Quote:

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Originally Posted by CravenMorhead

Smoothy, I respect you a lot. I know who you are and what you have been through. It is because of that I want to say to nut up and get over it. CaCa happens and you think the faith did it. It didn't. People did it. A organization who was using gurellia tactics to kill as many people as possible. The reasoning they used was from a book and only that. It is asinine to assume that a faith did this. You might not be a bigger person but you're a wiser person. You know better.

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Fact is THEY haven't gotten over anything for 1,600 years and the oppression they practice against this world continues to this very day.

If it was a one time event or was even limited in scope to several in the past that would be different... the fact is it continues on every continent on earth and even here in the USA... ( and it does happen far more often that you will ever see on a biased media).

If you ignore an ongoing threat... don't be surprised when that threat becomes a reality.

If there were no threats...then why exactly do we have a Dept of Homeland security. We didn't need one before.

I actually do know the answer to that...I wonder how many other people do too.

I'd rather be alive and safe than politically correct.

Fact is MANY Muslims are as paranoid about the radical nut jobs as you are, and with good reason since in fact they have killed, and oppressed more of their own than they have others.

They are NUTS and so are their sheep followers. It's sad my friend, that as your friend you allow them to make you so paranoid, which is their whole strategy to begin with. At least with you they have WON! A man of your intellect and experience should know that, so why do you feed your own hate and fear?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Fact is MANY Muslims are as paranoid about the radical nut jobs as you are, and with good reason since in fact they have killed, and oppressed more of their own than they have others.

They are NUTS and so are their sheep followers. It's sad my friend, that as your friend you allow them to make you so paranoid, which is their whole strategy to begin with. At least with you they have WON! A man of your intellect and experience should know that, so why do you feed your own hate and fear?

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Its not paranoia when they actually ARE out to get you... and they have openly said this ad nauseum. If you had any idea how many terrorist plots the government has discovered and stopped before they could be carried out you would see my point. One out of every 50 actually are reported on the news. Its far more common than most people know.

They don't make me paranoid... they give me reason to not trust their words on motives in general as a group. Which means they aren't flying under the radar for those smart enough to be watching. And they ARE on the Radar for the Government. Does that make them paranoid too?

Tell that to the Coptic Christians, the Jews and every other religious group on earth that are being systematically persecuted and singled out by the Muslims on the planet that they are just being paranoid too.

Muslims aren't the victim class....they are the perpetrators. They have managed to dupe a lot of people.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Its not paranoia when they actually ARE out to get you... and they have openly said this ad nauseum. If you had any idea how many terrorist plots the government has discovered and stopped before they could be carried out you would see my point. One out of every 50 actually are reported on the news. Its far more common than most people know.

They don't make me paranoid... they give me reason to not trust their words on motives in general as a group. Which means they aren't flying under the radar for those smart enough to be watching. And they ARE on the Radar for the Government. Does that make them paranoid too?

Muslims aren't the victim class....they are the perpetrators. They have managed to dupe a lot of people.

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I'm sorry, but I can't abide painting an entire group with the same brush. This is what you are doing. I'm in total agreement with you that a large number of Muslims are Islamic extremists bent on having things their own way and to them any infidel life is of no consequence. No one is arguing that point.

But that doesn't mean that every Muslim feels that way. It doesn't mean that every Muslim is hell bent of ridding the world of the infidels. You can't damn and entire religion because of the actions of extremist factions.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

From what I can find in a quick search, there are more than a half million Muslims in this area. A Muslim school is a few blocks from me, and a pre-K thru gr. 12 school and prayer center (non-profit Islamic Foundation, since 1974) is in the suburb east of me. Many Muslim professionals live in nearby Oak Brook, McDonald's and Beanie Baby world headquarters.

You might find this list interesting -- Chicago Mosques

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You might find this interesting.


EEOC wins $240,000 damages for Muslim truckers fired for not delivering beer




http://pamelageller.com/2015/10/illi...-alcohol.html/

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I'm sorry, but I can't abide painting an entire group with the same brush. This is what you are doing. I'm in total agreement with you that a large number of Muslims are Islamic extremists bent on having things their own way and to them any infidel life is of no consequence. No one is arguing that point.

But that doesn't mean that every Muslim feels that way. It doesn't mean that every Muslim is hell bent of ridding the world of the infidels. You can't damn and entire religion because of the actions of extremist factions.

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I can understand his position because of what the community is NOT doing. You dont seem to hear the outcry from the community over the attrocities. What you hear is a give me more attitude. Many left the places they were in because of oppression and to attempt to live in peace. But they are starting the cycle all over again.

Just look at the news and some of the headlines as to how much leeway they are being given as a group that put them in a protected class of citizen.

Oklahoma Police Captain Sues Police Department over Forced Mosque Attendance | Pamela Geller


Is this what the new American way has come to? The lawsuit lottery ?

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Originally Posted by cdad

You might find this interesting.


EEOC wins $240,000 damages for Muslim truckers fired for not delivering beer




Illinois: Two Muslim truck drivers awarded $240,000 for refusing to deliver alcohol | Pamela Geller

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That was Downstate, 100 miles away or so, maybe more.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

I'm sorry, but I can't abide painting an entire group with the same brush. This is what you are doing. I'm in total agreement with you that a large number of Muslims are Islamic extremists bent on having things their own way and to them any infidel life is of no consequence. No one is arguing that point.

But that doesn't mean that every Muslim feels that way. It doesn't mean that every Muslim is hell bent of ridding the world of the infidels. You can't damn and entire religion because of the actions of extremist factions.

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Spend enough time around the organizations as I have the last 34 years... and you learn to NEVER ignore a threat from any group that has a significant enough amount of people bent on murder and mass destruction.

Would you be as forgiving of the White supremacist movement for example, or Biker gangs. The same arguments can be made for them. Every one of them aren't bad people with evil intent either... but what does that change, nothing, because there are enough that are. Or pick any other number of groups that has an above average number of troublemakers in them.

How many Jews do Muslim charities aid every year? How many Buddhists? How many Christians? Its actually prohibited to aid non-Muslims. Real nice bunch.

Like I said... we aren't talking dozens or even hundreds... we are talking millions. And millions is a significant threat no matter WHAT group they are part of.

And I'll trust the findings of Government agencies that are tasked with keeping us safe rather than any other propaganda from unknown or unproven sources.

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am... I have plenty of justification. I have plenty of facts to back it up.

I'm not trying to convince you otherwise... so kindly don't try and change how I think. Its going to go no place and will only get both of us upset.

Spend most of your adult life working around where I have... you would think differently about a lot of things as well.

Nowhere did I say EVERY Muslim feels that way. Those were your words.

"Once you are dead it doesn't matter, while you are alive Open your Eyes and Ears".

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Would you be as forgiving of the White supremacist movement for example, or Biker gangs. .

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That is actually a good example. No I wouldn't be forgiving of White supremacists because their whole credo is racist. On the other hand there are some biker "gangs" that actually do a lot of good work. So I would be disinclined to condemn all biker gangs.

I'm not sure if I'm getting through here. Again, no one denies that islamic extremist are a danger to the world. No one denies that they need to be watched (even spied on). But you can't condemn all who follow the Muslim faith because of the actions of extremists just as you can't condemn all biker gangs because some (even many) are lawless.

If that's not what you are doing, then I'm sorry, but that's not the message I am getting from your posts in this thread.

I actually know a few self proclaimed white Supremacists... one was even once a Imperial Wizard (known him my whole life in fact)... and none of them are the monsters the propaganda make them to be. And I'd known enough Bikers... ( and by that I mean 1%ers in clubs people associate with Bikers) and spent enough time around them to know that THEY aren't the monsters the media make them out to be. Well except for a few clubs that really are. And like I said.. these were the ones that have the reputation. Can say the same about the Mafia too (knew a couple Dons , they are both dead now and their families for decades).

You will find similar crimes or worse being committed in most inner city housing projects... Yet they aren't demonized by the press as universally.

And when you have MILLIONS in any specific group sympathizing or even actively being the radical element. You don't ignore any of them... because as was mentioned by others... you don't see very much outrage in their communities because they would rather protect their own... and that makes them accomplices. Just as it does anyone else that knows of crimes and remains silent.

Yeah... I didn't have a sheltered and charmed life in my early adulthood. I even had offerings by people high enough level to participate in certain "activities" made famous in "Miami Vice" that despite the lure of seriously big money at a time I desperately needed... common sense and my moral compass prevailed and made me take the hard path, and no I don't regret it.

And before you say it....the distaste and apathy towards other religions taught and practiced by the Muslims...is no different than what is preached by the Klan, Louis Farrakhan, La Raza, the Muslim Brotherhood or a number of other groups.

Just that some are embraced by the Political correctness people which makes them no different.

And my rather large circle of friends is probably MORE diverse than most peoples is. Some of them Muslims that have actually earned my trust over the years I've known them (Afghan, Iranian, Pakistani, Somali, Eritrea and a couple others) ...and no what I went through is no secret to them. Nor my feelings towards people that sympathize with that element. Do they have my absolute trust? Nope....but then nobody but my immediate family has that.

Out of more than a billion Muslims, you let a million influence you? Your math is lousy.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Out of more than a billion Muslims, you let a million influence you? Your math is lousy.

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My Math is damn good... How many did it take for 9/11, Fort Hood, ETC.

You might live in some remote place that is the last place that would be a target...but many of us live or work in and around prime targets...or at least within the blast zone.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

My Math is damn good... How many did it take for 9/11, Fort Hood, ETC.

You might live in some remote place that is the last place that would be a target...but many of us live or work in and around prime targets...or at least within the blast zone.

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I live in a prime blast zone and am not at all worried. Like I said, the ones around here have library cards -- and are often second- and third-generation Muslims.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I live in a prime blast zone and am not at all worried. Like I said, the ones around here have library cards -- and are often second- and third-generation Muslims.

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And if you watch the news... and follow government security alerts... you also know that education or being born here is not a deterrent to being radicalized as many have done it and went to kill people. Many have been caught trying here and abroad... ALL should be jailed and have their citizenship revoked for it.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

And if you watch the news... and follow government security alerts... you also know that education or being born here is not a deterrent to being radicalized as many have done it and went to kill people. Many have been caught trying here and abroad... ALL should be jailed and have their citizenship revoked for it.

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But they're given library cards and sent on their way?

?? Yes a library card is some circles is a proof of orthodoxy or is it citizenship and what were they reading at the library, how to build a bomb?

R

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Originally Posted by paraclete

?? Yes a library card is some circles is a proof of orthodoxy or is it citizenship and what were they reading at the library, how to build a bomb?

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Library employees cannot give patron information to law enforcement (or anyone else) without a court order.

Worries me some, that smoothy and I traveled in some of the same circles. When I was in South Carolina, I was friends with many of the KKK (they had a regional headquarters there) Many of my fellow workers belonged.

And as noted, from the ones I knew, they were not as evil as I see presented and never burned a cross in my yard, (although they did on their own property during organized protests.) (still not sure why a cross)

As smoothy in my time in Arizona, I need some of the Bikers, and was at some of their bars a few times. Did not prefer, their life style, but normally they were not as bad as depicted. (of course a few were)

And I knew some of the mafia, knew the head from New Jersey and sat at the table with many of the family members at one time.

I knew many mercenaries, from my days in SE Asia and South America, and while yes, some may be worst, than thought of, most were just ex soldiers looking for money

Here in China, I know 100's of Muslims, My best friend in Zhengzhou is Muslim. I shop at Muslim shops every day, eat at Muslim stores every week.
But I am still scared of them every day.

I was less than 10 feet from a suicide bomber, last year in Dali, where the police got him before he caught without setting off his bomb. Every month or two, I walk though the train station, where 3 years ago, Muslim terrorist, killed several people in an attack there. I visit locations and cities, that have several attacks each year.

So, it is easy not to be scared or concerned, when you live in a place where nothing is currently happening. But if a library was bombed once month, someone in North America, would you feel safe today?

There are no safe places in the world, and while some are safer than others, good people can fear bad things happening to them, and bad things do indeed happen to good people. Many Muslim I know are just as afraid as anyone else of getting caught up in bad things from bad people.

It's not Muslims burning black churches, or shooting up classrooms, and if you can understand bikers, and criminals, then understand your fellow human who happens to be Muslim. To elevate one over another is illogical, and a product of FEAR bringing out the prejudice in us.

There are Magnitudes MORE muslims creating havoc and murdering people in the world... than there are Burning Black churches... in fact... when was the last black church burned? How many of them have been burned in the last 20 years, last 50 years... how many Christan churches have been burned by Muslims in just the last 5 years, in just Egypt (without factoring in ANY other countries into the total).. you come up with far more than Back churches that were EVER burned in total.

Right in YOUR back yard

Inside Virginia's Church-Burning Werewolf White Supremacist Cult - The Daily Beast

Fires in Black Churches, Possibly Caused by Arson, in Ohio, Georgia, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Florida - The Atlantic

Of course they are never referred to as Christian terrorists, and maybe they are "NICE" guys to meet (when they aren't behaving badly) and hangout with, so rationalizing your fear of Muslims is illogical and again you have no problem ignoring FACTS to support your very narrow view.

Church has an electrical fire or heating system malfunction and its automatically white people doing it? Please...

How about YOU moving someplace important where Muslims have and say they are targeting again? Might change your perspective somewhat.

Your complete and utter devotion to defending the Religion of Global terrorism is astounding.

Sorry but I'm call Bull on your claim that my VERY rational reason for not trusting them isn't based on actual facts...and history.

Go tell someone in the inner city who is and has been targeted by gang members in the past their fear and distrust of them is irrational....because it is NO different.

I actually lived my FACTS....you get them from some biased media source of questionable accuracy and motives. And the media is far from reliable OR trustworthy....and hasn't been for decades.

Until you escape a terrorist attack and or see the results of one, up close and personal. Seen the dead bodies smell the smells associated with burned corpses...

Then you can come back and discuss that on a level playing field and common ground. Because until you have....you really can't see it through the eyes of someone who has.

Muslims are terrorizing you in your town? Prove it. For the record there is absolutely no difference between a Jew, Christian, or Muslim.............NONE! NADA!!!

Live in all the fear you want to. You are certainly ENTITLED to that! For all your so called experience, your perception of reality is colored by your own hate and I am grateful NOT to see the world through your eyes.

For all your experience you have yet to find the best use of it beyond the usual rant that accompanies a lack of courage. Certainly your rants in this forum surpasses the point of sheer LUNACY.

*COURAGE - Positive Action Despite Fear.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Muslims are terrorizing you in your town? Prove it. For the record there is absolutely no difference between a Jew, Christian, or Muslim.............NONE! NADA!!!

Live in all the fear you want to. You are certainly ENTITLED to that! For all your so called experience, your perception of reality is colored by your own hate and I am grateful NOT to see the world through your eyes.

For all your experience you have yet to find the best use of it beyond the usual rant that accompanies a lack of courage. Certainly your rants in this forum surpasses the point of sheer LUNACY.

*COURAGE - Positive Action Despite Fear.

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Maybe not where you live... there is a HUGE difference between them in the rest of the world. Only one group is bent on killing everyone else purely because of religion.

And its not the Buddhists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

It's not Muslims burning black churches, or shooting up classrooms, and if you can understand bikers, and criminals, then understand your fellow human who happens to be Muslim. To elevate one over another is illogical, and a product of FEAR bringing out the prejudice in us.

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Tell me Tal what do we do with the outlaw biker who is also a Muslim? You want to distinguish between one sort of hate crime and another so you can say so and so doesn't do that. The truth is tal, those with extremist leanings are capable of any act, Muslims kill children just as readily as they kill anyone else, the only question they will ask is what do you believe? Wasn't some waco asking if you were christian and killing over there? Whereas a biker will not be concerned with what you believe. A white supremist will be concerned about the colour of your skin and a KKK is of similar persuasion. What I am concerned aBout is lawlessness fed by ridiculous beliefs, and elimination of this should be out chief goal, starting with a militant religion that wants to impose itsself upon us. A religion that doesn't entertain the answer; no, without consequence


Obviously you have not been in the middle east or other places. Muslims burn churches and kill christians. Ask a Nigerian whether Muslims burn churches, or a Pakistani. You live in a safe place and can snipe from the sidelines, but the place isn't safe from extremists, no place is. Stop defending the indefensible

LOL Clete, you live in an equally safe place but you snipe from the sidelines too.

Clete.. what we have here is political correctness run amok.

If a white person commits a crime against a Muslim, Black, gay or Transgender... its automatically called a hate crime. But a black, gay or Transgender (or pick any other group) can walk into a place spewing slurs... or spewing Allah Ackkkkkk(with copious amounts of phlegm) bar...does it against a white or group of whites

And its NEVER considered a hate crime

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Clete.. what we have here is political correctness run amok.

If a white person commits a crime against a Muslim, Black, gay or Transgender... its automatically called a hate crime. But a black, gay or Transgender (or pick any other group) can walk into a place spewing slurs... or spewing Allah Ackkkkkk(with copious amounts of phlegm) bar...does it against a white or group of whites

And its NEVER considered a hate crime

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Of course you know the difference between committing a crime and spewing slurs right?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Of course you know the difference between committing a crime and spewing slurs right?

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When a White person does BOTH... its automatically a hate crime... when a black, Muslim, or Hispanic ( or fill in the blank for a non-white or non christian) does it... its never a hate crime.

Fort Hood....HE did it..its neither a hate crime OR terrorism because Obama decreed it wouldn't be....and there are dozens of other examples every day.

Black gang kills or robs a white person while spewing anti white racial epithets....he was a simple victim of crime.

Let a group of white people commit a crime against a black or (fill in the blank) the DOJ gets involved and Hate crime charges are automatically made.

Lots of examples of that...several where it turned out the crime never even occured....after ruining the lives of the involved. But no hate crime charge against the person making the charges over and above filing a false report.

Remember the duke Lacrosse incident WHITE players accused of rape by a black girl. Made national news....before the entire thing was proven false....did the guys dragged through the mud ever get compensation....nope...they were white.
Was SHE ever accused or charged with a hate crime? Nope
And Obamas DOJ felt they deserved it anyway...because they must have had some evil thoughts some point in their life.

Yet...Black felon...LONG rap sheet results in hood rats rioting in Balitmore....they get paid millions. Then the idiots in Ferguson....same deal.

If it was a white person....they would never have seen a dime. Or got more than an oops , sorry IF they got that much.

Has there EVER been a single black person charge with a hate crime say...the last 7 years anyplace in the USA when their victims were not black.

Doubt it....but the news is filled when its the opposite situation.

Nothing fair..or equal when it comes to hate crime charges. Its nearly ALWAYS targeted exclusively at the whites. And rarely if ever applied to any other group even in identical situations.

Smoothy - Your complete and utter devotion to the KKK is astounding.

He has some points,

A Black church in Atlanta, (Church of the Black Madonna) teaches that all white people are satan, any black person that has dealings with a white person is a traitor to their race. The real black Jesus will come and save all true blacks from the evil white people. And black people have an obligation to destroy the white oppressor.

Change the words white and black, and let a white person try to open a church like that, beyond making it someone of a nation wide church.

That white person would have the church closed, the IRS investigating, and most likey be in jail or at least with several federal law suits

Why is it such a surprise that after a long sordid history of oppression, suppression and cruelty, in America that those that have and still suffer would NOT like the "white man" (Specifically Christians on Sunday, but wear hoods and burn crosses the rest of the week) and his ways?

Well you wanted everyone to be assimilated into American society, so don't holler when they assimilate the bad parts too.

And this is why Religion is dangerous... Smoothy is three steps away from suggesting religious genocide because they started it first.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Smoothy - Your complete and utter devotion to the KKK is astounding.

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You apparently are brain damaged or on drugs... because you pulled that out of your rectal orifice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by talaniman

Why is it such a surprise that after a long sordid history of oppression, suppression and cruelty, in America that those that have and still suffer would NOT like the "white man" (Specifically Christians on Sunday, but wear hoods and burn crosses the rest of the week) and his ways?

Well you wanted everyone to be assimilated into American society, so don't holler when they assimilate the bad parts too.

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And that makes them the racists... not the average White person.

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Originally Posted by CravenMorhead

And this is why Religion is dangerous... Smoothy is three steps away from suggesting religious genocide because they started it first.

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Time to put the bottle down.

Its pretty obvious here that the Liberals are the ones who are the ones with the racist tendencies because they have said and done EVERYTHING to push the agenda that the white man is inferior and isn't entitled to the same standards that are applied to everyone else.

When was the LAST black person charged with an actual hate crime despite racist rants prior to the crime? Never saw one on the news. Yes there have been MULTIPLE cases where whites have been charged with hate crimes JUST because their victims were not white... and many cases when they were falsely accused of crimes even though no credible evidence ever existed but one persons word. (As one example of many... the Duke Lacrosse incident)

Funny how the left REALLY doesn't want equality... they don't want the laws applied equally... which makes them the real racists.

Nowhere in any law is it written... (......unless you are "pick a gender, special interest or ethinic group")

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Originally Posted by smoothy

You apparently are brain damaged or on drugs..

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Time to put the bottle down.

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This is what we see as a typical christian. Not sure how that helps the cause.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This is what we see as a typical christian. Not sure how that helps the cause.

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Get stuffed... what it shows is typical self righteous Aetheists that feel they can bash anyone who is not an atheist without reprisal.

Another case... Two black cops shoot and kill a white CHILD on purpose... they are charged with murder but NOT a hate crime.

2 officers arrested in fatal shooting of 6-year-old boy in Marksville | New Orleans - WDSU Home

If it was White cops...and a black kid...it would automatically become a hate crime

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what it shows is typical self righteous Aetheists that feel they can bash anyone who is not an atheist without reprisal.

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Where did I bash you?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Where did I bash you?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

This is what we see as a typical christian. Not sure how that helps the cause.

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Read your quoted post.