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There you go sounding like the gerbil guy again. I agree with what you said about my opinion following standard logic and scientific reasoning and then you tell me I need to learn the scientific method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Of course I can't expect to have a reasonable debate with standard reasoning with the gerbil guy so why would I expect one from you. Like I said same problem different ideas.
Well I don't know who gerbil guy is, but I stuck purely to science so if you cannot deal with science, then so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by michealb
So you say you experience / have experienced ''God" directly?Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
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Well, some people have experienced a pink elephant. Does that mean that pink elephants exist?
George W. Bush in 2002 stated that "God" told him to invade Iraq. Just a pity that "God" did not reveal to him where these "weapons of mass-destruction" were located. Because just as with the pink elephants these WMD''s did not exist neither.
The asylums are full with "Napoleons" and "Charly Chaplins" who claim that "God" told them to be one of these persons. But are they real? Of course not!
We humor all these cases because not many people share them.
That more people believe in - or even claim to "know" "God" does not support in any way that such a "God" exist.
(exerpts from Dawkins and Harris)
We have names for people who have many beliefs for which there is no rational justification. When their beliefs are extremely common we call them "religious". Otherwise they are likely to be called "mad", "psychotic", or "delusional".
Religious people are not generally mad, but their core beliefs are !
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As always : from me you may BELIEVE in "God". You may also BELIEVE that you "know" that "God" exists, and you even may BELIEVE that "God" communicates with you.
But the onus to prove that what you BELIEVE is up to you, and other people do not have to prove that what you BELIEVE is incorrect. If you insist that your delusions are reality, than PROVE that with Objective Supported Evidence. And if you can't prove that, than please stop making these empty claims.
Until that moment your claim that you know that "God" exists is nothing more than an unsupported wild claim that carries no validity in the reality domain !
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Vred,Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Christiians have reason for their peliefs and have presented some of it to you. Having reason is what, by definition, is rational.
You have NEVER presented any reason for your beliefs, therefore shall we consider your beliefs irrational and your beliefs "mad"?
Incorrect : they expressed their interpretation of what they BELIEVED. But never the reason of their BELIEF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Unlike you and your religious peers I never claimed anything that is not supported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
The belief in some invisible being sitting on a throne in the clouds being busy with the sex life of 6+ billion human beings sounds rather delusional to me...
:D :D :D :D :D :D
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In the grand scheme of things what does it matter who believes what. Its human nature not to accept that which others are saying, without proof, just as its human nature to know without needing evidence. Since there is no credible evidence either way, no side can be right with any logical advantage, and the truth is we don't know one way or another. Changing someone's mind is not my idea of the greatest use of time, but in the sake of good old hard headed bickering both sides are wrong! Do you want evidence to that??
Cred, come on, you know better than that. The threads are on this board and others. Does it really hurt to admit the truth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Cred, you are unbelievable.Quote:
Unlike you and your religious peers I never claimed anything that is not supported.
Funny than that you never can provide clear examples of your wild and false claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Your reply is another example of this lack of support !
You claimed that ... Christians have reason for their beliefs and have presented some of it to me..
I reacted that this was incorrect as Christians only express their interpretation of what they BELIEVE , but never the reason of their BELIEF.
Actually hardly any Christian believer ever questioned him/herself WHY they believe and what the reason is for their belief.
At least I have hardly ever seen any post about this particular format of religious soul searching.
The 2500+ different Christian interpretations of the same instruction manual supports the conclusion that either the instruction manual is of extreme poor quality of editing, or that the religious views are based on some format of religious brainwashing.
What remains is my conclusion that stating that one "knows" that "God" exists is near delusional.
:D
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Oh Cred, and this from a man who outright refuses to provide evidence for him claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Here is one of the threads to help your obviously failing memory!
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ce-271164.html
From me anyone may believe whatever he or she likes.Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
My comments address the unsupported wild claim that what one personally believes has any format of validity over any other view.
From me you may believe that "God" exists. You also may state that you believe this or that...
But if you claim that "God" exists and/or that you "know" that "God" exist, you either have to support that with OSE, or accept that others reject such wild religious unsupported claims.
:rolleyes:
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You can refer as many times as you like to your list of queries on evolution, but that NEVER will be of any validity as to the existence of a deity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Tommy : I'm sorry to see that you still lack the understanding that lack of proof for idea A is not proof for the correctness of idea B.
Note that I offered you an open discussion of your queries on a board targeted at evolution questions, but that it was you who refused to go there...
:D :D :D :D :D :D
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That is what I said - whenever you see the evidence, you outright reject it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Tommy : what evidence ? As I already stated : I'm sorry to see that you still lack the understanding that lack of proof for idea A is not proof for the correctness of idea B.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
:D :D :D :D :D :D
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Your memory is getting shorter!Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religio...ce-271164.html
Not my memory, Tommy ! As I already stated :Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
what evidence ? I'm sorry to see that you still fail the understanding that the (claimed) lack of proof for evolution idea A is not proof for the correctness of religious idea B. .
You seem to be extremely frustrated that all you have is a totally invalid logical argument !
The link you provided indicates that all you can show in your claimed support for God's existence (idea B) are some queries on evolution - an entire different subject (idea A).
May it be in you to realize that Christianity is based on love and forgiveness, and not on all that hatred , despite , and frustration that you display here so often ! I hope that you can bring yourself to change your ways !
I wish you and your family a very merry Christmas, and hope to see you again - most probably - in the new year !
John
:)
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For everyone :
I wish you and yours a very merry Christmas, and I hope to see you all back early next year.
In the mean time as from this Friday I will be off-line in the UK to join in all the opcoming festivities with all my children and grandchildren.
Hereby my best wishes for you and yours in the new year !
:)
Please have a look here : LINK
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Sure you have. You often make the claim that the Bible is self-contridictory. Either support that claim or abandon it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Yes Galveston I posted two topics on Bible contradictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
No Galveston : I have NOT done that without supporting data.
One topic had some 50 lines of proof, another one had over 100+ lines of proof.
And I have already informed you about that now already twice !
That you are too lazy to search for these topics yourself is not my problem.
I feel no need to do that for you.
Merry Christmas, Galveston !
:)
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Then you did not read the evidence because that is not at all what it is about. Once again:Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religio...ce-271164.html
I also wish you have a memorable celebration of the birthday of Christ, and may you this year get to know personally.Quote:
I wish you and your family a very merry Christmas, and hope to see you again - most probably - in the new year !
Yes I did read the link Tommy. And I tried to find that by you claimed evidence, but it was not there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Why can't you simply in a few lines post what specific evidence (based on what you think) is there to be found and where?
This shows precisely who and what you are, Tommy. You know I am not interested in that, and that I do not intend to become a Christian EVER.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
For me Christmas time is the original celebration from long before Christianity : the winter solstice, with many happy people, good food, and the family together, looking forward to the new spring and summer. And you know that very well, as we have discussed that several times in the past.
Of course : if you prefer to go to church, do so. No problem at all.
I do not suggest you should visit one of the solstice celebrations.
Please do me the curtesy not to push your entangled and delusional religious ideas upon me and others who indicate likewise feelings.
:rolleyes:
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Good - the way that you are talking, it did not sound like you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Let me repeat what I stated earlier referring to your link and your claim involved in that link :Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
"The link you provided indicates that all you can show in your claimed support for God's existence (idea B) are some queries on evolution - an entire different subject (idea A).
... I'm sorry to see that you still fail the understanding that the (claimed) lack of proof for evolution (idea A) is not proof for the correctness of your religious views (idea B).
"
Please note that I clearly refer in this respect to the topic "Objective Supported Evidence for "God's" existence ?", in which you repeatedly tried to "prove" God's existence NOT by providing OSE for God's existence, but by questioning several evolution queries...
So once more I ask you : Why can't you simply in a few lines post what specific evidence (based on what you think) is there to be found in that link and where? (just state post number).
Once you have done that, we can discuss again the claim in this topic : that certain persons can "know" (as in proof) that God exist.
:)
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I was not arguing evolution nor making inquiries on it, though you and your friends seemed to think it was important and kept bringing it up. I was speaking of any natural alternative, and it appears that you and your friends have identified evolution as the only natural alternative. And was not saying that lack of eviodence for for anything was proof of anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
This was explained to you many times, but perhaps you lack of understanding on this key point is why you have so mcuh difficulty understanding the truth of God's existence.
Just to help you, here is the link once again:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ce-271164.html
The link is invalid, now what?
Alternative? Alternative to WHAT? The topic was "Objective Supported Evidence for "God's" existence ?" Not "proof for the theory of evolution" !Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
As to the Theory of Evolution : I have never denied that there are gaps in the theory, but given time more and more gaps are filled in with OSE and/or proper supported explanations. It is a sound scientific theory, backed up with loads of support.
As to the BELIEF in one or more deities : there simply is no OSE for "God's" existence : it is a BELIEF !
So you refer now to an alternative for a wild religious claim that has not a single iota of OSE support.
So your views are not realistic, and are more of a delusional claim by a fanatic religious fundamentalist.
Not really : you indeed made that unsupported statement many times. But from a realistic point of view it was not an explanation at all. It was nothing more than a nonsensical statement lacking any realism and sense of reality : you showed that you lack any sense in the fields of logic and argumentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I never stated that your "God" does not exist. All I stated is that the wild religious claim of existence of one or more deities is based on nothing more than hot air - totally failing any support process other than BELIEF.
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And to return to this topic again : what I stated above is why the claim that someone "knows" that "God" exists carries no validity.
Yes you can and may BELIEVE in the existence of one or more deities.
And you can "know" (in the sense of feeling and experiencing) the existence of one or more deities.
But nobody in his or her right mind "knows" (in the sense of OSE) that "God" exists.
:)
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I didn't ask you for 100+ scripture references, only one. I don't know how to locate what you refer to, and I don't have the time or inclination to waste, as I expect I would find a link to some atheist web site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
So, if you have so many contradictions, you shouldn't have trouble posting one or two.
Merry Christmas to you too. (sincerely)
For the third time : search this same Religious Discussions Board for these topics !Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
:)
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Try here:Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ce-271164.html
And the only people bringing up evolution were the atheists. Just like we see here. Here is the link:Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ce-271164.html
*sigh* this is ridiculous.
I know god is real? <- wt*
Like common, that is ridiculous.
I'm not saying I'm an atheist, I just question things, and am not religious... I just hope there is some sort of heaven and afterlife thing and etc etc.
Not all people that question god and stuff are atheists.
If there was true proof that there is god, it would be all over the news and world and the world would truly go insane. (idk kidding kinda)
It is a belief... you believe there is a god, you don't know 100% fact.
Who made god, how does the space go on forever? Whe can't understand these things... look up the big bang theory it's cool... anways.
Accept it's a belief not a fact.
The proof is there, but as we see on here, even when a thread of over 500 posts provides a small bit of the massive amount of evidence, a few folk simply don't want to even acknowledge it.Quote:
Originally Posted by marriaget
:eek:
Ok lets start by choosing which god. There are hundreds of gods out there but lets take yahweh the christian tribal god as an example.
Who's to say that by beliving in something we don't make it exist.
If we use the Karl R. Popper's classical method of reasoning know as modus ponens
Then god is real by definition and therfore self authenticating.
The definition of God is that than which nothing greater can be conceived.
It is greater to exist in relaity than in the mind alone.
Therefore God must exist in both the mind and reality.
Few know that the progress of science no longer depends primarily upon this method, but on the less familiar form known as modus tolens, which goes like this
If humans did't create the earth then something else must have
Humand didn't create the earth and god is something else
Therefore god created the earth.
Hope that helps
Yes 500 posts of you posting things and everyone else telling you that you don't know what your talking about proves god.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
As I've stated TJ3 your logic follows the same logic as the guy on the street corner that thinks gerbils are trying to take over the world. He has all of this evidence that he is certain proves his point however it doesn't follow standard reasoning. It is also pointless to argue with him because no matter what you tell him, his evidence is proof and no amount of real evidence is going to convince him that he is wrong.
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