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Completey fine with me my dear. If you are going to answer someone else's post, just a tip, "quote them". I makes it much easier to know who you are speaking of, and who you are disagreeing with!Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtemisAlexis
I'm worth every second of effort I have put in to this site to help people, and I have gotten many thanks for doing so. You are not yet to be able to say the same. I was quite polite to you. Only asking you to get familiar with the site. Good luck to you!
Thank you, and thanks for the tip.
It's not about accomplishing anything, it's about having stimulating conversations. It's about sharing ideas and learing about other people. Most of the people on these boards are firm in the belief or lack thereof; it doesn't mean we can't have civil conversations and learn something from one another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
<<Hug>>
To be fair, there are several theists on this board who do the same thing. There are several who have been banned for being so hateful.Quote:
Originally Posted by starbuck8
Thank you for distinguishing between the ones who behave this way and the ones who don't; I agree with you! Some people need to grow up! :)Quote:
I know this isn't the belief or actions of all atheists, but the two I have encountered on this thread seem to be very self-righteous, and absorbed in a world of their own. They attack others on a personal level, and act like school yard kids.
Here is that irony again. You (an athiests) are the one who is here promoting your atheistic Darwinistic beliefs on a religious forum. So how is it that you claim we are the ones trying to convince you of our faith?? I don't get it.. lol seriously. You voluteered yourself to come on a religious discussion so its not like relgious people are the ones going on atheist forums to promote their beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by WVHiflyer
So really, maybe the reason why you athiests are here is to try and convince us of your faith because deep down you don't really believe there is no god.
Hello everyone,
Having read all the posts on this board, I now feel terribly sad... I can see quite clearly now, how all the religious wars began... which were also quite unnecessary.
Blessings
Hello:
I think Orphan is right. Religion HAS caused lots of wars...
And, that's exactly why THIS atheist is here. Yes, it's true, 97% of the worlds population are believers. But, if I can convince one of them that what they believe is hooey, then I've done my job towards world peace.
See? It has NOTHING to do with religion.
excon
A little less than that:Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Major Religions Ranked by Size
Im sorry you got that impression but it is actually quite the contrary.. I am a very happy Christian and was under the impression that I could come one a religious forum to have civil discussions on religion with other believers of different religions. Well, I was wrong because religious forums seem to be full of (ironically), for the most part, angry athiests who want who are just here to convince believers that they are "illogical"," irrational" and stupid for believing in god in an effort to propagate and promote their own atheistic beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtemisAlexis
You are mistaken. Go back and read what I said. I said "i never said this was a Christian forum" But yes I did say it is a religious forum because indeed it is.Quote:
First you say that you 'never said this was a religious forum' and then you start the next sentence with 'this is a religious forum', then you verbally attack some poor guy for responding to a question you specifically designed to be answered by atheists.
Like I said before... If athiests like yourself think they can come on a religious forum to insult, mock and make condescending remarks about religion and think that I am going to be quite and take the abuse they better ask somebody.. lolQuote:
What is your deal? Your obviously looking for an argument and then running into playing the victim, if your representing Christians in this OPEN forum, then your really giving them a bad rep.
Being a Christian does not mean you let people walk all over you. We still have the right to stand up for ourselves especially from all the HATE speech we experience on this site.
Again you are sadly mistaken. The Problem is athiests like Cred. And a few others who from day one have been terrorising and harassing Believers. I have had normal civil discussions with people like Lobroster(atheist) who I don't have a problem with. I am the most outspoken believer here because I don't stay silent when my religion is attacked, so naturally all the athiests here hate me but I don't really care. :cool: :)Quote:
At first I felt a little sad for you being harassed whilst trying to speak to other like minded people on these religious forums- but now I can see that you're the one creating all the problems.
You obviously have some serious anger issues.. but I will just let it go. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtemisAlexis
Please see Post # 68 on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
Sassy enough! This is a religious discussion board, not the Christianity board. From my understanding (I was told by the mods) this forum was set up specifically for Atheists and other people who did not have a specific forum to go to. There is a Christianity board, and other religious boards, this one is for discussion, for anyone, and everyone. If you only wanted Christians to answer your post then you should have posted on the Christiantiy board. But you posted here and asked atheists to join in, so why are you complaining that they're here?
Please try to have a rational discussion about different beliefs, allot of us have already managed to do that, there are just a few that want to continue to fight.
I have some questions, one for Sassy and two for everyone.
Sassy, Do you include creationism and antievolutionary biology are part of your religious belief? That is, if you criticize evolution and someone criticizes your argument, do you feel that's an attack on your religion?
My second question is for everyone: Do you believe that religious Freedom includes the right to not practice any religion, i.e. atheism and agnosticism or simple nonreligiousness? Or does that seem objectionable to you?
And, in a related vein, if it's polite to not make fun of someone's religious beliefs or criticize them, is it also part of being polite to not criticize atheists for lack of belief? Or do you think those things are really different?
Hello asking:
Well, maybe you should have started your own thread. Anyhow, I'll answer:
There is a difference between criticism and making fun of somebody - a BIG difference. As a matter of fact, it's that difference that causes problems. One is attacking someone's belief, which is what we're here to do, and one is attacking the other person, which we are NOT here to do.
If people could tell the difference, it would be a lot more peaceful around here - indeed, in the whole world.
That was the second question. Here's the answer to the first: If you are NOT free to practice NOTHING, then you're NOT free at all.
excon
Alternweg, why are you misinterpreting what I am saying? Of course I have no problems with Atheists coming on this religious forums as long as they are here to have civil discussions with us and not make attacks insults and condesceding remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Altenweg, you came into this later in the game that's why you don't understand what I am talking about. Since I have been on this forum I have seen some (not all) atheists call Christian/religious people names like "Ignorant", "Uneducated", reference to our input as "religious babble""Hot AIR" even "Bull S**t" just to name a few.
Some athiests have said believing in God is like believing in the "Boogeyman".. I think that is an insulting thing to say about someone's religion don't you think?
One guy here said Christians are nothing but a "political party engaged in such nasty organized behavior"
This all sounds like bigoted hate speech to me...
So my deal is, if atheists want to come and discuss religion they should learn to respect other people's beliefs and some athiests here may not agree but they are respectful which I appreciate.
So this post is specifically directed to the rowdy ones.
[QUOTE]Asking you and I have had heated but civil debates about evolution vs Creation and I have no problems with you because even though we don't agree you have never resorted to attacks and name calling as some of the people on this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
So no, I do not at all take offense to constructive criticism of my arguments. I understand we all don't agree and the best thing we can do is present our side of the argument. Which I do and anyone is free to agree or refute it. No problem, that's all part of the fun of debates. But it is when people run out of intelligent things to say and resort to play ground name calling and mudslinging and attacking one's religion.
As I have said before, I disbeliefe in the theory of evolution is independent of my religious belief, it just based on the fact that I have not seen any conclusive evidence that I find satisfactory to qualify the theory as fact. So I don't know why when I refute evolution I get attacks from athiests calling my argument religious babble but at the same time they can not prove macro evolution. I just don't get it.. :(
Sassy, biologists view creationism as a religious argument, since there is no known scientific basis for creationism. Even the conservative Republican judge in the Dover case concluded that creationism and intelligent design were, at heart, religious arguments. That's the view of people who accept modern biological thought on evolution.
I have no problem with your viewing your belief in creationism as separate from your personal religious beliefs, but I think a lot of the confusion may arise from people assuming that your attacks on evolution are religious dogma, which leads to religious arguments. I don't think anyone enjoys those much.
It is frustrating for some of us to have to defend something that we view as proved (evolution) from someone like yourself who knows "just enough to be dangerous." That is, I feel macroevolution has been proved and I have presented some of the evidence in other threads.
You have said you are not personally satisfied with any evidence for evolution--although I have to say that biology for the last 100 years IS satisfied, so this lack of satisfaction with the evidence is particular to you and other people who are mostly not practicing biologists. I have asked you what sort of evidence could satisfy you as to the truth of evolution, but if you answered, I didn't see it. I feel that a serious conversation about evolution would have to start with that, because I can't keep guessing what evidence might satisfy you. If your discussion of evolution is in fact a scientific discussion (and not religious), then it's incumbent on you to state your terms--that is, what would it take to prove that new species can form?
Sassy, I have been on this site much longer than you, and I have fought with certain people about religion before you even came on this site, so no, I did not come into the game later, I've been here all along, and I know what happens on these threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
You question atheists rights to come on religious boards, I'm trying to explain to you that this particular board, The religious Discussions board, was started for atheists (that's what I was told), so that they would have a place to talk about their beliefs. So, having said that, you are posting on their board, not the other way around, understand? If you had posted this on the Christian discussion board then you might have a case, but even then it's doubtful because you specifically asked atheists to answer your thread. Be careful what you ask for, you might get it. ;)
We all have to learn to respect each other, it's not just the atheists, it's the Christians too, until that happens, there will not be a rational calm discussion about our different beliefs.
Don't judge a whole group on a few people.
I know that you are very passionate about this, but you have to calm down, read everything that is said as a statement, not an attack against you personally. Okay?
The problem is that Sassyt's views are religious dogma and no physical evidence will satisfy her.
As we increase education and access to the new ideas and the internet. You will see fewer and fewer fundamentalist.
Also SassyT christians come to atheists forums as well and are often very rude.
EvilBible.com Discussion Forum • View topic - Why do so many christians come here?
Maybe that's why I don't mind discussing this with rational people, because my beliefs aren't as "set in stone" as others.
I've said many times that I do believe in God, but not the bible and not church, so that makes me possibly the strangest believer in this group.
I have no problem talking with people who don't believe, in fact I have many friends on this site and off that are atheists.
I do have a problem with people who only want to fight, name call and make fun of others beliefs, those are the people I butt heads with, because I don't like their attitude, it has nothing to do with their beliefs.
Michealb, I know that I could have a rational discussion with you, and most of the other non believers on this site, it's just a few people who ruin it for everyone.
In all fairness, if anyone should get off this thread it's probably me, I'm not a Christian, nor am I an atheist, I am what I am and believe what I believe and I'm never met anyone with the same beliefs I have.
[QUOTE]You can say Creation is religion if you want to that is your opionion and I will not argue with that... As I have said before Creation is not Science niether is the Theory of evolution. The essence of the scientific method is measurement, observation and repeatability. Neither Creation nor Evolution are scientific in this sense. Neither one can be tested, for the simple reason that we cannot repeat history. The origin of the universe, life and mankind all took place in the past and cannot be studied or repeated in the laboratory. No one, in all human history has ever observed macro evolution taking place anywhere not even in the fossil record.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Therefore belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation.. both are concepts which believers "know" to be true but neither, up to the present, has been capable of conclusive irrefutable proof.
So if you say Creation is religion then I will also say Macro Evolution is religion since there is no known scientific basis MACRO evolution.
I find it irrational that all the Darwinists like yourself continue to claim Macro evolution is a fact and yet all of you have failed to provide the irrefutable evidence for it. All the so called evidence you have given me supports MICRO evolution. Yes a dog and wolg share a common ancestor (micro) but I am yet to see evidence to the leap of faith made by darwinists that the dog and the wolf also share a common ancestor with carots, bees, palm trees etc.Quote:
I have no problem with your viewing your belief in creationism as separate from your personal religious beliefs, but I think a lot of the confusion may arise from people assuming that your attacks on evolution are religious dogma, which leads to religious arguments. I don't think anyone enjoys those much.
It is frustrating for some of us to have to defend something that we view as proved (evolution) from someone like yourself who knows "just enough to be dangerous." That is, I feel macroevolution has been proved and I have presented some of the evidence in other threads.
So please I urge you to stop making empty claims. There is irrefutable evidence for Micro evolution.. we all know that occurs. It is observed in nature and in laboratories.. however there is zero evidence of a promordial soup where an amoeba crawls out and is supposedly the mother of all living things. These are BELIEFS not facts.
I will address this in a diffent post...Quote:
You have said you are not personally satisfied with any evidence for evolution--although I have to say that biology for the last 100 years IS satisfied, so this lack of satisfaction with the evidence is particular to you and other people who are mostly not practicing biologists. I have asked you what sort of evidence could satisfy you as to the truth of evolution, but if you answered, I didn't see it. I feel that a serious conversation about evolution would have to start with that, because I can't keep guessing what evidence might satisfy you. If your discussion of evolution is in fact a scientific discussion (and not religious), then it's incumbent on you to state your terms--that is, what would it take to prove that new species can form?
Well, I hope you don't! Your posts are great. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
I feel like I have my own beliefs and values, too; they just don't include a deity. Yours apparently do, which is fine with me. How could it be otherwise? I don't think anyone can object to what's in someone else's mind or heart. My take is that we can only legitimately object to what people do, and even then only when it affects others, not what people think or feel...
[Quote:
QUOTE=michealb]The problem is that Sassyt's views are religious dogma and no physical evidence will satisfy her.
Niether is there any physical evidence for Macro Evolution. So why you continue to claim it is a fact is beyond me.
I have been puzzling over Cred's seeming assertion that he has no beliefs at all, in the sense of faith based ideas accepted without any evidence. I have been wondering if it's possible for humans to only think and not have beliefs. If I have beliefs, what are they? I don't regard my attitudes towards science as faith based, since I think there is ample evidence that science is a productive process that leads to increases in knowledge over time. My acceptance of evolution is based on evidence, though ultimately one has to accept some amount of authority for any fact one accepts. A scientific article has been vetted by reviewers and a journal editor and I accept them as limited authorities, if not for the conclusions of the paper, at least for its authenticity as real science. Usually, that's a safe assumption.
But, anyway, perhaps I believe in other things in the same way that others believe in God. I'm not sure what those things are though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
Thanks asking, I feel the same way about your posts. :)
My belief is based on the way I was raised and the things I have gone through in my life, as well as the things my parents went through. I don't expect others to believe what I believe.
You are right, you cannot object to what's in someone else's mind or heart. A bad person is a bad person, whether they are Christian or atheist, it's not their beliefs that make them bad, or good. So, if you are a good person, a reasonable person, then I really don't care if you don't have the same beliefs I do, I will respect you for who and what you are, not for what you believe. :)
Unfortunately not all people can accept people with differing views or beliefs, they feel the need to force you to see their point of view, to believe what they believe, those are the people I usually end up fighting with. I'd love to be able to walk away from that, but I can't, I'm a stubborn person, I'll be the first to admit that. ;)
I'm sure he believes in himself, and there's no evidence to support that. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by asking
I don't think you are being fair in what you are saying... I don't take things personaly but when people make attacks like calling religious people "uneducated" "ignorant" and all the names they have been called be sure that I will say something about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
So apparently (correct me if I am wrong) you are taking sides with the people who make rude condescending remarks about religion which is fine, but don't say that this is AN ATHEIST forum as if it gives athiests the right to barade religion.
This is a RELIGION forum.. It is for discussing religion..
It is not an Atheist forum where angry athiests can come and give their Hate speech against religious people which is what this forum has turned into.
Unless if you are saying atheism is a religion. :confused:
Ok, it is a religion then. I'm OK with that. I don't care what *you* call it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
Yes! That's how I feel when all the Darwinists on this site can't accept that I don't believe in Darwinism. They feel the need to force their point of view on me and when I don't accept it they freak out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Sassy, you don't believe in Darwinism, and you freak out, so do you really expect them to not freak out when you poo poo on their beliefs? You are also trying to force your point of view on them. Don't you see that?Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
You really have to see that you are doing exactly what you say they are doing. If you cannot listen to someone's point of view without freaking out, then don't discuss that with them.
You started this thread, really, I want to know what you hoped to accomplish.
OMG, for the last time, yes, it's called a religious discussion board, but it was started for atheists, that way they don't have to come to the Christian discussion board to discuss their points of view. Do you understand now? Maybe the mods should rename it, would it be clear then?Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
As for name calling, honey, I've been called a lying b*tch, the intolerance brigade, a dirty liar, and many more, but it's only one person, you can't judge an entire group by one person.
Have you been reading some of the discussions? We are actually doing pretty well talking about our different points of view. You cannot let the past go and have to start a fight, not good. If it's discussion that you want, well that goes two ways, you have to be willing to listen to someone else's point of view without taking it personally.
As for the atheists turning this into a place for hate speech, honey they aren't the only ones.
Great now you're trying to get me to fight you, and I'm falling for it, bad Alty. Sassy, just treat everyone like you would want to be treated, then you'll do fine. Okay?
Me, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Sassy, how were you hoping this would go?
Asking you don't need to prove that New species do form because that is an irrefutable FACT.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
It is a FACT which constitutes Micro evolution however Macro evolution claims that NEW never seen before GENERA form. That is what I would like evidence for.
Random mutation do occur that may cause a variation; for example a random mutation in Human hair may creat hair of a different color or texture however is there any evidence that a random mutation in human can create feathers or tenticles? The answer to that question is NO. If macro evolution were true.. Scientist would be able to observe mutations that add "new" information to a species like my example; a baby born with feathers or tenticles instead of hair.
So please don't confuse micro with macro. Micro is a fact so new species do form however I am yet to see evidence that new never seen genera do form.(macro)
So my question is where is this so called evidence for MACRO evolution.
That's enough.
As this thread has seriously degenerated I am closing it.
If you have a problem with this PM me.
>Thread Closed<
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