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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

For many centuries "christians" destroyed those who were non-christian by burning them. But not all non-christians!

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There were multitudes of Christians murdered by others who claimed to be Christians also. Read "Foxes Book of Martyrs" for example.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

They consider the cracker/wafer to be God or a god. I would oppose doing it to their cracker/wafer simply out of respect for the people, not the cracker/wafer. Further, I do not consider the Bible to be God or a god, but rather it is the written word of God. One cannot destroy His words by putting a nail through a book. Thus, while it would show disrespect for my faith and my God, all they are doing is damaging paper, and perhaps wasting some of their own money to buy the book. I recognize that there are many, indeed the majority, who do not recognize or accept the God that I worship, and would take it with that perspective. I would therefore not be personally offended and would remain open to sharing the gospel with him. Afterall, God came to earth manifest in the flesh, and was nailed to the cross by those who rejected Him, and what was His response?

Luke 23:34
Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."
NKJV

Would I destroy a Bible? If I have a Bible which is old and no longer able to serve any useful purpose (pages torn and falling out, maybe many are missing), why not? If however, it is still useful, and I have several, I would rather give it to someone else to make use of it for the same reason that I would do so with anything else which may still serve a useful purpose.

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I believe he was trying to get people to recognize that a cracker is just a cracker, even if it symbolizes something else. His point is that he has no qualms about sticking a nail through a cracker, and any offense people feel about it is their own problem, because it is just a cracker. Like he says, no symbol should be held as sacred.

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

I believe he was trying to get people to recognize that a cracker is just a cracker, even if it symbolizes something else. His point is that he has no qualms about sticking a nail through a cracker, and any offense people feel about it is their own problem, because it is just a cracker. Like he says, no symbol should be held as sacred.

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Agreed. But Catholics do not believe that the wafer/cracker symbolizes God - they believe that it is God (Jesus), and worship it as such.

I also would have no qualms whatsoever about sticking a nail through the wafer/cracker, even if it came directly from the priest's blessing. My opposition would be simply a concern that if I were to do so in front of one or more Catholics, it may cause an offense that may make them to be closed to listening to the gospel if they are not yet saved. In such a case, I would not want to see a person end up in hell for this reason. There are times when offense is necessary, but I don't see any reason why it would be appropriate in this case.

On the other hand, I think that it would be interesting if a priest would submit a sample of a "consecrated" wafer to a lab for chemical and/or DNA analysis. That would prove once and for all if it is truly flesh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

There were multitudes of Christians murdered by others who claimed to be Christians also.

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That may be so, but does not invalidate what I stated :

One can burn a book and destroy with the book also the letters. But not all books!

For many centuries "christians" destroyed those who were non-christian by burning them. But not all non-christians!

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

That may be so, but does not invalidate what I stated :

One can burn a book and destroy with the book also the letters. But not all books!

For many centuries "christians" destroyed those who were non-christian by burning them. But not all non-christians!

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I was not attempting to invalidate what you said. Read again.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I was not attempting to invalidate what you said. Read again.

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I read properly the first time... Do you now blame me for many "christians" to be a murderous lot?

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I read properly the first time ... Do you now blame me for many "christians" to be a murderous lot?

:rolleyes:

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John,

You seem to be trying to create a problem where there is none. I blamed you for nothing - what exactly is your point? Or are you just trying to once again take yet another thread off track?

Tommy Smith aka toms777 :

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You seem to be trying to create a problem where there is none. I blamed you for nothing - what exactly is your point? Or are you just trying to once again take yet another thread off track?

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Complete nonsense and you know that!! It was you who posted :

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

One cannot destroy His words by putting a nail through a book.

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To which I replied :
One can burn a book and destroy with the book also the letters. But not all books!
For many centuries "christians" destroyed those who were non-christian by burning them. But not all non-christians!

And you also posted :

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Afterall, God came to earth manifest in the flesh, and was nailed to the cross by those who rejected Him...

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To which I replied :
That is what you BELIEVE !

All the rest were reactions to your onesided remarks.
Seems more that YOU are the only one who wants to run this discussion off track because you go nowhere with your "arguments"...

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

One can burn a book and destroy with the book also the letters. But not all books!
For many centuries "christians" destroyed those who were non-christian by burning them. But not all non-christians!

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You answered my question - you are trying to hijack the thread. You will note that I have not disagreed with you, I stated so specifically, I put up a post which supported what you said (and even went further pointing out that many who claimed to be "christians" also murdered multitudes of Christians, and yet you keep spamming the thread with this post, and put up comments attacking me as though we are in disagreement. - What is it? - do you want confrontation so badly that you cannot handle agreement?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You answered my question - you are trying to hijack the thread.

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No Tommy Smith aka Toms777 aka Tj3 :
No, I do not have any intention to do so. The only one of us two with some hidden agenda is you.
As you always have, knowing you already for so many years...

Now if you REALLY want to get back to the thread : do not react to this.

:rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

No Tommy Smith aka Toms777 aka Tj3 :
No, I do not have any intention to do so. The only one of us two with some hidden agenda is you.
As you always have, knowing you already for so many years ....

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Still playing games I see.

Now let's try to get this thread back on track.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capuchin

I believe he was trying to get people to recognize that a cracker is just a cracker, even if it symbolizes something else. His point is that he has no qualms about sticking a nail through a cracker, and any offense people feel about it is their own problem, because it is just a cracker. Like he says, no symbol should be held as sacred.

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Agreed. But Catholics do not believe that the wafer/cracker symbolizes God - they believe that it is God (Jesus), and worship it as such.

I also would have no qualms whatsoever about sticking a nail through the wafer/cracker, even if it came directly from the priest's blessing. My opposition would be simply a concern that if I were to do so in front of one or more Catholics, it may cause an offense that may make them to be closed to listening to the gospel if they are not yet saved. In such a case, I would not want to see a person end up in hell for this reason. There are times when offense is necessary, but I don't see any reason why it would be appropriate in this case.

On the other hand, I think that it would be interesting if a priest would submit a sample of a "consecrated" wafer to a lab for chemical and/or DNA analysis. That would prove once and for all if it is truly flesh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Now let's try to get this thread back on track.



Agreed. But Catholics do not believe that the wafer/cracker symbolizes God - they believe that it is God (Jesus), and worship it as such.

I also would have no qualms whatsoever about sticking a nail through the wafer/cracker, even if it came directly from the priest's blessing. My opposition would be simply a concern that if I were to do so in front of one or more Catholics, it may cause an offense that may make them to be closed to listening to the gospel if they are not yet saved. In such a case, I would not want to see a person end up in hell for this reason. There are times when offense is necessary, but I don't see any reason why it would be appropriate in this case.

On the other hand, I think that it would be interesting if a priest would submit a sample of a "consecrated" wafer to a lab for chemical and/or DNA analysis. That would prove once and for all if it is truly flesh.

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Tom, Capuchin, et al:

As soon as Capuchin referenced Meyers, I could not continue in good conscience; especially with the comments highlight above. I found it to be sacrilegious.


JoeT

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Tom, Capuchin, et al:
As soon as Capuchin referenced Meyers, I could not continue in good conscience; especially with the comments highlight above. I found it to be sacrilegious.
JoeT

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You may consider the wafer/cracker to be God, but I do not. Regardless, you apparently did not read that I said:

"I would oppose doing it to their cracker/wafer simply out of respect for the people, not the cracker/wafer."

And

"My opposition would be simply a concern that if I were to do so in front of one or more Catholics, it may cause an offense that may make them to be closed to listening to the gospel if they are not yet saved. In such a case, I would not want to see a person end up in hell for this reason. There are times when offense is necessary, but I don't see any reason why it would be appropriate in this case."

You can believe what you wish, but you cannot control the faith of others. While recognizing that differences in beliefs will exist, you need to be prepared to accept those differences. You may also wish to consider how you feel at these comments when you are posting comments about the faith of others.

JoeT777,
Yes you DID answer it and well.
I also answered Galvison's question.
Apparently He does not understand the answer, no did not see or read them or just rejects the fact that Jesus did speak literally.
I get that opinion from Galviston saying that no one answered his question when in fact both you and I did.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

You may consider the wafer/cracker to be God, but I do not. Regardless, you apparently did not read that I said:

"I would oppose doing it to their cracker/wafer simply out of respect for the people, not the cracker/wafer."

And

"My opposition would be simply a concern that if I were to do so in front of one or more Catholics, it may cause an offense that may make them to be closed to listening to the gospel if they are not yet saved. In such a case, I would not want to see a person end up in hell for this reason. There are times when offense is necessary, but I don't see any reason why it would be appropriate in this case."

You can believe what you wish, but you cannot control the faith of others. While recognizing that differences in beliefs will exist, you need to be prepared to accept those differences. You may also wish to consider how you feel at these comments when you are posting comments about the faith of others.

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Don’t flatter yourself.


JoeT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Don’t flatter yourself.


JoeT

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It actually frightens me that some people are so controlled by their faith that they would refuse to put a nail through a piece of wheat flour. That's a dangerous type of control.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Don’t flatter yourself.


JoeT

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I didn't. But apparently you missed the point of what I said.

Bread is made from flour, water, and oil. A priest speaks some Latin words over it, thereby calling Jesus down from Heaven into the bread. It then becomes the body of Jesus Christ and is worshipped as such. To me (my opinion) this is idolatry. The priest made it and consecrated it and then declared it to be the object of worship. It must not be chewed, but swallowed whole.

Rom 10:6-9
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(KJV)

Man cannot call Jesus down from Heaven. He will return at the proper time as LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS, not as a wafer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Still playing games I see.

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And you keep hyjacking this topic with your fanaticism and personal aggression in support of your own wounded ego...

:D :rolleyes: :p :) ;) :D

.