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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

In some cases yes. In all cases no. You would have no way of even knowing that.

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Grievances disappear while we interact with them and while they interact with each other (in writing groups, book discussion groups, kids' storytimes, teen in-library activities, etc.). The library offers people a kinder, gentler world. We encourage them to take those same attitudes with them when they leave the library. And yes, we do find out in future comments that it indeed happens.

So back to where this library detour began:

"Yes, and whites need to reach out more. That's what I especially loved about my library job(s). That library was (is) a much-loved community center, the community being composed of every race and nationality you can think of. Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear."

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Grievances disappear while we interact with them and while they interact with each other (in writing groups, book discussion groups, kids' storytimes, teen in-library activities, etc.). The library offers people a kinder, gentler world.

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The first two paragraphs are probably closer to the truth. You had stated, "When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped." In some cases I imagine that's true. The same thing is true of schools I worked in, but we certainly were not able to solve everyone's grievances anymore than you were able to. If you insist on saying you were, then we have simply reached an impasse. I commend you for the culture you say prevailed there. It's a great objective, but no reasonable person would believe that you basically managed to solve everyone's grievances. Top psychiatrists don't have that level of success, and you and I are certainly not top psychiatrists.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's probably closer to the truth. You had stated, "When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped." In some cases I imagine that's true. The same thing is true of schools I worked in, but we certainly were not able to solve everyone's grievances anymore than you were able to. If you insist on saying you were, then we have simply reached an impasse. I commend you for the culture you say prevailed there. It's a great objective, but no reasonable person would believe that you basically managed to solve everyone's grievances. Top psychiatrists don't have that level of success, and you and I are certainly not top psychiatrists.

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Why are you adding words and false meanings to what I posted? Please stop!

Oh? How so?

Is this not what you said? " Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear."

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Oh? How so?

Is this not what you said? " Once someone opens the front door and walks inside, all grievances disappear."

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Yes,I wrote that. Then you wrote this:
"we certainly were not able to solve everyone's grievances anymore than you were able to."

***Now, put on your thinking cap. Did I say we were able to solve everyone's grievances?***

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When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped.

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Another quote from you. That's four times you said such a statement. Now you are backing off of it. Good for you.

I responded earlier, "But the things you described certainly don't indicate a dropping of grievances among everyone who just walked through the doors."

You replied, "When they walked through those library doors, grievances were dropped. I never heard or heard about, saw, or was involved in a heated argument, fistfight, shooting while inside library walls. And part of our training was learning how to avoid and prevent any outburst from occurring."

If you didn't mean "everyone's", then that would have been a good place to say so. Thankfully, you say it now.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Another quote from you. That's four times you said such a statement. Now you are backing off of it. Good for you.

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Not at all. Grievances were dropped, DISAPPEARED, when people walked into the library. I didn't say those grievances were remedied, cured, removed. They were put aside while people were in the library.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The truth here is obvious to everyone.

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What is truth? Is it talking snakes? A genocidal God? A monstrosity of a God who torments anyone who he doesn't like - for all eternity? Is this REALLY your role model for truth?

Yet you dwell on plagiarism, a habit you yourself are guilty of. You cannot own up and prove that you are not guilty. Everyone awaits your proof. Yet, it is not forthcoming. Everyone wonders where is the proof?

When you demand proof from others, you say it is fine to do. When others demand proof from you, you say it is ugly.

Time to end this nonsense of your interminable silly chit-chat. Provide the proof asked for and move on to the serious issue re white evangelicals. Being yourself a white evangelical, your need to obfuscate is obvious.

That truth is obvious to everyone.

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Not at all. Grievances were dropped, DISAPPEARED, when people walked into the library. I didn't say those grievances were remedied, cured, removed. They were put aside while people were in the library.

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Fair enough. You can't see into their hearts, as it turns out, but you did maintain an orderly library. Good for you.

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"Yes, and whites need to reach out more. That's what I especially loved about my library job(s). That library was (is) a much-loved community center, the community being composed of every race and nationality you can think of.

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I would say EVERYONE needs to reach out more. Your Lutheran church seems to be quite unsuccessful in this endeavor, as do, to be fair, most churches, black, white, or otherwise. It is a difficult issue. Exactly why that is true, I don't know.

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That truth is obvious to everyone.

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Yes indeed, it is. I document. You toss around opinions.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I would say EVERYONE needs to reach out more.

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And that's what libraries, composed of staff who are not only white but every color people come in, have as their reason for being -- and thus find connection opportunities for patrons and visitors of every race, creed, and color.

So why didn't you employ that idea in the lily-white Lutheran Church?

Would you say that all Christian churches should be committed to at least attempting to reach as many people groups as possible? If so, are you a member of such a church?

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So why didn't you employ that idea in the lily-white Lutheran Church?

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We did with the effort called "Each One Reach One." The Lutheran Church isn't lily white.

The Lutheran church is about 94% white. "Each one reach one" apparently did not result in reaching non-whites.

At any rate, having worked in schools that contained all sorts of combinations of ethnic groups, including Native Americans, and all sorts of income groups from inner-city kids to children from wealthy homes, I can tell you that racial harmony with children is not terribly difficult in terms of getting along, but in terms of forming long-term, inter-racial friendships, it is much more difficult.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Would you say that all Christian churches should be committed to at least attempting to reach as many people groups as possible? If so, are you a member of such a church?

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That's why Lutheran churches often have the adjective "evangelical" in their name, referring to Jesus' Great Commission in Matthew 28:19-20.

So do many other churches. It seems to have resulted in wonderful results in Africa or Central America, but not so much in reaching non-whites in America. It seems to be a difficult problem. So I guess I'm asking if you are involved in a church that is presently breaking those racial barriers in the same way you say your library did.

I might add that back in the 80's and 90's I was involved in a local church that was very successful in having a "mixed" congregation. We didn't really do anything unusual other than to commit to preaching the Gospel to everyone, inviting everyone to church, and welcoming everyone who came. It was, however, very much the exception rather than the rule.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So I guess I'm asking if you are involved in a church that is presently breaking those racial barriers in the same way you say your library did.

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My library didn't break any racial barriers. The community was, and still is, a little united nations. And I'm no longer involved in church activities, am busy preparing for my journey to heaven.

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My library didn't break any racial barriers. The community was, and still is, a little united nations.

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I wonder if the churches reflect that.

Like I said earlier, schools show the same diversity as far as students and teachers talking and getting along, but once they leave the school and go home, the racial divides tend to show back up.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I wonder if the churches reflect that.

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Christian churches? In this area, there are many churches, mosques, and worship centers to give guidance and opportunities for sharing one's beliefs.

My Sikh and Muslim and even agnostic coworkers always reached out to and welcomed and happily helped library patrons and visitors.

Sorry. I thought you were a Christian.

Your Sikh, Muslim, and agnostic coworkers will not be saved by their works. Either that, or Luther was wrong.

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Sorry. I thought you were a Christian.

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What have I said that makes you think otherwise?

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Your Sikh, Muslim, and agnostic coworkers will not be saved by their works. Either that, or Luther was wrong.

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You won't be saved by your works either.