Ask Me Help Desk - If you saw Jesus work miracles would you believe?

Is the thread/question intended for all users of AMHD?

NeedKarma,
So what is AMHD?
Fred

Ask Me Help Desk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Apparently many folks in some towns did not.
The seeds were plentifully sown but the harvest was meager.
See here.
Today's Gospel (Lk 10:13-16): Jesus said, «Alas for you Chorazin! Alas for you Bethsaida! So many miracles have been worked in you! If the same miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would already be sitting in ashes and wearing the sackcloth of repentance. Surely for Tyre and Sidon it will be better than for you on the Judgment Day. And what of you, city of Capernaum? Will you be lifted up to heaven? You will be thrown down to the place of the dead. Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects the one who sent me».
So IF you saw Jesus perform miracles would you believe?
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

The above scripture may as well be Chinese for the amount of sense it makes to me, so I thought I would add another translation since this thread seems to be going nowhere fast... :D

Luke 10:13-16 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)
Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson

13-14"Doom, Chorazin! Doom, Bethsaida! If Tyre and Sidon had been given half the chances given you, they'd have been on their knees long ago, repenting and crying for mercy. Tyre and Sidon will have it easy on Judgment Day compared to you.

15"And you, Capernaum! Do you think you're about to be promoted to heaven? Think again. You're on a mudslide to hell.

16"The one who listens to you, listens to me. The one who rejects you, rejects me. And rejecting me is the same as rejecting God, who sent me."

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealb

That isn't what you said if it was you wouldn't be a hypocrite what you said what that our minds were made up and nothing would change our minds, as if you had an open mind.

That is where you err. I have NEVER said I have an open mind, at least on this subject.

Is that better?

Yes but it is the open mind that would have made you not a hypocrite.
Matthew 7:5
5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Choux,
BUT.....
If you saw Jesus working miracles would you believe?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I didn't see Jesus working miracles but there is no doubt in my mind that he did.

I also believe that GOD works miracles every day.

I have seen Jesus work miracles and I do believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

That is where you err. I have NEVER said I have an open mind, at least on this subject.

That addition was completely unnecessary ! Indeed you never said that. Nor have you.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

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Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

Apparently many folks in some towns did not.
The seeds were plentifully sown but the harvest was meager.
See here.
Today's Gospel (Lk 10:13-16): Jesus said, «Alas for you Chorazin! Alas for you Bethsaida! So many miracles have been worked in you! If the same miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would already be sitting in ashes and wearing the sackcloth of repentance. Surely for Tyre and Sidon it will be better than for you on the Judgment Day. And what of you, city of Capernaum? Will you be lifted up to heaven? You will be thrown down to the place of the dead. Whoever listens to you listens to me, and whoever rejects you rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects the one who sent me».
So IF you saw Jesus perform miracles would you believe?
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred (arcura)

Fred,

I have faith and I would believe because of that faith. It doesn't matter if Jesus stood before people today and raised a man from the dead. Some would walk away unbelieving just like they did when he raised Lazarus. Why? Because it takes FAITH. It is no different today. We have the written WORD of God which is so utterly awesome I am really without words to describe it. The Lord placed his WORD before his NAME. I can pick up the Word... read what HE says is going to take place in the future and watch it come to pass pretty much before my eyes. How awesome is THAT! But many people shake their heads and laugh.
This is why I don't try to prove anything. I KNOW THAT I KNOW and I will share it. But ultimately it takes faith to come to God or believe in miracles.

Fred : David Copperfield made an entire Jet airplane disappear on stage, life, with a huge public present - LINK.
Do I BELIEVE that he really made that airplane disappear? Of course not. It was an illusion trick. Not a miracle.

If you saw Jesus work miracles would you believe?
As in David Copperfield's case : what is a miracle? Is it a miracle or an illusion ?

Your question first has to be more specific : what do you qualify as miracle ?
And further : if one does not see a logical explanation for something happening, is that a valid case of miracle?

Next to that : and even if there was a miracle : why that specific conclusion ? Why would one conclude a supra-natural entity to exist for having viewed one or more miracles ?

You BELIEVE in "God" or you don't. I don't think it is related to illusions or "miracles", but much more to a sense of longing to exist beyond the grave and the hope to see again all those lost love-ones.

:)

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ClassyT,
Thanks much.
Yes It does take faith to believe as a Christian.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Fred : David Copperfield made an entire Jet airplane disappear on stage, life, with a huge public present - LINK.
Do I BELIEVE that he really made that airplane disappear? Of course not. It was an illusion trick. Not a miracle.

If you saw Jesus work miracles would you believe?
As in David Copperfield's case : what is a miracle? Is it a miracle or an illusion ?

Your question first has to be more specific : what do you qualify as miracle ?
And further : if one does not see a logical explanation for something happening, is that a valid case of miracle?

Next to that : and even if there was a miracle : why that specific conclusion ? Why would one conclude a supra-natural entity to exist for having viewed one or more miracles ?

You BELIEVE in "God" or you don't. I don't think it is related to illusions or "miracles", but much more to a sense of longing to exist beyond the grave and the hope to see again all those lost love-ones.

:)

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.

Perhaps a miracle has something 'good' for its occurrence, not just to amaze people, but a true reason behind it. :rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Fred : David Copperfield made an entire Jet airplane disappear on stage, life, with a huge public present - LINK.
Do I BELIEVE that he really made that airplane disappear? Of course not. It was an illusion trick. Not a miracle.

If you saw Jesus work miracles would you believe?
As in David Copperfield's case : what is a miracle? Is it a miracle or an illusion ?

Your question first has to be more specific : what do you qualify as miracle ?
And further : if one does not see a logical explanation for something happening, is that a valid case of miracle?

Next to that : and even if there was a miracle : why that specific conclusion ? Why would one conclude a supra-natural entity to exist for having viewed one or more miracles ?

You BELIEVE in "God" or you don't. I don't think it is related to illusions or "miracles", but much more to a sense of longing to exist beyond the grave and the hope to see again all those lost love-ones.

:)

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.

Well I believe that Fred asked if you saw JESUS perform a miracle would you believe? One would conclude a supra-natural entity because JESUS said he was GOD and one way he proved it was by performing miracles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown008

Perhaps a miracle has something 'good' for its occurence, not just to amaze people, but a true reason behind it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

Well i believe that Fred asked if you saw JESUS perform a miracle would you believe?

Perhaps... But how does one define properly what is a "miracle", and in such a way that it is VALID in respect to this topic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

One would conclude a supra-natural entity because JESUS said he was GOD and one way he proved it was by performing miracles.

That is what the Bible states. But did he, i.e. was that a VALID statement, or do you only BELIEVE that?

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

That addition was completely unnecessary ! Indeed you never said that. Nor have you.

:D :D :D :D :D :D

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Rave on Cred. I KNOW what I know.

BTW, how long has it been since you have had a new thought? Your posts seem like you might have a series of comments that you click on & post.

That's just my OPINION of course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

Rave on Cred. I KNOW what I know. BTW, how long has it been since you have had a new thought? Your posts seem like you might have a series of comments that you click on & post. That's just my OPINION of course.

Ahhh : you reacted to my post that referred to your post in which you stated :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galveston1

That is where you err. I have NEVER said I have an open mind, at least on this subject.

and to which I replied :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

That addition was completely unnecessary ! Indeed you never said that. Nor have you.

But that has nothing to do with miracles and belief!
Do you deny than that you stated that yourself?
Or do you suggest now that you have an open mind?
If anyone is raving here it certainly is not me...

:D :rolleyes: :p :) :rolleyes: :D

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Unknown008,
For all here I define what I mean by a miracle as it is something done for good that is done by super natural means. In other words not a trick and is unexplainable by any means including scientific.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

For all here I define what I mean by a miracle as it is something done for good that is done by super natural means. In other words not a trick and is unexplainable by any means including scientific.

Dear Fred, you have preset the question now so far that only theists - who already BELIEVE in deities - are asked if they would believe in Jesus if they would see how Jesus would perhaps operate when performing his "miracles".

But most theists already BELIEVE that, so why ask that than to them?
Should you not ask that to those who do NOT BELIEVE in deities and miracles??

:rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

Fred,

I have faith and i would believe because of that faith. It doesn't matter if Jesus stood before people today and raised a man from the dead. Some would walk away unbelieving just like they did when he raised Lazarus. Why? because it takes FAITH. It is no different today. We have the written WORD of God which is so utterly awesome I am really without words to describe it. The Lord placed his WORD before his NAME. I can pick up the Word...read what HE says is going to take place in the future and watch it come to pass pretty much before my eyes. How awesome is THAT! But many people shake their heads and laugh.
This is why I don't try to prove anything. I KNOW THAT I KNOW and I will share it. But ultimately it takes faith to come to God or believe in miracles.

Absolutely agree!

I believe the miracles that Jesus performed in the Bible, but TO ACTUALLY SEE JESUS PERFORM A MIRACLE! - wow, that would be awesome :D

On a lighter note, there miracles in sports [ 69' mets for example ] all the time - just not for the Chicago Cubs :(

Cred,
Believe it or not I ask question to get answers.
Whether you think that are worthwhile or not bothers me not at all.
I already know from years of past experience what your answers will be; at least one of about 2 dozen different ones you have constantly used over the last 6 ot 7 years.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

inthebox,
Yes indeed that would be awesome.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Dear Fred,

And I already know from years of past experience what your answers will be; at least the one you have constantly used over the last 6 to 7 years. An answer entirely based on BELIEF only!!

Peace and kindness to you too,

John

:)

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Cred,
I have thousands of different answers for I am not limited to badgering people about belief.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

No Fred : you don't.
All you have is your BELIEF and FAITH in the existence of "God".
And that is fine with me.

But that is not any valid support to elevate what you BELIEVE into the domain of reality...

Peace and kindness to you 2,

John

Cred, pleas don't wevenm try to tell me what I have of have not.
You have know idea,
You mind is closed to what I have.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

cred, pleas don't wevenm try to tell me what I have of have not.
You have know idea, You mind is closed to what I have. Fred

Dear Fred : you can CLAIM that, but it ain't correct, and you know that.
Indeed I do not know every little thought between your ears. And I never claimed I know that.
But I know that all are related to the main line, the unsupported claim of the existence of "God".

My mind is not closed to religious beliefs and ideas. I even respect such ideas and beliefs.
What I do not respect is the innerneed by some Christians to demand and insist that what they BELIEVE is "true" and factual, without ever being able to support their wild religious claims beyond the subjective level.

Those Christians who can respect my views on this can count on my full support towards their religious worldview (I actually support many RC activities and donate generously towards worthwhile projects). Those who don't still receive my respect for their religious views, but not for their wild religious claims and conclusions.

That, dear Fred, is why whatever "miracles" (read illusions, tricks) would be performed by whomever, it would have no influence on my worldview that - in view of the lack of even the slightest iota of OSE thereto - excludes supernatural entities , simply because they do not seem to exist.

Just as in the topic "Objective Suggested Evidence for the existence of "Objective Suggested Evidence for the existence of ", where I underline that for many non-believers to accept the existence of ", where I underline that for many non-believers to accept the existence of " ONLY Direct Objective Supported Evidence for the existence of that same "God" will do. Nothing else's. Not even illusions and (party) tricks , like performing "miracles"!!

Have a nice day, Fred!!

:)

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Cred,

The Question that Fred asked is if you saw JESUS perform miracles would you believe. You have answered. You wouldn't. Thank you for that. Now run along and be obnoxious somewhere else.

classyT,
Thanks much.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

Cred,
The Question that Fred asked is if you saw JESUS perform miracles would you believe. You have answered. You wouldn't. Thank you for that. Now run along and be obnoxious somewhere else.

There are no rules on the number of times you are allowed to reply in a topic.
Besides that : I won't run along anything, and I am only obnoxious in the eyes of the intolerant religious fundamentalists. People like you.

:D :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes:

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

There are no rules on the number of times you are allowed to reply in a topic.
Besides that : I won't run along anything, and I am only obnoxious in the eyes of the intolerant religious fundamentalists. People like you.

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Yeah, I know there are no rules to the number of times you can say the same thing over and over and over. IT's just that you bore us to tears.

Oh cred... I love it when you call me intolerant religious fundamentalist... how you do go on! ;)

Psst. You ARE obnoxious and others think so too... they just aren't as honest as me.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by classyT

... they just aren't as honest as me.

You and honest ? If that were true it would be a real miracle!! :D
Your claim on that Biology degree comes to mind : you can change the handle, but you're still the same person !

:D :D :D :D :D

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!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

michealb,
The obvious I spoke of was REAL miracles which could not be faked and have been proven so many, many times.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Such as? Be specific and be ready to back it up with first hand fact.

[QUOTE=arcura;1307077]michealb.
Sorry, I do not believe that all miracles could be faked.
If the are miracles they are not fake.
A fake diamond is a fake not a diamond. The same for so-called fake miracles.
I have seen miracles and know that they were not faked for I knew the people involved.
Some years ago there was a TV program called That's Incredible.
On it there were several miracles performed that were tested by doctors and scientists to verify that they were not faked.
On particular one was absolutely amazing.
A Catholic priest, Father D'Orio, said that it was the holy spirit that caused a man born with one leg shorted than the other to grow right there on camera in front of witnesses who knew the man and scientists who examined him
There are thousands of such cases.
Whether you believe them or not the record of them stands in many places around the world.
You are probably like those mentioned in the bible that did not believe.
I do believe what I saw and knew the people involved. They were not fakes.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)[/QUOTE

How do you know they were not fakes? A leg grew right there on camera in front of witnesses? With all these thousands of cases documented, why would we need doctors or hospitals. Why not just call one of these miracle performers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMI

The guy above just does not get it NO MATTER WHAT!

There are 3 of them, 2 more prevalent than the third but still. They participate in EVERY religious discussion trying to find fault with everything said. In truth, I'd wager nobody on these boards finds them insightful nor welcome for that matter in regards to religious discussion.

Sorry Arcura, I just think it wrong for these three to enter into every discussion whether it is about the existence of God or not.

Your statement is unfair. If you are so confident of your beliefs, you should have no problem defending it. Heck, you might even convert someone. I welcome their insight and I am a believer in god. I just don't fall for every religious freako out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by michealb

Why doesn't god heal all people then or at least all of his followers?

Surely the five year old dying of cancer who has done nothing wrong in their life is just as worthy of being healed as anyone else.

Why has god never healed an amputee?

I wonder the same thing. Why would God heal some and leave others to suffer and die?
Make it good. Not just another vague "we don't know Gods plan" cop out answer. I'm so fed up with empty answers.

Matt 13:58
58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
(KJV)

Matt 17:19-20
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
(KJV)

Unbelief keeps us from receiving the miracles that we need.

Rom 3:3
3 For what if some did not believe? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
(KJV)

Our unbelief does not change what God can and will do in response to unwavering faith.

Does this answer your question?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasParent

I don't know that I believe in God in any sort of traditional sense, but I like Jesus; not so much those that interpret him or the bible. In my life I have met and heard a great many Christian and one thing is for certain, not all of them interpret the bible in the same way.

However, being sort of a non-believer I am here to learn more in my quest with regard to my existence or help people examine their beliefs through the prism of my life experiences and what 'God' has revealed to me personally; if that makes sense to anyone...lol.

Note: I answered the original post about a page ago.

It makes perfect sense to me. I am so in agreement with you. However, I do believe in a personal god for me. But that does not stop me for wanting to know more and explore and examine others beliefs. And, I am too much of realist to fall for everything coming down the pike.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Texas Parent, I think we may have very similar beliefs.

I myself am a Deist;

Deism is the belief that a supreme God exists and created the physical universe, and that religious truths can be arrived at by the application of reason alone, without dependence on revelation. It is in contrast with fideism, found in many forms of Christianity[1], Islamic and Judaic teachings, which holds that religious truths rely upon revelation in sacred scriptures and upon the testimony of other people as well as reasoning.

Deists typically reject most supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God has a plan for the universe, which he does not alter by intervening in the affairs of human life nor by suspending the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.

Thank you Alten. I now know what to call myself. :)