Wow, a foresensic anthropologist. Always strikes me as funny that people will believe and give a lot of merit to persons that are of the opinion God does not exist based on personal experiences, although if a beleiver gives an account of why they do believe in God it's considered preaching?

The question of the existence of God dates back many thousands of years ago, Socrates spoke of it, Plato spoke of it, Dante spoke of it, although we are analyzibg the views of a video and some NY City anthropologist. The above mentioned persons were, and still are, regarded as the most intelligent thinkers of all time, they practically shaped the world through their theories and ideas. ALL, believed in God, all gave reasons they believed in God, reasons I doubt many here would be able to argue against (some of the greatest thinkers of all time could'nt).

What also strikes me as ironic is that Einstein, regarded as the most brilliant scientist to ever exist, also believed in God, although he too made no argument nor did he attempt to prove his belief through science, he just believed. So instead of arguing or debating with me and others on this site, perhaps you would be better off researching their views rather than other, less credible literature. Maybe that would give some more perspective.

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

so many saying show me proof that god is real, but they have no proof of how they breathe every day or love. how can you really love without god? he is love. '' BELOVED LET US LOVE ONE ANOTHER FOR LOVE IS OF GOD AND EVERY ONE THAT LOVETH IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWETH GOD, HE THAT LOVETH NOT KNOWETH NOT GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE'' 1st JOHN 4: 7-8

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Proof is in science, you can read about it or watch NOVA. They slam lifeless molecules together and create compounds etc... NOVA | Transcripts | Origins: How Life Began | PBS

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

Years ago I watched a documentary on A&E about death. I remember the leading NY forensic anthropologist started his career as a firm die hard "believer", after a few years on the job he became an atheist stating that "NON QUOTE: A God would never allow the things to happen to little children and people that he has seen happen." People say it is part of gods plan? The little girl would be brutally raped and murdered & die the most horrific death imaginable. If that is gods plan then he is very sadistic, and I wouldn't consider him to be my friend. And if I were a believer and that was my little girl everyone around me including myself would blame the man and wish death upon him. Then people say "It was the devil somehow working through the man who committed the crime" and I say, your God could have prevented it.
I think its silly to believe that a God would humour an evil force such as the devil and allow that man who committed the violent sick crime to become what he became as a result to his horrific unbearable childhood. I'm running long on this outside the bible view, but to sum it up. Why would a all powerful God need puppets? Do gods get bored? Where would a little girls suffering show up in this divine plan? Why would a god need a plan? Plans are for
vacations, or go to a party. Plans are for humans not Gods.

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Hey GQ - :)

No you couldn't be more right - Having anyone harmed is never in God's plan especially children.

Gregg, God gave each of us a free will in hopes that we do turn to him, in hopes we do the right thing.

I know I keep relaying it to Being a parent, but it's the best correlation I can come up with.

It's like your beatuful child, as much as your heart will want to follow him around 24/7, there will be a time, that his little wings will spread and off to school he will go and you will have to leave go for some hours of the day. During that time he may run into negative peer pressure, now you hope with all your heart that your wonderful teachings that you have done at home, will kick in and he will make the right choice. But you won't be able to be there to scoop him up out of harms way.

It's sort of the same thing. God is watching over each of us and hoping beyond hope that we love each other and stay in his light. But he will not force you to love him.

And no those children that get hurt is a direct result of some human being very very sick.

I wish I could express it better, but I am trying.

If God would intervene on my whole day... Guess what... Dear Allheart here would have
Her feet up counting her millions ;) . But guess what, life where everything was done for us and we just sat around, and didn't have to think as hard, or work as hard, or learn or teach...

We would never meet our potetial. We would never know the gifts that we truly do possess.

Once again, if you have a son, you don't want him to win the game and all he did was sit on the bench, you want him to go out there do his very best, and get that game winning run :).

I'm making myself dizzy :)

I do love you all - I truly do.

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Originally Posted by BMI

Wow, a foresensic anthropologist. Always strikes me as funny that people will beleive and give alot of merit to persons that are of the opinion God does not exist based on personal experiences, although if a beleiver gives an account of why they do beleive in God it's considered preaching?

The question of the existence of God dates back many thousands of years ago, Socrates spoke of it, Plato spoke of it, Dante spoke of it, although we are analyzibg the views of a video and some NY City anthropologist. The above mentioned persons were, and still are, regarded as the most intelligent thinkers of all time, they practically shaped the world through their theories and ideas. ALL, beleived in God, all gave reasons why they beleived in God, reasons I doubt many here would be able to argue against (some of the greatest thinkers of all time could'nt).

What also strikes me as ironic is that Einstein, regarded as the most brilliant scientist to ever exist, also beleived in God, although he too made no argument nor did he attempt to proove his beleif through science, he just beleived. So instead of arguing or debating with me and others on this site, perhaps you would be better off researching their views rather than other, less credible literature. Maybe that would give some more perspective.

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It was in relation to the discussion just prior. It is in reference to a person who sees the worst of evil close up, and how it effected his beliefs. And do you really think for a second Albert Einstein would come out and say, " Oh yeah... There is probably no GOD!! He would have had better luck saying he was gay. LOL, don't be so quick to be a prick in this room. You can communicate with out being a smart as#.

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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Proof is in science, you can read about it or watch NOVA. They slam lifeless molecules together and create compounds etc... NOVA | Transcripts | Origins: How Life Began | PBS

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Who slams those compounds together i ask. See i can't for the life of me understand how that first person got here to mix anything together. Or how the tree's know how to grow and nature knows how to water it and when we grow a child in our body, how does our body know just how much milk to make for that baby i could go on and on. You seem like a very kind person but i have seen things that you can't imagine and i guess your saying that you want proof and we can't give that to you. See the bible says we must work out our own salvation with conviction. I am going to pray everyday that god himself will show you proof. Love to ya

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

WHO SLAMS THOSE COMPOUNDS 2GETHER I ASK. SEE I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND HOW THAT FIRST PERSON GOT HERE TO MIX ANYTHING TOGETHER. OR HOW THE TREE'S KNOW HOW TO GROW AND NATURE KNOWS HOW TO WATER IT AND WHEN WE GROW A CHILD IN OUR BODY, HOW DOES OUR BODY KNOW JUST HOW MUCH MILK TO MAKE FOR THAT BABY I COULD GO ON AND ON. YOU SEEM LIKE A VERY KIND PERSON BUT I HAVE SEEN THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T IMAGINE AND I GUESS YOUR SAYING THAT YOU WANT PROOF AND WE CAN'T GIVE THAT TO YOU. SEE THE BIBLE SAYS WE MUST WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION WITH CONVICTION. I AM GOING TO PRAY EVERYDAY THAT GOD HIMSELF WILL SHOW YOU PROOF. LOVE TO YA

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The CapsLock key is just above the left Shift key. You can thank me later.

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

I KNOW THE DAY WILL COME WHEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD and no amount of other gods or beliefs can make that fact go away. if you have children why would you want to chance teaching them this. if the time comes and Gods not there(ha!ha!)then you will have lost nothing. but if he is may he have mercy on them i pray. love to all

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I know one thing I will instill in my kids - to respect other people's beliefs and not go around screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, that's just rude.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The CapsLock key is just above the left Shift key. You can thank me later.

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THE ESC KEY IS TOP LEFT, NO NEED FOR THANKS

Smart A$$??

Take it the way you want to take it. I could say the same for many in this room.

I really love your comment about Einstein, honestly its quite profound. What else could he say? Are you suggesting he said that out of fear of looking foolish?? Please prove that to me... lol!

You sit there and ask for proof but you rebuke points based on that!!

I think this thread is just about finished, it has long since ceased to be an informative, intellectual debate.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

I know one thing I will instill in my kids - to respect other people's beliefs and not go around screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, that's just rude.

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How is it rude to be concerned for people? Look at other comments saying that there is no god. Your talking about my friend. If you believe something and entertain the fact that it is not real then you really don't know for sure if you believe and i know. My opinion is as valuable as any one else's, i'm just not one to say well duh maybe you're right or maybe i'm right. I don't know.

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

I know one thing I will instill in my kids - to respect other people's beliefs and not go around screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, that's just rude.

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Right on Jillian!!

I am involved in another thread with Jenny where she is claiming to be doing things out of love when, in fact, she is promoting her own agenda without regard for someone else's beliefs. In the post you responded to, she yells that Jesus is the Lord and nothing will make that fact go away. But anyone who holds that that is a fact is clearly closed minded and has no respect for anyone who doesn't see things her way. That Jesus is the Lord is a matter of FAITH, not fact.

If she wants to hold onto that faith and if it comforts her, then more power to her. But when she tries to tell others not to take a chance that her beliefs are the only rights ones, she goes way over the top.

BMI, I'm not sure why you place so much emphasis on historical figures or other highly intelligent people believing in god. Are you saying we should just bow to the "smarties" and stop thinking for ourselves? Have you considered that for many of these figures, rejecting the existence of god would have been social suicide? You say Einstein didn't look for "proof" of god, he just believed; well, whoopidty doo for him! :) I like a little more evidence for my beliefs, and it doesn't make me wrong.

I think perspective can be found in reading about other people's beliefs, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree. One of the reasons I participate on this site and in these threads is because I'm trying to get a better understanding of the religious perspective. I'm of the opinion that people are either born with faith or they aren't; being someone who wasn't, it's interesting to me to discuss things with people who were. There are some people on this site who are very tolerant of others, who express their view, but don't argue and fight with someone with an opposing view. Then there are those who insist they are right and argue with people of opposing views and do nothing but push others away.

You Have No Idea What You Are Talking About. You Seem To Be Making This About You And What You Believe Other People Should And Shouldn't Say, And That Is Simply Not Right. You Should Voice Your Opinion And Let Me Voice Mine And At Some Point Grow Up

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Originally Posted by BMI

Smart A$$??????

Take it the way you wanna take it. I could say the same for many in this room.

I really love your comment about Einstein, honestly its quite profound. What else could he say? Are you suggesting he said that out of fear of looking foolish????? Please proove that to me......lol!

You sit there and ask for proof but you rebuke points based on that!!!!!!!!

I think this thread is just about finished, it has long since ceased to be an informative, intellectual debate.

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Yes, I probably won't be checking in too much either.

Please, I am not Ms. Sweeter then Sugar - or Ms. Patty Perfect. I promise you, I know
I am far from it, and sharing what's in my heart with all of you really does help, and I thank you for letting me share.

But I can get my curls in a knot as well :) - I don't like it but I do.

Anyway, when I said I love you all I meant it and it saddens me to no end sometimes when we can't hear each other.

I will point out - that those of you who do believe in God, embrace that and embrace others whether they believe in God or not. And it's not okay to be unkind or to have a sharp tongue. Ever - even under the guise of attempting to share God's love, because having a sharp tongue and letting your human side out, is not spreading God's love.

As I said, I can get my tail in the air too, and don't even resemble being perfect, so call me on it when you see it.

For those of you who do believe in God, remember a sin... is a sin... is a sin... and all hurt Our Father, and I think judging our brother's and sisters or putting ourselves above anyone, may hurt Him the very most.

Okay over and out :)
When I said I love you all earlier I really did mean it.

Comment Not To Jillian But To Scott

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

HOW IS IT RUDE TO BE CONCERNED FOR PEOPLE? LOOK AT OTHER COMMENTS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. YOUR TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND. IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING AND ENTERTAIN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT REAL THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU BELIEVE AND I KNOW. MY OPINION IS AS VALUEABLE AS ANY ONE ELSES, I'M JUST NOT ONE TO SAY WELL DUH MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT OR MAYBE I'M RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

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First it is rude to type in ALL Caps, that's yelling at people. Second, it is rude to be "concerned for people" when they have not asked for or shown no interest in your concern. Third, its perfectly possible to respect someone's right to believe what they want without doubting your own beliefs. Its easy to say; "well I beleive this way... " rather then; "you're wrong, my belief is the only one". The latter is rude.

What's worse here is your holier than thou attitude has the opposite effect of what you want. It turns people off and shuts off your message.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

You Have No Idea What You Are Talking About. You Seem To Be Making This About You And What You Believe Other People Should And Shouldn't Say, And That Is Simply Not Right. You Should Voice Your Opinion And Let Me Voice Mine And At Some Point Grow Up

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Is this the comment you said was to me? If so, you clearly are not reading what I've been saying. But that's not surprising, you refuse to accept any viewpoint other than your own. Instead of just expressing your view you have to attack other people's views. Its not in WHAT you say, but how you say it.

And I'm very grown up, by the way, you should try it sometime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

HOW IS IT RUDE TO BE CONCERNED FOR PEOPLE? LOOK AT OTHER COMMENTS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. YOUR TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND. IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING AND ENTERTAIN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT REAL THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU BELIEVE AND I KNOW. MY OPINION IS AS VALUEABLE AS ANY ONE ELSES, I'M JUST NOT ONE TO SAY WELL DUH MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT OR MAYBE I'M RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

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jenny, there is a difference between being concerned for others and screaming at others, insisting you are right and they are wrong. I don't see any atheists doing this:

THE TIME WILL COME WHEN ALL RELIGIOUS WHACKOS REALIZE THEY ARE WRONG AND THEY HAVE WASTED THEIR LIFE PRAYING TO AN INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY!! THEY WILL HAVE WASTED THE ONE LIFE THEY HAD ON THIS EARTH FILLED WITH HATE FOR OTHERS AND FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE, BECAUSE IN THE END, THEY WILL ROT IN THE GROUND LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!! NO PEARLY GATES, NO Fiery PITS OF HELL FOR THE BAD GUYS!! JUST ROTTING IN THE GROUND!! WAKE UP, PEOPLE!! YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!!

Was that rude? I'm just concerned for other people; I don't want to see you spend your life worshipping something that isn't there when you can accomplish much more and be a better person by accepting there is no god! I'm just trying to help!

And yes, your opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's, and is welcomed. But there are ways to express your opinion without being quite as rude as you have been. You also need to learn that you can respect someone else's opinion without agreeing with it. For example: you believe in god. I don't. But I respect your opinion. See? That's wasn't so hard.

PS: Turn the CAPS key off - people will instantly become more receptive to what you have to say.

I can't believe, having missed the start of this post, I read this whole thing. I have never cared who believed what, or the reasons behind it. I stay away from organised religion, but have come to believe that a personal relationship with the God that I understand, needed no church with a lot of people in it so that's the way I live. I can offer no proof that God exists, at least none you could understand, and no proof based in fact, that he works in my life. But being a dumb human, I can understand, why we fall for the TRUTH, as put by others, and follow blindly to the point of being sheep for the shepherds who they follow with no questions asked. I can see where the suffering of others can be evidence, of there being no God. I can see through suffering, why you can be angry at God. That's humans for you. Blame God for not doing what we should be doing. That's easy, and leaves us humans blameless for our shortcomings. The God I understand gives us life and choices, the rest is up to us, what we do with free will, and it doesn't matter whether you believe in God or not, not one bit. What does matter is how you spend this short time on earth, and how you live your life. The rest is as personal as what kind of deodorant you use, as that is choice also. The truth is we don't know, none of us, and we believe what we believe. Not a big deal until you start telling me what I should believe, and dare to try and change me. That's why I just recognise the good in people, and if I can't, I just leave them alone to whatever choice they make. I have no proof that I'm right, but I have no proof your wrong either, so I hope you enjoy your choice as I do mine. But I must admit this relatively quiet, and thoughtful post, is a refreshing change from some of the other "organised ones", and is a great read.

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

Awwwww poor Allheart... :)

Hi Jillean,

I do place empahsis on certain historical figures in whom I happen to agree with, I think what they have said is very relevant to the original question. Also, if one posts video's and website information to support their belief than so too shall I. Greg says so and so said this, I say so and so said this. I do not like the argument that many did it because of "social suicide", I could say they made the video up for money, I could say something about all of the points refuting the existence of God. It's great you have your beleifs and I do agree with your take on independent thinking, however, my historical references were in relation to perspective and to be viewed as a counter argument against many points within this thread.

I will sincerily apologize to anyone here that I may have offended or sounded smart with, was and is not my intention, sorry Greg. These religious posts always end up the same, although perhaps I contribute to that outcome:)