Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
This one goes well with your island theme :)
Attachment 11022
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
This one goes well with your island theme :)
Attachment 11022
I feel a conspiracy here Cred0 just told me I need a Tweety altvar...
Am I being ganged up on??
No, no, I saw your post where you said you'd look for a tweetie avy, just thought I'd help. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Sweet Alty, I just ran onto your thread. I read several pages. It is always interesting to me how other's believe and why.
I would like to just share a thought:
You sought to know your father and he communed and communicated with you for many years. You came to truly know his heart and he knew yours. A letter or note is jotted down by someone who knows your father personally and another person finds it and reads it. It makes no sense to them and they toss it aside saying it had no relevance to their life and appeared to be conflicting. You see them toss it aside and you pick it up. You read it and because your father had someone else jot it down for him at his bequest, you knew without a doubt that it was his words being written to you from his heart. You totally understood what was written and there was no conflict because you KNEW your father and his love. It all made perfect sense to you. For you, it would be difficult to read that note and understand how anyone could ever misunderstand that note or think it was conflicted. You had placed your trust in your father and you trusted his words, though they were written by someone else at his request. You took a leap of faith as a little child to jump into his arms even though it didn't make sense to you. It looked to you that you would fall and be hurt terribly but your dad kept saying to trust him, he would not let you down so you chose to trust him and you jumped and true to his word, he caught you and it was wonderful fun!!! (Granted not all earthly dads show this kind of love for their children that yours did but when they do, how much easier it is to understand the love a Heavenly Father could have for us.)
I placed my trust in God through His son Jesus and what He did on the cross a long time ago. I read His word, though written by others inspired by God to write it. But God is the one who spoke truth to my heart as I read the Bible. I can read one scripture and it holds little for me on a given day yet on another day, I read the same verse and God ministers His truth of that scripture to my heart. I know it is true for that day and that circumstance as well as I know my name. I took a leap of faith when I felt God quietly speak to me (not audibly) but still I knew He was saying to trust Him, receive Him, allow Him to be a part of my life and let him catch me even when I think I might fall because He will be true to His word and He has been.
My daughter-in-law was raised Catholic as you mentioned you were, school, church and home. She knew about God. She knew scriptures, she knew the Bible stories, she knew what she had been taught to believe but gradually, she began to read the Bible on her own to find out what was truth to her, not to her parents or to her church but to her. God spoke to her heart and she asked God to forgive her sins and come into her life. I was not there during that time as she lives in another state but she shared with her husband that she felt she had been cheated all those years. It is different knowing all about God and knowing him personally, sort of like someone knowing about your daddy but not really knowing him personally. It makes all the difference in the world. She has blossomed into a person, different from the one that I first came to know.
(Please understand I am not saying that Catholics do not know God personally. I just shared one story of one person who went through the motions but it was never real to her until she began to seek God in a personal way to have a personal relationship with Him. This happens in all kinds of churches and being in church doesn't make one a Christian any more than being in a barn, makes one a horse or cow or chicken or even a farmer.) LOL
No one can convince another to change their beliefs. I can share, you can share, all these other friends can share what is in our hearts with one another but ultimately, it is up to each of us to choose our path of belief.
I love to share my faith with others. Like you, I choose not to argue. It serves no purpose. We each choose as I say. Thanks for letting me share. You know me Alty, I tend to write epics!!!!!!!! : )
:D I guess I am ganging up on me too :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Just to raise a point of me. I personally don't really like catholism. That's because in EVERY catholic church I know, I can see a sculpture of Jesus on the cross, or some virgin of some sort, etc. That goes in contradiction to the word of God, which says that you shall not glorify any idol. Am I right?Quote:
Originally Posted by rebbie
I agree totally!Quote:
Originally Posted by rebbie
Hey there Uncky, I think we can find something in all churches that we don't agree with. For me, I had to just find the church that I agreed the most with, that I felt went along with what I understood about the Bible as I studied it and that the people (as much as is within them) practice what they preach!! LOL Goodness, I fall short there at times. I am just thankful that I know God and His love and mercy and forgiveness and He does guide me although I do get stubborn in my spirit at times and rebel a bit.
That human part of me sure does get in the way sometimes. LOL
Ideally, I would combine a couple of churches and be real happy because one puts into practice one thing that for me I feel is important but not another and vice versa. We don't live in a perfect world that's for sure and no church is perfect. But still, we come here and share and that is a positive and good thing and I am so thankful for this site and thankful I have met you here.
While I believe that being active in a church encourages one to study the Bible more perhaps and is a great place to have a healthy exchange of ideas and most churches meet some needs that arise in families, I do not believe one has to be in a church every time the door is open to be a witness for the Lord or to minister to peoples needs. I think the church is a great base and perhaps attending might keep me more grounded as the world throws things my way, but I was at home when I asked God in Jesus Name to forgive my sins and come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior.
We live by a highway and we have had numerous people come to our door, either out of gas or with a flat tire or needing to use our phone and we welcome those anytime we can help because we do believe that God led us to buy the house where we live now to help others in need. We even had a guy come recently to our door late at night that his truck had been torched with him in it and he had been burned but ran all the way to our house. We were able to calm him and pray with him until help arrived. But one day, we were getting ready to go to church and the door bell rang. I was busy getting ready and later my husband came in and I asked who was at the door. He said it was a guy walking and asking directions to the Mission downtown. I asked if he invited him in. He said NO, we are getting ready to go to church. I think he and I both "GOT IT" about the same time when I said, "Why are we going to church? We are to help and love people. Where did he go?" Well, we got in the car and told the guy if he wanted to go to church with us, we would gladly take him to the mission after church which he did and we called ahead so they would have a hot meal and clean bed for the man when we took him after church. It was a real eye opener in one way to see a person in need but being caught up in the act of going to church. LOL Our children were small and I think was a great time of teaching that we are to love people and help meet their needs when we can and that God gives us opportunities if we are just in tune to them. God is good and a gracious God... I sure would be in sad shape other wise!! LOL
Post #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrebel7
Ownership for your choice and path in life. Responsibility and Accountability for those choices. I very much enjoyed the thoughts you shared.
~ Child of God
Thank you sndbay! I am always so wordy! You basically put it in a nutshell. Thank you! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Actually Rebbie, I wasn't raised Catholic, I just went to Catholic school, because that's where my friends went and I wanted to be with them. I was ostracized from everything regarding their beliefs because I wasn't Catholic, that's why I'm against organized religion for myself.
Officially I was raised as part of the Lutheran church, in a way. We did attend church twice a year, christmas and easter, but that's it. My parents didn't shove religion down my throat, they did believe in God and told me so, but they very much believed that I had to find my own way, my own beliefs, and they gave me the freedom to do so, I will forever be thankful to them for letting me be who I am. :)
Some info about me;
10 years of catholic school opened my eyes to man made beliefs, because, to me, that's what they are. I was considered a bastard in their eyes, because my parents weren't married in the catholic church, because my mother refused to convert. My parents where married in the Lutheran church, and were told by a catholic priest that in the eyes of God they weren't really married and all their children (I'm the only one) would be bastards.
While attending catholic school there were many times when the entire school went to catholic services. I was not allowed to receive communion, because I'm not catholic. That gave the kids and sadly the teachers another reason to ostracize me. My father even went to the church to speak with the priest, tell him that I was being bullied because I wasn't catholic. The priests response "If you baptized her in the catholic religion then she wouldn't have these problems, but until her soul is saved there's nothing I can do". All this because of a simple wafer bought in the local store.
I'm not trying to make anyone here accept my beliefs, I'm simply trying to understand why so many people put stock in a book written by man, in an institution run by man, I simply don't understand why.
I know that I will never find a church that accepts my views, nor do I wish to search for one. I have read the bible and do not see the work of God, but the stories of men. I do not preach to my children, I simply tell them what I believe and then accept whatever path they choose. If my children grow up not believing, if that is what they choose then that's okay with me. They are good kids, they have empathy for every living thing in this world, they know love and give love, they are kind and intelligent, and really, in the end, isn't that what matters most?
I respect everyone's right to believe what they want. I guess I'm just trying to find my place in this, where I stand, because I've never met anyone with the same beliefs as me.
Thank you all for responding, I value every thought. I don't always agree, but I do value what you say and I respect what you believe. :)
That's the spirit ! Nobody should be forced to believe something he/she does not or can not support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Unfortunately the more fundamental people are, the less tolerant they become to other people's right to believe whatever they prefer. The post about non-Christian being referred to as non-belief spoke volumes...
The pleasure was in this case all mine, and I fully agree with what you stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
:)
·
Alty,Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
With all do respect.. Just because Some priests or churches had that belief, does not mean that, that belief comes from the bible. It comes from man... Not all catholic churches are the same and not all the preists are the same. I have had many unusual and not so good experiances at church, but it almost feels as if bad talk of catholic is norm. Not all catholics feel the same and not all of the practises are the same or beliefs from church to church or priest to priest.
For instance, my mom had a divorce, from my father because he was a cheater and drunk. Legit reasons for separation. Years later, she wanted to get married in the catholic church.. Catholic church refused and said she could not get remarried in the church because she is still considered married in the eyes of God and the church.
She had to go to a baptist church and they had no problem marrying her.
They also gave my aunt a hard time. She was not married and they wanted to baptise there child and they did not want to do it.
I think that man is limited.. Many people assume what the church teaches or priests preach is from the bible, and that is where so many misconceptions of the bible come from because people abuse it and twist things for their own agendas.
Just remember do not lump everybody under the same tree just because they may be catholic. Like myself, but as I said before I do not feel that I belong to any church. Because I belong to God... Although I feel comfortable in certain churches then others. Things have changed a lot too.
Also remember being forced to go to confession all the time. I felt like I had to come up with sins that I committed.. It was almost like I was being forced to confess things even though as a kid I felt like I had nothing to confess.
Just wanted to share this with you and others.
My biggest problem with the Bible (as I've stated before) is that it was written in a time span of 1500 years and by over 40 men... we know that a sentence said in a circle is never the same when it ends as it was when it began, and that takes what, 10 minutes. So it is hard to wrap your head around those facts.
As far as the old testemant isn't that all forgotten, forgiven now? I don't know of any Christians who follow it..
That's just my problem in understanding it! :)
Thank you Cred. :)
It has also been a pleasure reading everyone's responses. I am glad that this thread has gone so well, I had allot of reservations when I wrote it.
I know that to Christians I am an anomaly. How can I believe without believing in the bible or Church? Do I really believe?
I do believe in God, perhaps he isn't the same God that Christians believe in, I'm still trying to figure that out. Darnit, 37 years and I still have questions.;)
The reason for my beliefs are my own, I cannot even begin to explain. Even if I did explain, I cannot prove that my experiences or reasons are fact, heck, I sometimes wonder if it is, maybe it was lack of oxygen one night. ;)
Part of my faith comes from the fact that I cannot imagine never again seeing my parents. I hope that heaven is real, I hope that when I die I will be reunited with them and all of the loved ones I have lost. The thought that I won't, that's too much to bear.
Thank you everyone once again for your thoughts, your beliefs, and for sharing them with me. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Oh Joe,
I'm so sorry if it sounded like I was saying all Catholics are bad, that's truly not what I meant.
I have many friends that are Catholic, they are wonderful people, and they've never looked down on me because of my beliefs. You are one of those people Joe, and I do consider you a friend.
I guess I'm not explaining myself well. Honestly, in order to do so I'd have to write an entire book, I don't think anyone wants to read it here. ;)
Catholic school isn't the only reason I turned away from organized religion. I was a member of the Lutheran church , I've done research and gone to services at Pentecostal churches, baptist churches and many others. Organized religion just isn't for me, because it's run by man, and therefore it's mans beliefs that are being preached.
I don't know how to go about making everyone understand without condeming others beliefs,I'm sorry if that's the way it came out. I guess I'm going about this all wrong.
I hope you know that I would never intentionally say anything to hurt you, I'm sorry if I did.
Alty.
Thank you for sharing you experiences. I do understand some of what you shared because I went to catechism with a very close friend. I was treated much the same as you not just by the church but even by my friend's sisters. I have other friends who were raised in the Catholic church and attended public school so there is many variations to all of our experiences. My one friend was never allowed to visit my church but she could take me to hers. Seems a little closed to me. I was young at the time and remember feeling that was a bit unfair to my friend as well as to me. I had another friend who, because he attended a morning get together at the high school that professed Christ, was called on the carpet so to speak by his priest. They had long conversations and he ended up stopping attending anything to do with God or the church, any church. One of our friends was the President of "Teen for Christ". The year he graduated, he went to Viet Nam and was killed. I had no contact with the guy who was his best friend for many years. He contacted me three years ago, via Classmates. He had a car fall on him and was in painful therapy. He said I kept coming to mind but he didn't know why. (I believe that when it came down to life and death, he remembered I was in the group that Jed led and was hoping to find some answers to things he had dealt with since high school. As we e-mailed and he got better, he and his wife commissioned me to do a drawing for them. He and his daughter came to pick it up. He asked if my husband and myself would mind finding where Jed was buried and go to the cemetery with him when he came home to see his mother. We did. I had shared how bad things happen to good people and because of Jed's witness to him, as his friend, he was still thinking about Jed's faith. He had no peace about Jed and about his own situation in his beliefs. He was so broken by our friends death, he was not able to attend services, just sat on the hood of his car out by the curb and had cried so hard. After the first visit to the cemetery and sharing about his conflict and my resolve I had found, he went alone to the cemetery and stayed a couple of hours and prayed. Result, he prayed and asked God in Jesus Name to come into his heart and he then had peace. He came to our home and shared this and said he had never known such freedom and peace. He lives in another state. He says his marriage is better and a sister he had such ill feelings toward, he now feels compassion for. That is not the work of man. I don't think one can explain it in human terms. But as I sorted through all of that and thought of Jed losing his life, I had to wonder, to us, his death seemed premature but had he lived on, would his life had such an impact on this friend. I don't know. All I know is that the memory of how this guy chose to live did have an impact and caused a permanent change, at least in one person's life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
I don't blame you for having the feelings you have. You were treated badly, to the point of abuse in my opinion. I would have been kickin' and screamin' at that point in my life. I was not so tempered as I am now AND I have a long way to go even now. I look at my mother and wonder, why can things just not be absorbed by osmosis from parent to child. LOL She is so full of grace and peace and is so calm then there is me, a bit mouthy and much more temperamental than she.
I understand that you are not trying to make anyone here accept your beliefs! You have valid questions and statements and with good reason!! Grrrrr... I kind of want to go punch their lights out now for those kids hurting you. (See what I mean, I get to be a mama bear even now). Sweet Alty, I appreciate your post. It opens subjects up to be shared. That's a good thing! I understand that you don't agree with all things shared on this thread but you do give respect to each of us and for that, I thank you! I respect you for putting this thread out there. That took courage in my opinion.
For me, believing the Bible as God's word is a choice I make each day. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." It does take a leap of faith and I guess I am just sharing with you that I made that leap of faith and for me, it has proven correct 100% of the time. I am not saying my life has been easy. As you know, I have had death threats on my children, house was set on fire and my daughter's car was blown up in our driveway by a stalker and when she went to college, he stalked me and I was in bed for almost a year with an illness that took a loooong time to diagnose, yet even then, I had a peace that as the Bible says, "passes all understanding" you know, like of man. I don't understand it but I accept it. I realize it is difficult to sort all this out in all of our minds but it is good to share with each other. I think we all gain from it. You are a neat gal with such a wonderful family, your children are beautiful. You have been a warm and wonderful friend to me on this site and I appreciate you very much Alty.
Oh Rebbie, my dear sweet Rebbie, thank you so much for those wonderful words. I appreciate you too my dear, you are such a kind caring person, never a mean word to anyone. You say you have a temper? Hmmm, I've never seen it. I imagine it would be like a fly beating an elephant, because you are too kind hearted to do any serious damage to anyone. :)
There are many things I don't understand, hence the questions, but I do know my belief, and I accept it without question. Thank you for sharing your beliefs with me.
Ha, ha, I guess you are. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
I had to laugh as you described a fly beating an elephant!! :eek: That was a terrific visual... LOL :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
It was my pleasure to share with you and I appreciate you opening up and sharing things so personal to your life. :)
Alty - your belief in God w/o a 'belief' in organized religion isn't all that unusual. While I'm a full-fledged atheist now, I once thought I believed in God. On my way to realizing I never really did, I went through a period where it was only organized religion I shunned, mostly because I saw it as very hypocritical ('our religion is based on love but if you're too different we don't want you around and/or are sure you'll be condemned to hell"). Even then I knew that not all people of faith were like that, but the 'orders' from church elders made it seem as though churches were too 'exclusive.' The last time I was in church was when the minister railed about communism for his sermon instead of teaching any type of gospel.
As I went from Christian to agnostic to atheist, I realized that the only reason I believed in my youth was because that's all I knew. I didn't know anyone didn't believe. (I grew up on the northern edge of the Bible Belt.) Mom was a strong believer, but not a church-goer. No aspect of religion was pushed on me, it was just a part of life where I grew up.
I was just trying to explain things in my own way. That's all. No offence taken. I do understand alty and I did make that clear in previous posts... When I said how I am only a visitor at churches. I do not belong in any church because I belong to God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
I really do feel we are more a like then you realize.. There is this person that would say you're a universalist.. Meaning your not confined to any man made rituals, customs and churches. I feel there is nothing for you to explain.. It is black and white.
Just for example, somebody called me a closet universalist because I do not conform to a lot of beliefs that are held by many churches or denominations or religions.
For example: Certain churches teach there peoples that if you do not get your child baptised.. If anything happens to that child. The child is not considered saved. In my own personal view, and Gods word within my heart. Gods spirit is already within us and none of us have to be baptised to be saved because I feel that we are already are, that God has baptised us with his spirit as soon as we are given life. I feel that church and the baptism of a child is more of a show for the church and family.
Some of my family call it laziness but I believe that there is no reason to get a child baptised. The church teaches otherwise, but according to the bible only adults got baptised as a sign of their commitment to God, when they were OLD ENOUGH TO MAKE THAT CHOICE Themselves..
I hope you know where I am going with this.. There are many things it does not matter what church or religion I go to. It is not the same as my personal beliefs and I do not think any of them would be exactly what I am looking for because I have my own personal set beliefs that I think are the right ones that I feel God wants me to make.
(;
Not correct : most fundamental Christians still insist that Genesis is a literal , historical, and factual representation of the origin of the universe and life on earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by go-ask-mom
:rolleyes:
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That is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Rebbie, thanks for your reply. Concerning the practice thing for the preachings, I find that here also. Well, I've ever met someone preaching EXACTLY the same thing on two different Sundays. But it's perhaps a good thing if there are newbies, or that someone has not verymuch understand the preach.
Alty, someone can be a christian without going to church, you know. The church, I think is only there to 'help' you, even if in some, you don't really receive that help. The church helps in the way that you 'go and make of all nations, God's disciples'. But if you keep a good relation with God, I'm sure that you don't need to go to church, because there may also be people influencing you to go towards the wrong path. Thanks for having shared your experiences, you, Rebbie, Joe and others.
Peace be with you all.
Yes someone could. But what is "wrong" with people being Deist??Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown008
What is more important to a deity (if such an entity exists) :
- That people believe in it's existence ?
- That people believe in all the apparently human created dogmatic claims about that deity ?
Or is it even possible that such a deity couldn't care less what human beings believe ?
Salam / Peace be with you too !
:)
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Ann Landers once said that church is a hospital for sinners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknown008
Dear ALL,
Whatever we think and believe comes from one source. Since you believe in God not the Bible that is great. It would be worse if you could not believe in God.
The Bible is the sacred scriptures. May be what is Sacred, and Scripture? This is where your problems originates.
Shortly, Sacred refers to Holiness, or sanctity, is the state of being holy or sacred, that is, set apart for the worship or service of gods. It could also mean being set apart to pursue (or to already have achieved) a sacred state or goal, such as Nirvana. It is often ascribed to people, objects, times, or places.
Then scripture is the writings of Prophets, and people of God.
To sum up, the Bible is a book for holy words written by prophets and people of God whom you believe. If God the one you believe has His people,is it wrong to trust them. They wrote it by the directions from God. And God wanted His words to reach all the people in the form they can easily understand (languages).
So my friend, if you believe in God, His words and instructions are found in the Bible. Read it and you shall be enlighted.
Thanks.
Hujambo, PIMA !
Worse ? Why is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMA
For a Christian. Not for a Deist !Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMA
That is what you BELIEVE. But is that so? Surely not for a deist !Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMA
Kwaheri from ex-Dar-es-Salam inhabitant !
:rolleyes:
·
Pima, I know very well what Christians claim the bible to be, my belief is different.
Let me tell you a little secret. Yes, I believe in God, without believing in the bible or church. I realize that this disturbs allot of people. How can she deny the bible, how can she turn her back on church, can we change her mind, can we save her soul?
Let me assure you, my soul is just fine, and so is my mind (although I'm sure a few of you think I'm off my rocker ;)). I have given all of this allot of thought, this wasn't something I just decided over night. In fact, until Cred gave my beliefs a name, I thought that I was the only one who believes what I believe.
We are all people, human beings, and as such we are fallible. Yes, we make mistakes, we "sin" and we either learn, move on, live good lives, treat others kindly, or we don't.
Christians aren't immune to sin, they aren't any "better" because they go to church and read the bible. As for communion, do you really think that a wafer and a sip of wine is going to make a difference? Especially if you go home after church to beat your wife and kids, cheat on your taxes and molest your daughter (yes, my childhood friends very catholic family was just like that).
Sorry, but you all will have to do without me in the fold, I'm happy were I am, I just wish you al could accept it.
Did someone say they are?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
No one says they will. That's not the reason why Christians take Communion... "to make a difference."Quote:
As for communion, do you really think that a wafer and a sip of wine is going to make a difference?
I suspect you have thrown out the baby with the bathwater. In fact, I'm not even sure you had a baby in that bathwater in the first place.
Wondergirl, you are right, there was no baby with the bathwater.
I never asked for anyone to tell me to read the bible, I simply asked why so many people put their faith in a man written book.
I stated from the beginning that I wouldn't change my mind, but still I'm told to read the bible, read the bible, read the bible. I've read it, many times, have no desire to read it again. Here's the latest request.
I know that most of you think that the only way is through the bible, really, I understand. But why can't someone believe in God without the bible, without church?Quote:
So my friend, if you believe in God, His words and instructions are found in the Bible. Read it and you shall be enlighted.
Okay, I'm just getting upset, and I'm obviously upsetting other people, so maybe it's time to close the thread, it was a bad idea, I should have known better.
Peace to all, I'll request that it's closed.
Alty alty alty,
Your not upsetting me at all. I do not know why you would request the thread to be closed? Why are you getting upset?
I believe Gods word is written within each of us. Not necessarily in a book but within our soul, spirit. So alty there is no reason for you to get upset..
Edit:::
Not everybody is going to agree or understand, but that is going to be the case no matter who you talk to.
Getting defensive just because somebody else is, is not going to help at all. Discussion is needed here on this thread, because then maybe you will open Other Christians eyes in a way they have never been able to see God before.
That is one of your goals or purposes is to share with people what the TRUE GOD IS.
They can and do all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
This time there's a baby in that bathwater that you are throwing out. Let's save the baby and toss only the bathwater.Quote:
Okay, I'm just getting upset, and I'm obviously upsetting other people, so maybe it's time to close the thread, it was a bad idea, I should have known better.
Do you realize, Alty, that you, at least here on AMHD, very much show that God is in your heart and is working in your life? Jesus said, there are two great commandments: 1) Love God 2) Love others. Isn't that what you do? Seems to me it is.
Okay Joe and Wondergirl, now I'm misty eyed.
I just don't want anyone to be upset, least of all me. ;)
I really don't know why I started this post, what did I hope to accomplish, what did I hope to discuss? In a way I guess I just wanted to state my opinion, my beliefs, and see if anyone else felt the same way I did. I should have gone about it differently I guess. 20/20 hindsight is a b*tch. ;)
I'm sorry I got defensive, if you knew me, my life, all my experiences, and felt the same way about them that I did, then you'd understand. No one can walk in someone else's shoes, and it's so hard to explain clearly why I believe what I believe.
If you believe in the bible then great, I hope no one thinks that I'm saying don't read it, even though it sounds like I am saying just that. Did that make any sense?
It's not for me, and I have read it, church isn't for me either, and I have gone to many different ones, many different times.
I have felt God, but I haven't ever seen him. I've experienced things that are too real, and too surreal for me to think it's just a weird event, or a twist of fate. I believe, but I've been told so many times that it's not enough, that my belief isn't real or acceptable because I won't accept the bible as the word of God and I won't go to church to hear men preach about something they read from the bible.
I have been told that I'm going to hell because of my beliefs, I've been told that I'm a terrible person because I won't read the bible and accept it. All this from Christians, wonderful, peace loving, God loving, God fearing, bible reading, church going Christians.
The other day the little girl across the street who is one year older than Sydney and is Mormon, told my little girl that she is going to go to hell because she doesn't go to church. Sydney came home crying, asking if it was true. I've told them that God is a wonderful, wonderful being, forgiving, kind, caring, loving, and that he would never turn his back on them. All that was shot down because of a few hurtful words, and for the first time in a long time I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs "I'll see you in hell!"
I'm sorry that this is so long. I'm sorry that I've been snippy today, but seeing the hurt in my daughters eyes brought back so many hurtful memories, and those memories still hurt today. Now she has to deal with this, all because of narrow minded people who think it's their way or the highway.
Okay, enough. I won't close the thread, but please, no more telling me to read the bible, I have, cover to cover and it's not for me, it never will be. As for my kids, I'll talk when they ask, teach when they have a question, and tell them exactly what my parents told me, it's up to you to find your path, and when you do, don't let anyone steer you somewhere else.
As for the two of you, Wondergirl and Joe, thank you. :)
I am sorry that your daughter went through that pain... but you know that it is not true and hopefully your daughter is reassured by your words that it is not true..
God is not a hateful god. God is a loving God. Love is the greatest thing in the world and that is what your showing us and your children Alty.
I hope you know that Not all Christians believe what was told to you, or your daughter.
Take care Alty.
I do know that Joe, but because I've encountered so many Christians that do, I tend to put up a wall first, judge every word, because I'm just waiting for negativity and judgement.
I do know not to judge someone else because of their beliefs, and I try really hard not to, but I've been judged many times because of my beliefs, and in a negative way, so I have my shield up and ready at all times. I am learning to listen and not judge, but I've been doing this for a long time, it's hard to change your ways. ;)
So, having said that, forgive me if I get testy, snippy and b*tchy, it happens, and I am trying, really I am. :)
Peace. :)
Hi Alty,
I can understand your frustration at those that know they are right. I shared it for a time until I came to realize that they were trying to hold onto something to help them through, as we all do! I think having to work to establish a personal relationship with the God that I understand, has made me see to put nothing else between HIM, and me, and that's what I hold onto to get me through, but I understand those who need the ceremonies, and tradition, to help them bring it home to them.
Never, as hard as it is, let the ideas of others separate you from that relationship that guides your life, and you can bet, they won't either, so you see we humans are not that different, no matter the labels, dogma, or tradition of those that claim to be different.
This is a great thread ALTY, and you know that it one of the few times that peaceful debate has gone on, by such a diverse set of people, in these threads. Don't be frustrated, just understand that sometimes we can't help but believe what we do, we just do.
Okay Tal, now there's a tear running down my face. Thank you for your words, they mean so much.
Okay kids, let's keep talking, I promise I'll listen, and I also promise to tell you if I don't agree, after all, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. No comments about the old dog part. ;)
I had a long talk with my little girl today, and I told her that what her friend said was wrong, and that God didn't like what she said, because God doesn't like people to be hurtful and mean to each other.
You know what she did. She went back to her friend today, after many days of not talking to her, and she said. " I'm going to heaven too, my mommy says so, and if you're lucky, we'll get to play there together, but not if you're mean, because God doesn't like that". Way to go Sydney! :)
Alty, God comes to us where we are. He doesn't ask you to make the first move; He makes it. We don't find Him; He finds us.
I'm glad He found you.
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