I used to be one. I finally got past the milk and into the meat of the Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
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I used to be one. I finally got past the milk and into the meat of the Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Apparently you don't believe in infant baptism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson
Um, no. For one thing, the new person should by now have perused the board enough to know what's going on. For another, I never said anything was "prohibited and ridiculed," and I did neither. I meant every word. And lastly, there are those of us who have poured our life's blood into studying the language, setting, context and everything else about the Bible for multiple decades, wrestling with those questions I mentioned and doing our best to maintain intellectual honesty. The suggestion that it's all nothing more than a matter of steps A, B and C to do whatever, and you either believe or you don't, is a slap in the face to our life's work. And I meant every word of my prayer for him/her. Because it WILL happen, and unless s/he really starts to understand the incredible grayness that permeates our Bible, s/he WILL stumble, and possibly fall. I prefer not to see that happen to anyone. Hence my heartfelt warning. I'm not getting my nose out of joint over the slap in my face; I'm big and ugly enough to deal with that. But I've seen first-hand what happens when that nice little house of cards gets blown over. It ain't a pretty sight, and I'd rather not see anybody else have to go through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ;
How can a baby understand who Jesus is? I do believe in dedicating infants to the Lord. There comes a time in everyone's life where they become cognitive to the things of God, at what age that is probably different to every individual. No one can confess Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Please Dave, in WHAT world is this comment not ridicule?:Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
"Wow. What's the view like from that simplistic world of yours?"
I don't believe the bible is gray. Many people don't. Deal with it.
I am peacefully and respectfully telling you of how God sent Jesus to die for YOU. God didn't have to do any such thing. He created us to be free moral agents , not robots.
As a Christian , it is my duty to tell of what God has done for all of mankind through Jesus. It is not my desire or intent to force you to do anything you don't want to do. Becoming a Christian has to be something you WANT to do.
No love of any kind can be forced on another person or it isn't true love. There are no threats , no arguments , no name calling , no ridiculing , no air of superiority. Just my words about a loving creator God who wants you to accept his son so that you can spend eternity with him.
God will accept ANYONE no matter what they have done if they truly repent. God doesn't care what you have done or what kind of life you have lived. He offers his free gift of salvation to anyone who will simply accept it.
My desire is to witness to any and all that will listen and trust that some will consider what God has to offer to them.
So the Holy Spirit is incapable of working faith in a baby's heart?Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson
Maybe it's just me... but I think the last few pages of posts have gotten away from the subject of eternal judgement and more so on attacking eachother's beliefs and interpretations of scripture.
There is much that's been said I agree with and disagree with, but it's not necessarily furthering the specific subject at hand anymore.
Ben there, done that. Grew up in a fundamentalist/evangelical/ultra conservative home where all things Bible were either black or white. I stumbled when I left home for college, and fall I did. My house of cards went tumbling. Years later, I am finally at peace with what I believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
>Moved to Religious Discussions<
Carry on!
The Holy Spirit does work in an infants heart, but for them to understand it, no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Understanding is the key to faith,
Mat 13:19 People hear the message about the kingdom but do not understand it. Then the evil one comes. He steals what was planted in their hearts. Those people are like the seed planted on a path.
You can not have faith without understanding, which = "Wisdom"
Mcsap, do you ever read what you write? It is not your intent to force anyone, etc. There are no threats,. etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsap9213
Yet, from the other side of your mouth, we are condemned to hell if we don't buy into what you are selling.
You are living in bizarro world. And you're completely oblivious to your own self-delusion.
Take a step back, read a book, say a prayer (ask God for guidance), and take two aspirin.
WG.
Because you reasoned it out in your mind. You can't back your thoughts up with scripture. Am I right? I am not trying to be rude but.. come ON. I believe that the Lord Jesus is so full of grace he will do /go above and beyond to get someone to accept him. However I can't back that up. I can say he isn't willing that anyone should perish. I can KNOW him personally. But that isn't the gospel. Our personal thoughts is NOT what we represent to the world. We have ONLY the Word of God. The word of God says that Jesus is the ONLY way.. not A way.
And that's why I believe in infant baptism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson
The understanding develops as the child develops. That's why there are sponsors or godparents, to help the parents as they raise the child and teach him.
Huh? I never said that.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
But that's not what baptism is about. Until a person receives Christ's atonement, there is no purpose for baptism. It's a symbolic death and resurrection with Christ... and not something an infant, or even a young child has the ability to understand. Though Christianity isn't so much about reason, it is about a choice... and children aren't held to that choice until they are at an age of accountability... which obviously will differ from child to child as they mentally develop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
WG.
No you didn't. But you can't back your beliefs up with scripture either.
If Jesus says he is the ONLY way to the father.. how can a hindu come to him?
It isn't that the Holy Spirit is incapable. Rather it is the free will that God gives man. To believe that infant baptism converts the baby into being a Christian would mean that God forces himself upon the child.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
In order to become a Christian , the person has to freely and voluntarily accept Jesus as his Saviour. Baptism is also a command to Christians but like accepting Jesus , it is voluntary. It is not a requirement to be saved. The thief on the cross accepted Jesus but of course , wasn't baptized.
I do absolutely agree with infant dedication though. Christian parents are certainly encouraged to publicly dedicate their children to God. That doesn't mean the child will become a Christian or even live a good life. That small child will someday make his / her own decision whether to accept the free gift of salvation.
Good point, haunting helper. I'm at fault. I do tend to get carried away with the fundamentalists. I know they hold their beliefs strongly, but I'll never understand how they're so insistent on hellfire for those who believe differently. Other than that, I respect and admire their strong faith in a world that drifts further and further away from basic decency.Quote:
Originally Posted by hauntinghelper
Anyway, my apologies
.
Sorry Athos , it isn't what I say , it is what God says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
God created man.
God gave man free will.
God offers a free gift of salvation through Jesus.
Man can accept or reject this.
God wants man to accept his gift of eternal life but does not force himself upon us.
God says that we are not righteous. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. We simply are not good enough.
God sent Jesus to die IN OUR PLACE because the wages of sin is (eternal ) death.
God loves us. He WANTS you to accept this gift.
But he is just and requires a payment for our sins. That payment is satisfied through accepting Jesus.
If you choose to reject this gift , you CANNOT spend eternity with God.
You then will spend eternity WITHOUT GOD.
Matthew 25:41. Depart from me ye accursed Into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. This isn't a threat , but rather it is a warning.
A warning from the word of God , not from me. I am just repeating it.
Who said that infant baptism does that? No one I know does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcsap9213
And my beliefs are what?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
WG,
You tell me. You don't state exactly what you believe but you IMPLY you believe people who do not accept Christ end up with the Father.
I don't know what that means.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
WG..
Okie dokie... read your own posts. THEN let me know what you believe.
*read my own posts*Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.
Don't fence God in. He's a lot bigger than we could ever imagine.
Don't judge. That belongs to God.
WG
OK... what do you do with this verse... I am the way the truth and the live no man comes to the father but by me. John 14:6
How about this one? For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but has everlasting life. John 3:16
It isn't a matter of judging. It is what it is. Either a person accepts Jesus or they don't. It isn't a judgement.. it is a choice.
Check back with me in heaven and we will see who made the cut. I'll be in the celestial kitchen baking brownies.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
God is full of mercy, He does not send His creation to hell, unfortunally people who don't accept Him send themselves there. There are very few people that can say they have never heard of the Bible, the word of God, we all know there is a God, because we live in His creation, and we are His creation. God is love, He is not this man pointing the finger at us judging us, if we turn our ways and have a sincere hearth He will never turn us away. It is important to understand that there is a heaven and a hell, whether some choose to believe it or not, there is. This path called life will come to an en one day, and what is at the end depends on the relationship we have with Christ today. I choose to believe in His word, believe in what He has done in my life, therefore I believe too that there is a heaven where if we choose to believe in Him, we will be in all eternity, and If I believe that,I also believe that there is a Hell, the choice is ours, and we have to make that decision here on hearrth, not after we are dead. God Bless
I think you are incorrect. The Bible are not to be "interpreted" at all. Why? There aren't any metaphors to BE interpreted! (God does use some metaphhors, yes; but He explains them most of the time, and when He doen't exactly, don't think about it too hard... our human minds will NEVER come up with the proper "interpretation") The entire Bible is the LITERAL Word of God and is to be taken Literally. Everything in Revelation is going to happen the exact way it says it will. I don't know what version others out there are using, but mine is the living Word of God in the KJV form. And even the NIV and a few others say basically the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Don't be a doubting Thomas too long. Since all the happenings in Revelation are in the future, and I believe the very near future, doubt for "too long" will become "too late". And NO ONE will want to be around here during the Tribulation. The Bible says that "men will seek death" in that time on Earth.
Sorry, but there WILL be a Great White Throne Judgement and there WILL be an eternal Lake of Fire where all unbelievers will dwell with the devil, his angels, and the Antichrist. Praise God I will not be at either!
The OT is full of metaphors and allegories.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ16
Revelation is over and done with. It was written for a certain time and purpose. It almost didn't make the cut exactly beause of that.
I see where she's coming from! They have everything to do with each other! Both Hindus and Muslims are idoleters. One of the first listed in that verse in I Cor.Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
"Thou shalt have NO other gods before me" Exodus (Ten Commandments) Hmmm.. and what is Allah?
"O Lord.....thou art God alone!" Psalm 87:10
"For I am God, and there is NONE else" Isaiah 45:22
See the connection?
No it is not!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
If it was over, I wouldn't be here, and either you wouldn't be here either or you'd WISH you weren't!
I know,I'm posting a lot. But adjust, please. Here's a bit of science to add to your critisism: Consider a candle or camp fire. The flames are mainly yellow and orange on the outer edges. In the inner flame, it is blue. Scientists have experimented - the hotter the flame, the darker it is. So it is NOT metaphorical. The flames will be soooo utterly hot, that they will be black. IN other words - it'll be dark. (OOPS! Sorry - no metaphor there either!)Quote:
Originally Posted by dwashbur
Trust me. Nothing is going to happen. It already happened a couple of thousand years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ16
What is it about the King James Version that you people are so obsessed with? Do you ever think about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ16
Beautiful language? Without a doubt. True to the original writings? Not hardly.
Consider what a non-literal translation of the Bible does to your insistence on the literal-ness of your reading. Are you channeling God - or King James?
Athos,
Really? "you people"... smh. I know it is late but I am in NO mood for your nasty comments. If this is the best you have... take it elsewhere. Unless of course you can answer the OP's question according to the bible... OH.. thats right.. you don't know it. You just know how to put Christians down. I keep forgetting that.
He knows it far better than most Christians, even me.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Consider what he says, not how he says it.
WOW! Why are YOU obsessed with knocking down fundamenalists?Quote:
Originally Posted by Athos
I have read multiple versions of Scripture and I've studies enough Greek/hebrew to know the KJV is the most accurate. I'm not obsessed with the KJV. I am not channeling King James. I AM obsessed with God however. His awesomness captivates me! I want the most accurate version out there.
And I believe the verse was quoted earlier about "my ways are not your ways, neither my thoughts your thoughts". If our thoughts can not be like that of God's, He wouldn't have left the interpreting to us! So, since we cannot think like God, He did not leave us to interpret His meaning, and thus, we can take literal meanings. I said earlier, God does give metaphors that He usually gives a clear understanding of. If we read the Word and then interpret it to our liking, it is no longer God's Word with God's meaning, but man's.
Thanks Classy!
And WG, I've considered both... I don't like either the words or the way. Something tells me, we all need to go to bed. I feel bad for the guy who made the original post!
You believe God created in six 24-hour days?Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ16
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