedKarma
    Many of us from outside the U.S. read this thread and feels lucky we do not live there. So-called 'christians' there have bastardized the teachings of Jesus into something unrecognizable.

    I can see that. I think it stems from the sense of "greatness" and "superiority" many Americans feel they have simply because they are American. People also have a tendency to act like complete a-holes when in large groups, or look that way when referred to en masse. To be fair, most of the people I encounter on a daily basis (99.9%) don't project their radicalism quite like it's done on this site. I promise, not all of us 'mericans are bad! :D

    Back to the topic...
  • Dec 27, 2007, 01:18 PM
    RubyPitbull
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by worthbeads
    What I'm tired of is people of other religions complaining about Christian related stuff, including Christmas. Pardon my French, but unless you have the balls to take over the U.S. you don't complain about Christian activities in a dominantly christiam country! Just be thankful we even let you into our country!

    And don't be replying and telling me what a racist pig I am, because I know my views are controversial, they always are. Again, that's what you get for coming into a controversial country!

    I did not twist your words. They are right there in black and white. Of course you are entitled to your opinion worthbeads, but what you have written is not an opinion, it is a message full of hate for others who do not believe as you do. Your follow up posts just cement it.
  • Dec 27, 2007, 01:23 PM
    worthbeads
    Where does it say I hate people of other religions? Where does it say I want them out of the country. Where does it say "this is not my opinion, just some racist stuff I wanted to yell at everyone because I hate all living things"?

    Please keep in mind my follow up questions were supposed to send a message of my outrage, but my original post wasn't supposed to be pure hatred, despite what you think.

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