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Originally Posted by Curlyben

What is it with America where people use legal action at the drop of a hat ???

Sorry to the American users here, but I am lost for words.
Does the phrase "common sense" mean nothing ?

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The ABA (American Bar Association) has a strong lobby ;)

The problem here is more a matter of people with money to burn. I'm reasonably sure this case will never see the inside of a court room. Its up to the judiciary to exercise the common sense and throw out the suit as being without merit. But as long as someone is willing to pay an attorney to file the suit (or find one who's fanaticism outweighs their common sense), taxpayer money will continue to be wasted on such garbage.

Scott<>

Good call

Txgreasemonkey,

Couldn't the same be said for evolution? That is, if you don't bother to understand it or study it then you'll never get it? I've read the bible, I went to catholic school, I've studied both sides.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

If everyone made their own assumptions then the book becomes anything to anyone, I can assume that Jesus slept with prostitutes because he kept company with them. See how it serves no end to imply a multitude of events that are not written?

BTW
This thread could easily boil down to a question of faith since faith is a belief that cannot be proven.

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Those who think that the Bible is open to all and any interpretation and that all these interpretations are all equally valid regaredless of how greatly they differ from one another do not understand the Bible and perhaps never will.

About assuming, I'm not assuming anything though when faced with the obviously ridiculous and the rational a reader is expected to choose the latter in preference to the former unless bias is his agenda. In any case, your accusation that no daughters of Adam are mentioned is false.

About Jesus, he condemned sexual immorality.
Anyone familiar with his teachings would never reach such a ridiculous conclusion.

BTW
I suggest that you apply the same skeptisism to your evolutionary ideas since they are
Based on preconceived notions, biased opinions, assumed causes, and educated conjecture.

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Originally Posted by Starman

I suggest that you apply the same skeptisism to your evolutionary ideas since they are
based on preconceived notions, biased opinions, assumed causes, and educated conjecture.

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Actually they are based on science (knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method ) which involves the publication and replication of findings by anyone who wishes to put the theories to the test.

(Reread your post - I'm assuming you mean "latter" instead of "former", if not then the sentence is quite funny) :)

All open for new input.
Enjoy

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Actually they are based on science (knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method ) which involves the publication and replication of findings by anyone who wishes to put the theories to the test.

(Reread your post - I'm assuming you mean "latter" instead of "former", if not then the sentence is quite funny) :)

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The scientific method of observation and experimentation is applied AFTER

The assumption that evolution is a fact and all evidence is then

Interpreted to fit the assumption my friend.

EVOLUTION IS A HOAX - DOCUMENTED!
By Dr. R. L. Hymers, Jr.
http://www.rlhymersjr.com/Online_Ser...ionIsAHoax.htm


And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (II Timothy 4:4).

BTW
Thanks for pointing out the typo.

If you want to be "blown away" take a look at Dr. Hugh Ross' website:

http://www.reasons.org/index.shtml

He's one of the most brilliant scientists in the world, who will answer many questions that people have and give you "Reasons to Believe." You can get lost in this website for days--truly fascinating!

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I agree with most of you. Adam & Eve is a creation story IMO. Told so that the creation of the world would make sense to people in an ancient culture who had little science or technology. Creation stories exist in every culture.

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said orange. Kind of hit it on the head.

Now you can be religious, and put faith into god, because its comforting, or because you want to go somewhere lovely after you die... but for whatever reason you are choosing to believe something that has no proof.

People who blindly follow, may do it to be "the most religious" that's fine, but when science comes along and proves something like evolution, to still blindly follow imo is down right closed minded. Now I can use your god against you and say, I'm sure "he/she" doesn't want you to be a close minded individual...

I think the problem with taking everything so literally, is that in time, society changes. We have multiple religions, so, if god created everyone, a large number of his beloved creations are going to go to "hell" simply for beliving in a different god. That's great for him.

Now, people can say that they believe adam and eve were the physical first humans on the planet, the only ones, and they can give their reason for this as "because god said so" but with that, I'm just going to ignore you. There is a time line to this planet, and just like keeping weather records different tests can be made to have an insite into the past. And evolution was found to be the way we were made. FACT. We came from a glob of goo. FACT. Everything around us has evolved. And adam and eve was just another one of those stories that was created to comfort people, who couldn't and didn't know what we do now.

Don't take things so literally. Us humans arnt that special, maybe that's why people believe in adam and eve, because they want to feel suppiriour to snails, well we were once there. :p

I wonder if snails have religion.

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Originally Posted by ndx

FACT. We came from a glob of goo.

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Actually, that's a theory--a hypotheses. There's been no proof, nor may there ever be, as to where we came from.

They run it back to as far as atoms bonding together to make compounds etc, which eventually made cells of somekind, and so on, and on. I guess when I said glob of goo it might not of been a glob, it might have been a blob or something, might not of been gooy either... The first living thing was the first thing that was able to reproduce. And when all those attoms combined, blabla, the procaryotic cell was born. Voilà!

When science can create a living thing from this so called pond scum of elements and CREATE life, not just reproduce a sample of something already living - then I would consider that theory.

There are so many possibilities we will never learn the truth

You know pumpkin, we know how to do it, but actually in practice is another matter, unfortunately. So, maybe you should consider it slightly ;)

Very well said! By a very attractive lady!

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Evolution has the fossil record, geology and science to back up their claim. Creationism has nothing but faith and belief. It's a "no brainer".

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In actuality, evolution does not have the fossil record to back it up; this is one of the major reasons that the issue is still largely debated.

Evolution is a Theory as is Creationism.

Talk about denial and "head in the sand" mentality. Creationists that deny the fossil record, geology and science are broadcasting their ignorance to the world. They deny the obvious. Since they can not prove any part of Creation the only thing they can do is attack Evolution.
Let's look at this debate without all the spin the creationists are putting out.
Now you can call it Creation, Intelligent Design, Scientific Creation or the next "catchy name" they use to get around a religious belief but that's exactly what is is, a religious belief and no matter how much "spin" you give it, belief can never convert to knowledge with being backed up by proof and facts.
The Creationists have tapdanced around the word God in their attempt to remove religion from the equation but tell me. What exactly is the Creator? Who was the "Designer" behind "Intelligent Design"? If not God then perhaps God has competition in the design field.
Which opens a whole new can of worms. More then one God out there?
Try as hard as they might, until they can prove the existence of God and can show proof that he designed humans and everything else, Creationism will still remain a failed attempt by the religious right to insert religion into the public school system by way of science classes.

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Originally Posted by Starman

EVOLUTION IS A HOAX - DOCUMENTED!
by Dr. R. L. Hymers, Jr.

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That evolution is a hoax is documented in this article less than the documentation supporting Evolution. I point out that this article is from a religious sermon. I would assume there is some bias there.

Yes Evolution is a theory. But it is the ONLY theory that fits all the scientific evidence that currently exists. I'm not going to go into what that evidence is, one can do their own research.

The fact that it fits scientific fact is why its taught to the extent it is. The fact that it is so widely accepted even though it has never been conclusively proven is because it so neatly fits the body of scientific evidence.

I don't believe that Evolution directly contradicts Creationism, only a strict interpretation of the Bible. But Evolution explains scientific fact in a way the Bible fails to.

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Originally Posted by ScottGem

That evolution is a hoax is documented in this article less than the documentation supporting Evolution. I point out that this article is from a religious sermon. I would assume there is some bias there.

Yes, Evolution is a theory. But it is the ONLY theory that fits all the scientific evidence that currently exists. I'm not going to go into what that evidence is, one can do their own research.

The fact that it fits scientific fact is why its taught to the extent it is. The fact that it is so widely accepted even though it has never been conclusively proven is because it so neatly fits the body of scientific evidence.

I don't believe that Evolution directly contradicts Creationism, only a strict interpretation of the Bible. But Evolution explains scientific fact in a way the Bible fails to.

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Please keep in mind that everything you believe about evolution comes from from pro evolutionary sources. So if I were to follow your logic, then I would be also very justified in suspecting considerable bias from any evolutionary source you might use to support your belief.

I find that evolutionists assume evolution and then interpret everything they find in that context. You see it differently. So I guess we simply disagree in that area.

There are respected scintists who don't believe in the evolution theory.

Excerpt:
Dr. Robert Gentry (nuclear physicist)
Dr. Robert V. Gentry is a nuclear physicist who worked 13 years for the Oakridge National Laboratory as a guest scientist. During the time he worked there, he was recognized as the world's leading authority in his area of research. It is interesting to note that when he began his research, he was an evolutionist. Today, Dr. Gentry is a fully convinced young earth creation scientist.

World's Greatest Creation Scientists. Sponsor:
http://www.creationists.org/outstanding.html

Not all scientists share your belief in the teaching of evolution in schools.

Creation scientists answer back
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1979840.stm


Evidence For Intelligent Design -
Phenomenal discoveries in the last few decades have unequivocally demonstrated that living systems are machines at the deepest, molecular level.
http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/ev...ent-design.htm
BTW
Not all evolutionists are atheists.

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Originally Posted by speedball1

Talk about denial and "head in the sand" mentality. Creationists that deny the fossil record, geology and science are broadcasting their ignorance to the world. They deny the obvious. Since they can not prove any part of Creation the only thing they can do is attack Evolution.
Let's look at this debate without all the spin the creationists are putting out.
Now you can call it Creation, Intelligent Design, Scientific Creation or the next "catchy name" they use to get around a religious belief but that's exactly what is is, a religious belief and no matter how much "spin" you give it, belief can never convert to knowledge with being backed up by proof and facts.
The Creationists have tapdanced around the word God in their attempt to remove religion from the equation but tell me. What exactly is the Creator? Who was the "Designer" behind "Intelligent Design"? If not God then perhaps God has competition in the design field.
Which opens a whole new can of worms. More then one God out there?
Try as hard as they might, until they can prove the existence of God and can show proof that he designed humans and everything else, Creationism will still remain a failed attempt by the religious right to insert religion into the public school system by way of science classes.

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Comments on this post
Rickj disagrees: They're both theories, period.

Then all ypu have to do is prove your claim. Hey! One little bit of physical evidence to back up the belief that God said "poof" and there we are, complete with one man, one woman a garden and a snake. What's that? You don't have any proof? No divine sign? No heavenly revelation to set this debate to rest? You deny that the fossil record exsists? And you do that because? I can only give you a explanation the a fundamentalist protesting outside the clinic where I worked gave me in all seriousness. He said. " Satan put those bones there to confuse us" They can't be real because the earth is only about 5000 years old. So there is no fossil record".
If that's what you're telling me Rick? The fossil record going back millions of years and clearly showing mans raise from upright ape to modern man is some kind of a fabrication?
Like I say. Having no way to prove their claim of Creation, Intelligent Design, Scientific Creation, ( take your pick) the only recourse a Creationist has is to attempt to attack evolution which doesn't back up the creation claim one little bit even if it could be proved that evolution never happened. The physical evidence seems to favor evolution while we're still waiting for any physical evidence from the Creation side of the fence.
"God said it! I believe it! And that settles it!" just don't cut it with me some how.