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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Of course not, but I can't receive communion, it's not allowed, I've never received communion in a Catholic church. Still the old feelings, the feeling of not being accepted, not fitting in.

It was a relief when the service was over.

I find it strange that even after all this time the church can still bring back all the negative feelings I had as a child. I know it was my imagination, but while we were there today, I felt like every eye was on me and that they were all secretly saying "you don't belong, get out". But I knew all the words, knew all the motions, but no matter what I still don't belong.

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Wow! I went to my niece's big Catholic wedding a few years ago and I felt exactly the same. I would not dream of receiving communion. To me, that's a big deal. I felt the whole time that I did not belong. I love beautiful churches, but I never feel that I belong in one.

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Originally Posted by KBC

Can we see eye to eye in the religions we subscribe to(or lack of religion)?

NO,look at this thread and see how idealists believe and cause arguments to arise?

KBC

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I hope you return. I am interested in your thoughts and feelings and I think others here are too.
Asking

Alty,

I have broken almost every 10 commandment... I was going to put a lol in there but truth? It ain't funny. No. you don't go to hell for it... no one could keep the Law perfectly except Jesus and he took our place and punishment. That is the gospel or the good news.

Alty, I would also like to say that I think I DO understand a little what you believe. I understand that you believe in God and even MY GOD. You just don't believe that the way YOU SEE he is portrayed in the Bible.. or by Christians is his true character. You see him as personable and loving, forgiving and not at all intolerant ( for lack of a better word) to any path that is taken to get to him. Am I right or am I all washed up?

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No. The commandments are guides to teach us the right thing to do. The center of each is love but God knows we humans don't always understand how to give unconditional love, so the commandments are like Mom would say to her young kids, "Don't do this" and "Don't do that." We don't hear a lot about unconditional love until we meet Jesus in the New Testament (although there's lots of it in the Old Testament -- you just have to look a little harder for it most of the time).


No. The statues are reminders of Bible stories. In fact, in the medieval church, because parishioners didn't know how to read, there was lots of statuary and stained glass windows. The priest or minister would point to various objects and pictures to help people understand, to illustrate his sermon or homily. The statues aren't there to be worshipped. They are a learning tool.

My church has a huge stained glass window behind the altar. The center is a picture of Jesus the Good Shepherd with several sheep at his feet. The pastor might preach about Jesus as our shepherd and that we are his sheep, and what that all means. All around on that same picture window are small groups of people and things from various Bible stories--Adam and Eve in the Garden, the 12 apostles, Noah's ark, and many other scenes taken from the Bible. Our pastor said he can tell the entire story of the Bible and salvation by walking from one side of this huge window to the other.

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Hmmm? There are so many pictures and types of Jesus in the Old testament. There are even types of the Lord and the Church... i.e. Isaac and Rebeckah. We aren't to teke verses out of context... but surely we can see the plan of salvation all through the Bible.. genesis all the way to revelation. The problem with Christains to day and I HARP on this I know... it they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God. It becomes a mess and then we fight amongst ourselves and unbelievers watch and want no part of it. Who can blame them?

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Originally Posted by classyT

hmmm? there are so many pictures and types of Jesus in the Old testament. There are even types of the Lord and the Church...i.e. Isaac and Rebeckah. We aren't to teke verses out of context...but surely we can see the plan of salvation all thru the Bible..genesis all the way to revelation. The problem with Christains to day and I HARP on this i know...it they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God. It becomes a mess and then we fight amongst ourselves and unbelievers watch and want no part of it. Who can blame them?

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I like the sense of this paragraph. But I don't understand one part. Is there a typo here, because I didn't understand:
" The problem with Christains to day[ ]... it they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God. "

Just want to make sure I understood. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by classyT

hmmm? there are so many pictures and types of Jesus in the Old testament. There are even types of the Lord and the Church...i.e. Isaac and Rebeckah. We aren't to teke verses out of context...but surely we can see the plan of salvation all thru the Bible..genesis all the way to revelation. The problem with Christains to day and I HARP on this i know...it they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God. It becomes a mess and then we fight amongst ourselves and unbelievers watch and want no part of it. Who can blame them?

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My point was to explain why there are stained glass windows and so many other symbolic objects in a church, whether it be Christian or Jewish. Even the absence of them in, say, the Christian Science church means something.

I don't know what point you are trying to make with regard to my post. It seems to have nothing to do with your conclusion.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Alty,

I have broken almost every 10 commandment...I was gonna put a lol in there but truth? it ain't funny. No. you don't go to hell for it...no one could keep the Law perfectly except Jesus and he took our place and punishment. That is the gospel or the good news.

Alty, I would also like to say that i think I DO understand a little what you believe. I understand that you believe in God and even MY GOD. you just don't believe that the way YOU SEE he is portrayed in the Bible..or by Christians is his true character. You see him as personable and loving, forgiving and not at all intolerant ( for lack of a better word) to any path that is taken to get to him. am i right or am i all washed up?

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ClassyT, you're not all washed up. :)

I haven't ever been able to put into words my belief in a way that others would completely understand. I say I'm a Deist because that's the closest actual term for what I believe, but it's not 100% accurate. At least being a Deist gives me a group to belong to (not that I need a group) because for a long time I felt very much alone in my beliefs and couldn't accurately describe them.

The only part I don't really agree with is that I believe that it doesn't matter what path we take to get to him. You see, I don't think that God would punish anyone, even those who never accept Him.

I look upon God as the parent of us all. We are all his children. If one of my children does something to upset me, I won't disown him/her, I won't cut off all communication and pretend he/she doesn't exist. I would love that child anyway.

So, if God exists, if he is the father of us all, then I don't think that he'd punish any one of us, even if we don't believe in Him.

I really just believe that you have to be the best person you can be. Be kind to your fellow man. Think of others, not just yourself. Those are the things I think that God looks at in the end, those are the things that are important. Of course we all sin, we're human after all, but asking for forgiveness isn't enough, especially if you continue to commit the same sin over and over again.

Does any of this make sense or am I just babbling? ;)

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Originally Posted by asking

Wow! I went to my niece's big Catholic wedding a few years ago and I felt exactly the same. I would not dream of receiving communion. To me, that's a big deal. I felt the whole time that I did not belong. I love beautiful churches, but I never feel that I belong in one.

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I'm originally from Germany and I have to say, Germany has some of the oldest most beautiful churches around. The architecture, the use of space, everything is just breathtaking.

The last time I was in Germany was in 2001. My Mom died three days after we arrived. Going to see her family was her final wish, she made the trip but unfortunately died before she got to see anyone.

We went to Rothernburg ob der Tauber (the town I was born in) and went to the church there. It truly is a beautiful church. I lit a candle for both my father and mother while I was there.

I love to visit the old churches, I just don't feel comfortable going to a service in one. It's not for me, never will be.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

No. The commandments are guides to teach us the right thing to do.

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Yes, but according to Romans 3:23 - no one but Jesus has ever followed them. The purpose of the law is given in Galatians 3:

Gal 3:19-25
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
NKJV

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Originally Posted by asking

Yes. I would say so. I don't believe anyone should say to you that there is absolutely no God, because (1) it's dismissive and unkind and (2) no one can ever know that.

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I agree that no one can ever know it, but I am not offended because someone disagrees. What I would like though, is that when they do disagree, if they would validate their claims, or identify it as their opinion.

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The comments I have seen were that there is no physical evidence for the existence of God, not that God does not exist. I have said, and I have seen other people say, that Belief in God is a matter of Faith not physical evidence. That's a different argument.

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There is a great deal of evidence. Some folk just reject it out of hand.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

So, if God exists, if he is the father of us all, then I don't think that he'd punish any one of us, even if we don't believe in Him.

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As a parent, are you saying that you NEVER punish any of your children?

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Originally Posted by asking

I like the sense of this paragraph. But I don't understand one part. Is there a typo here, because i didn't understand:
" The problem with Christains to day[ ]...it they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God. "

Just want to make sure I understood. Thanks!

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Yep.. typo... I'm horrible with typing.. the problem with christians today IS they do not know... and so and so forth. Sorry :(

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Originally Posted by classyT

yep..typo....i'm horrible with typing..the problem with christians today IS they do not know.....and so and and so forth. sorry :(

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Please retype the ENTIRE sentence!! It still doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Please retype the ENTIRE sentence!!! It still doesn't make sense.

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It makes perfect sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

It makes perfect sense to me.

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"The problem with Christains to day[ ]... is they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God."

No, look.

I said you shouldn't insist there IS a god for a fact. Just simply say you BELIEVE there is a god. What's wrong with saying you believe, it is a belief anyway. You don't need to annoy atheists by saying YES THERE IS A GOD YES FOR SURE FOR FACT THERE ISSS!! Say you believe, like they believe there isn't. Kayyy?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Yes, but according to Romans 3:23 - no one but Jesus has ever followed them.

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Dr. Phil said that "yes, but" equals "no."

We haven't gotten to that point (your Bible proof) yet, Tom. Please go with the flow.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

"The problem with Christains to day[ ]...is they do not know how to rightly divide to Word of God."

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She was making reference to this passage:

2 Tim 2:15
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
NKJV

I am surprised that you are having such difficulty with it.

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Dr. Phil said that "yes, but" equals "no."

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Follow Dr. Phil, if you wish and let me know in eternity how that works for you.

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Originally Posted by marriaget

I said you shouldn't insist there IS a god for a fact.

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The truth is that there IS a God - and YES that is a FACT!