Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Evasion returneth.

---

How so? I answered. Soldiers are innocent people.

I have been asked to justify my belief that the Bible is God's word. Now that's an interesting task. I'm making a Word doc to explain my position, so I thought that to keep this from becoming a text field far too long to discuss, I would present one paragraph at a time and see what kind of response comes forward. Here's the first one which I think is a fascinating question. Given the frequently forlorn history of trying to get forthright answers to questions here (refer above), I am not particularly hopeful, but we'll see.

"The interesting question to begin with is this. For the skeptic, what would be necessary to cause that person to believe the proposition that the Bible is actually God’s word? Perhaps it would be nothing short of a dramatic angelic visitation, or a direct vision of God himself. Barring that, the committed skeptic would have to think long and hard about what sort of evidence it would take to sway that person’s thinking in the direction of accepting the proposition that the Bible is actually the Word of God."

Can you not accept that some have less need for scripture, because they have dialog with a God they understand? Some just are not looking for a shepherd to follow blindly without question, and are hardly committed skeptics, but already have a path to follow. Salvation is but the path of a life journey, with faith as the guide. I have no problem with people who seek a shepherd. Do you have a problem with people who don't?

I'm not sure what you mean by "accept". If you mean can I be that person's friend and have meaningful dialogue with him/her, then absolutely I can. If you mean do I accept their position as being sensible, then the answer is no. There is no such thing as every person getting to have his or her own personal god(s). If the Bible is genuinely God's word, and if Jesus was genuinely God in the flesh and was who He said He was, then we ignore all of that to our own peril. If the Bible is not God's word, and if Jesus is not who He said He was, then we need to set the Bible on a shelf and forget it, or perhaps regard as an interesting work of fiction on the level of Ivanhoe. I don't see a middle ground.

Quote:

---

Do you have a problem with people who don't?

---

It makes no difference what I do, or don't, have a problem with. I'm not the Judge of the whole earth. If the Bible is true, then you have Someone much more significant than me to deal with. If the Bible is not true, then we're all on our own and good luck with that.

That's fine, I accept your choices as yours, whether I agree or not, or whether you agree or not. I don't seek salvation through scripture or the words of man, but through the journey which is often like walking a straight line through a hurricane. Doesn't mean I have all the answers, but I know where to direct my questions, and listen to the answers, and try to understand them as imperfect as I am. I cannot answer your IF's though, or how you go about getting the answers, but I can say take it straight to the source of your FAITH, and you will get your answer.

Makes no difference what others do, just what I do!

Quote:

---

but I can say take it straight to the source of your FAITH, and you will get your answer.

---

But you have no real ground to stand upon in saying that. It is simply what you feel to be true. Millions of others have millions of other ideas. That is a strange god you follow, being one who cannot seem to make his reality known in any concrete way. He would seem to be a question mark followed by more question marks. But as you said, the choice is yours.

I have just LEARNED to LISTEN to what the God that I have a personal relationship with tells me. ALL my questions get answered. I accept you may not understand that, and it's okay. I don't NEED your confirmation, and I am sure you don't need mine.

Does everyone else get to do that as well? What if this god tells them the exact opposite of what he tells you? Who would be right? If your god tells you to be nonviolent, but their god told them to punch you in the mouth, would you be OK with that? Who would be right?

I don't have to be okay with anything or anybody to deal with it best I can. What about you?

That's true as is the truth that people can simply dodge meaningful questions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's true as is the truth that people can simply dodge meaningful questions.

---

As Pilate asked, "What is truth?"

Is your truth truer than Tal's or mine or Athos's?

Quote:

---

As Pilate asked, "What is truth?"

---

Jesus said He was. Do you agree with that?

Quote:

---

Is your truth truer than Tal's or mine or Athos's?

---

My truth? Of course not. That's why I don't appeal to some "truth" that came from within me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

That's true as is the truth that people can simply dodge meaningful questions.

---

Do you feel I have dodged your questions? Or is it you don't understand my responses?

My question. "Does everyone else get to do that as well? What if this god tells them the exact opposite of what he tells you? Who would be right? If your god tells you to be nonviolent, but their god told them to punch you in the mouth, would you be OK with that? Who would be right?"

Your reply. "I don't have to be okay with anything or anybody to deal with it best I can. What about you?" There is no planet in the universe where your reply would be considered as an answer to my question. So yeah, that was a dodge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Jesus said He was. Do you agree with that?

---

Of course! I'm a Christian, baptized when I was three weeks old and have dedicated my life to service to others in His name.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

What if this god tells them the exact opposite of what he tells you? Who would be right? If your god tells you to be nonviolent, but their god told them to punch you in the mouth, would you be OK with that?

---

God doesn't talk directly to people. Sounds like two schizophrenics hearing voices.

I'm glad you answered in the affirmative, and that being the case, I would think you accept His statement that, "Unless you believe that I (Jesus) am He, you will die in your sins." Yes?

You say you were baptized at three weeks, but at what point did you repent of your sins and determine to follow and trust in Christ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'm glad you answered in the affirmative, and that being the case, I would think you accept His statement that, "Unless you believe that I (Jesus) am He, you will die in your sins." Yes?

You say you were baptized at three weeks, but at what point did you repent of your sins and determine to follow and trust in Christ.

---

Why are you quizzing me on this open board -- or at all? Next, you'll want to know how many and which sins I've committed during my lifetime.

Evasive yet again. You asked me two questions. I didn't protest and complain that you were, "quizzing me on this open board." I simply answered the questions. Why won't you? What are you afraid of? I've noticed for a long time that you are smart enough to know when a question might pose a danger to your liberal ideology, so you dodge them. Is that it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

You asked me two questions.

---

What two questions on which post#?

Quote:

---

What are you afraid of? I've noticed for a long time that you are smart enough to know when a question might pose a danger to your liberal ideology, so you dodge them. Is that it?

---

Putdown, veiled threat, acccusations -- very Christian of you....

Let's get back to the salvation topic on this board.