We're interested in truth here.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
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We're interested in truth here.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
Thanks for that clarification. I already knew that. But I dummed it down in case other readers didn't.
Yes, of course you did.
Dumbed, not dummed
We really appreciate you dumBing it down for us laymen :)Quote:
Thanks for that clarification. I already knew that. But I dummed it down in case other readers didn't.
:) Sure go for it! I'm still waiting for some answers too.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
AWESOME! My sincerest thanks for allowing me to ask this question!Quote:
Originally Posted by Depressed in MO
HeadStrongBoy:
You say that the whole bible is to be taken seriously. And you say that the verses Synnen references are merely her interpretation.
I have heard of the verses to which Synnen refers, and I have only ever heard them brushed off as "old testament". SO, you are a believer of the whole bible, and Synnen has brought forth statements to the bible, and you have said they are misinterpreted and the bible tells us how to interpret them.
I would like to know, then, how the bible tells us to interpret them, and how they are to be interpreted. I eagerly await your response.
I don't really need the asker's permission. I've read the Posting Rules. And I believe it's in my own best interests to stick to the original subject within very narrow limits, based on my own discretion. And I repeat that I have no intention of discussing any aspect of sexuality on this particular thread.Quote:
Quoting southamerica:
That's true, I guess we should make sure the OP is okay with you answering these questions.
Depressed, would you be okay if we asked HSB this question? Sure go for it! I'm still waiting for some answers too
Obviously you're expecting some kind of an answer. But you'll have to make it a question that's relevant to the subject of May 21, 2011.
So... you're telling me that MY time and MY prayers and MY reading of the Bible are incorrect in interpreting all parts of the Bible?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Why?
Did God come down and talk to you from a burning bush and tell YOU exactly how to do this interpreting of the Bible that is the only truth? If it wasn't GOD, in words that are not open to interpretation---how do you KNOW that your version of interpretation isn't just another interpretation of how to interpret the Bible?
And frankly, if it's a guide that is supposed to tell EVERYONE how to live, then why does it take that much work to interpret to begin with? I mean, God gives people a book that they can use to know how to love him and worship him--but it's open to INTERPRETATION? That doesn't sound very god-like to me. If God truly loved mankind and wanted them all saved, he'd give them a book that helped them live the way he wanted them to and wouldn't wrap it up in dilemmas and mysteries.
Okay okay okay. May 21st, 2011, it is.
About previous predictions of the end of the world, you made a comment as to the Satanic installation in churches. The following questions were asked:
And when were those seals broken? What are your SPECIFIC signs that you're using here? I don't remember the sun becoming as sackcloth and the moon as blood, and there have been any NUMBER of great earthquakes---which one are you counting?
Can't wait to hear your answers.
Fine. My points weren't about human sexuality, anyway. They were about the fact that those are DIRECTIVES from the Old Testament that are only followed by very few religious sects--and those sects are generally condemned by others for being "savage".Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
My RELEVANT question is this: Why are SOME parts of the Bible used as ABSOLUTES and other parts IGNORED ENTIRELY? This is relevant because you say that your belief uses the WHOLE Bible. If so, do you follow ALL directives in the Bible, or are you a hypocrite and follow only the parts you believe---which would negate your whole argument about 5/21/11.
HeadStrongBoy:
So when did you become a believer in all of this? HOW did you become a believer in all of this? Did God speak to you? Again, whoever claimed this date to be the end, is he considered to be a prophet of God? Do you consider yourself to be a prophet of God, or a follower of a prophet to God?
ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to southamerica again.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
Thank you;)
In my opinion the laws of moral living that the Bible gives for all of humanity (saved and un-saved)... for the purposes of this discussion... should be considered a separate issue. I say that because the Bible is crystal clear that our efforts to obey those commandments have no effect on our salvation.Quote:
Quoting HeadStrongBoy:
I merely used his comment as a seg-way to show that the Bible gives us specific rules that should be used to interpret all parts of the Bible. The process is quite involved and it's not easy at all. It requires much time and prayer to get the truth. So... you're telling me that MY time and MY prayers and MY reading of the Bible are incorrect in interpreting all parts of the Bible?
Why?
Did God come down and talk to you from a burning bush and tell YOU exactly how to do this interpreting of the Bible that is the only truth? If it wasn't GOD, in words that are not open to interpretation---how do you KNOW that your version of interpretation isn't just another interpretation of how to interpret the Bible?
And frankly, if it's a guide that is supposed to tell EVERYONE how to live, then why does it take that much work to interpret to begin with? I mean, God gives people a book that they can use to know how to love him and worship him--but it's open to INTERPRETATION? That doesn't sound very god-like to me. If God truly loved mankind and wanted them all saved, he'd give them a book that helped them live the way he wanted them to and wouldn't wrap it up in dilemmas and mysteries.
The subject of this thread is the beginning of Judgment Day, May 21, 2011. Judgment Day is an integral part of God's greater plan of salvation. Being saved, or rather becoming saved is NOT a function of how moral we live, or of how moral we are. Salvation and judgment are entirely in the hands of God. And no human individual has any choice in the matter. All of us begin as sinners. Only God's grace grants any saved person a new soul (heart, or spirit).
FYI -- from one of HSB's early posts;: "I am a 60 year male from America. Born in Germany. Never married."
I'm with you so far (with the above snippets).Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
What's that got to do with anything ? Can't stop the message ? Try to expose the messenger's personal weaknessess ?
P.S. That's 62 years.
Ok... then how did the end date in October come about? Can you elaborate more on that? That's when all the "unwanted" people get sucked into the ground? I'm not trying to be funny either, I just want to get educated on the facts behind the dates between May 21 and Oct (I forget the exact day in Oct).Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
What's that got to do with anything ? Can't stop the message ? Try to expose the messenger's personal weaknessess ?
What weaknesses? We here know each other; it's valid to know who you are. If you are a teenager (HSBOY), the import of your posts would be entirely different than that of a person who is 62. As a older adult with a great deal of life experience, you have apparently given great thought to your beliefs.
HSB Please:
I'm not trying to change the subject, I believe this is all tied in with May 21, 2011.
Can you help me understand?
From earlier:Ok... then how did the end date in October come about? Can you elaborate more on that? That's when all the "unwanted" people get sucked into the ground? I'm not trying to be funny either, I just want to get educated on the facts behind the dates between May 21 and Oct (I forget the exact day in Oct).
HSB has left the building.Quote:
Originally Posted by Depressed in MO
If I remember correctly, the May date is the Rapture when all true Christians will be gathered in the air and taken to heaven. The Oct. date is the beginning of the Final Judgment.
From Wikipedia (Harold Camping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) --
[Harold] Camping teaches that a Biblical calendar has been hidden according to Daniel 12:9, Revelation 22:10 detailing the imminent end of the world (with alleged Biblical evidence pointing to the date for the Rapture as May 21, 2011); of the "end of the church age" (which asserts that churches are no longer the vehicle used by God for salvation, 1 Peter 4:17); and of predestination (Ephesians 1:4-5), according to which God determined before the beginning of the world which individuals are to be saved.
Camping's Biblical study regarding time and Christ's second coming is based on the cycles of:
* Jewish feast days in the Hebrew calendar, as described in the Old Testament,
* the lunar month calendar (1 month = 29.53059 days), and
* the Gregorian calendar (1 year = 365.2425 days).
He projects these into modern times and combines the results with other information in the Bible.
Depressed
Revelation 9:10 says:"And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. And their power was to hurt men five months."Quote:
Ok... then how did the end date in October come about? Can you elaborate more on that? That's when all the "unwanted" people get sucked into the ground? I'm not trying to be funny either, I just want to get educated on the facts behind the dates between May 21 and Oct (I forget the exact day in Oct).
John 21:11 says:"Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three. And for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken."
2 Corinthians 2:16 says:"To the one we are the savour death unto death. And to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things ?"
The interpretation is that the scorpions represent the saved people who've been raptured. Those who have not been taken up, but who believed they should have been, will be "weeping and gnashing their teeth." They'll be angry at God. And the realization that they have been left behind will hurt like the sting of a scorpion. This psychic pain will go on for five months until Oct. 21, 2011. Then 2 Peter 3:10 and 12 will occur. "The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
The number 153 fishes refers to those in the net that was not broken, those who have been raptured. 153 is the actual number of days from May 21, 2011 until Oct. 21, 2011. Even though the saved people will be in heaven during those 5 months, the entire program of salvation/judgment is yet not complete. That's what 2 Corinthians 2:16 refers to. The completion of judgment.
Matthew 24:36, 'Of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.' "
Is the above a lie then?
NeedKarma
[QUOTE]Matthew 24:36, 'Of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.' Is the above a lie then?
No. It's not a lie. God cannot lie.
The problem is in how we choose to look at that statement. The Bible gives us very specific rules that tell us exactly how we must approach our search for truth from God's word. First of all... HUMILITY. In other words... Dear Lord... you teach me, in myself I am ignorant.
Next 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the holy Ghost teacheth. Comparing spiritual things with spiritual." In other words we must compare different parts of the Bible to make certain we have harmony among all the verses that offer facts about the same subject. A quite arduous task. And there are several other rules also.
For the sake of brevity I'll summarize. The statement that no man knows was more than true during the Church Age. In fact Jesus said that, in effect, it was none of their business. Acts 1:7 says "it is not for you to know..." The reason given is that their task was to get out the gospel, and don't be distracted by these side issues. But all of that changed in 1988. Now God has removed the seals from the Bible and much new insight is possible. Those who God plans to save, and perhaps some others who also studied the Bible, not only are able to know but they must know so that they can warn the world. A warning trumpet must give a clear sound, with facts.
However, after 1988, those who will continue to believe church teachings will continue to expect Christ to come "as a thief in the night," that is unexpectedly. So for them, that particular verse remains as true as ever. They refuse to look at the whole Bible. And they refuse to follow the rules. So for those who will not be saved... they cannot (or will not) know.
HSB- Where did 1988 come about? And what seals have been removed? Where did the new information come from that was previously unavailable? Was it new verses? A prophet?
What was different from 1987 to 1988 that made the bible different to interpret?
But you want US to read the ranting from some wacko like Camping or what ever his name is? Come on HSB get real. Read the bible, and if you are not strong enough to understand the true and complete word of God then maybe YOU should get some professional help in this matter. You continually recite the mantra from the likes of this Camping fella and will not defend it. So I assume you really do not believe it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
According to the previous verses, the creatures so described came out of the Abyss, and their king is named Abaddon in Hebrew, Apollyon in Greek, both names for Satan. So the saved people who have been raptured are ruled by Satan.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
Uh, sure. So it's legitimate to just grab a verse from here and a verse from there and build something on it and call it proper interpretation. Because that's exactly what the above does.Quote:
Those who have not been taken up, but who believed they should have been, will be "weeping and gnashing their teeth." They'll be angry at God. And the realization that they have been left behind will hurt like the sting of a scorpion. This psychic pain will go on for five months until Oct. 21, 2011. Then 2 Peter 3:10 and 12 will occur. "The earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
Uh, sure. It couldn't possibly refer to, oh, I don't know, FISH?? This miraculous catch was what confirmed to the disciples that it really was Jesus talking to them. I have no idea why that isn't enough.Quote:
The number 153 fishes refers to those in the net that was not broken, those who have been raptured.
If this stuff doesn't prove conclusively that context means nothing in Camping's (and HSB's) system, I don't know what will. It's easy to grab words from here and there as desired and build something that fits your preconceived notions, but that doesn't make it right. And this approach is so far beyond ridiculous, I'm not sure English even has a word for it.Quote:
153 is the actual number of days from May 21, 2011 until Oct. 21, 2011. Even though the saved people will be in heaven during those 5 months, the entire program of salvation/judgment is yet not complete. That's what 2 Corinthians 2:16 refers to. The completion of judgment.
[QUOTE=HeadStrongBoy;2759388]NeedKarma
So I go to church now, along with my family-will God look down on me for that? Since I clearly have not studied the bible, is that a good chance that He will not accept me? What about my children? They are very young in age, one of them are just learning to read. Should I have started reading the bible to them when they were babies? I'm not being sarcastic here...Quote:
For the sake of brevity I'll summarize. The statement that no man knows was more than true during the Church Age. In fact Jesus said that, in effect, it was none of their business. Acts 1:7 says "it is not for you to know..." The reason given is that their task was to get out the gospel, and don't be distracted by these side issues. But all of that changed in 1988. Now God has removed the seals from the Bible and much new insight is possible. Those who God plans to save, and perhaps some others who also studied the Bible, not only are able to know but they must know so that they can warn the world. A warning trumpet must give a clear sound, with facts.
However, after 1988, those who will continue to believe church teachings will continue to expect Christ to come "as a thief in the night," that is unexpectedly. So for them, that particular verse remains as true as ever. They refuse to look at the whole Bible. And they refuse to follow the rules. So for those who will not be saved... they cannot (or will not) know.
If always having God in our hearts, and praying to him, and spreading the word of God (although not in biblical terms) to others, but just by believing and following-would God accept me and my family?
I've done some pretty effed up things in my life-sinful things. Will God forgive me? How will I know?
These are mainly hypothetical questions; however, how does one prepare for something like this? Is it too late for some?
YOUR KIDDING, RIGHT?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
How the heck do you get the raptured church out of scorpions, one of the plagues that God sends to the world AFTER he has taken his church out of the world?? Are you making this stuff up as you go along?
Southamerica[1] No new verses. Revelation 22:18 and 19. In other words nothing is to be added to the Bible, and nothing is to be taken away from it. Since the completion of the Bible about 2000 years ago God has given no more supernatural revelations. No more visions, no more voices, no dreams, no healings, no physical miracles of any kind.Quote:
HSB- Where did 1988 come about? And what seals have been removed? Where did the new information come from that was previously unavailable? Was it new verses? A prophet?
[2] Daniel 12:9 says:"And he said Go thy way Daniel. For the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Revelation 8:1says:"And when He had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." That was the first day of The Great Tribulation in 1988.
[3] The Biblical development (or proof-if you prefer) is somewhat complex. Right now I'm too tired to work on this anymore. But if you don't want to wait for me, the information is available FREE from Family Stations, Inc. Ask for the book by Harold Camping called The End of The church Age and After.
ERROR: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dwashbur again.
Thank you for your clarifications! It was like ready English!
Please, before you go, if you can suggest-how does someone who it took over a quarter of their lifetime to really accept Jesus into their heart-have a chance to be accepted by God when this day comes? (I'm using this as an example)Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
What criteria must be met to be accepted?
I'm just asking your opinion-nothing more.
I guess I'm still not seeing how 1988 comes into play? I went to the website briefly and as far as I can tell the date is arbitrary?
I went to college for literature, and it's amazing how a class of 20 students can write 20 different papers about 1 book... all interpreting it differently. In many cases you'd swear they were reading different books!
I am still curious as to which verse tells us how to interpret the bible...
(Authors rarely tell you how, audience interpretation is part of the magic of literature)
First of all, you must take what people like HSB are saying as false teachings. He is not willing to come on here to defend his beliefs, so I have no other options. Now as to how to interpretate the Bible question. Take it exactly as it says. There is no mystery in what the Bible says. I subscribe that God inspired the words written in the Bible. So it is a road map of how to live, how to treat others and how you need to prepare your soul for the soon coming of out Lord. As warning to HSB and others, I think they need to read Revelation 22:18-21. God clearly tells us exactly will happen to those that spread false teachings.Quote:
Originally Posted by southamerica
No more visions, no more voices, no dreams, no healings, no pyhsical miracles of any kind? No wonder you subscribe to the BS that you do... you obvisouly grew up in a church where your head was shoved down a hole. The bible tells us clearly that these signs will follow those that believe... if you're not seeing those signs in the ministry you belong to... I suggest you hook up with some people that actually have faith.
Acts 2:17
"In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams."
Which Bible? The Hebrew Bible? The KJV? The Wycliffe version? The Gutenberg? The English Revised Version? The New International version? Comparisons between the different versions of the Bible (and when you start counting all the translations to all the world languages, there are HUNDREDS of versions of the Bible) show the average similarity score to only be around 60%. That means that ONLY 60% of the Bible is EXACTLY the same from version to version, translation to translation. So which one are YOU using? Which one is the "right" Bible?Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
PS--the Bible wasn't completed 2000 years ago--not even CLOSE. The first Bible transcriptions weren't really put in place until the middle ages--somewhere around 400 CE, if I remember correctly. Before that, there were MULTIPLE oral traditions, but no one "Bible". And even then, they didn't include ALL of the oral traditions into the Bible... or even some of the written. That's what the Catholic Apocrypha are--and the Dead Sea Scrolls as well. So--closer to 1600 years, not 2000. And if you tell me that 400 years doesn't make a difference, I'll start REALLY doubting your ability to predict any date.
And that's based on--what, again? You still haven't told me how you've figured out the seals have been broken and that 1988 is the year that Satan took over the church. Still don't remember a sackcloth sun or a blood moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
The development of the Bible IS very complex---it stretches for about 2500 years in total development. MOST of the development is oral tradition. Ever play telephone? How often is the phrase at the end the same as the starting phrase? All it takes is changing ONE WORD to change an entire meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadStrongBoy
I think this whole thing is unsupportable by the Bible in the same way that saying that it was okay to enslave blacks for hundreds of years because Ham looked on Noah naked was unsupportable. When people not brainwashed look at it with logic, the whole thing is ludicrous.
You have yet to post anything that I can even take seriously, because you've taken random pieces of the Bible, stuck them together, and called them "prophecy". Any idiot can do that. Give me a day, and I'll give you my own prediction on something silly as well.
On second thought---I'm not wasting my time doing something like that.
Basically, your arguments have yet to convince me of anything but that May 21st will be just another day.
My anniversary is on May 27. I plan to party like it's the end of the world, and I'm sure I'll live to see that day and many others after it.
In short, I'll be here on May 27, and now that all of you have been told, I expect a congrats on 16 years of marriage from all of you, including Mr. Headstrongboy. :)
Ours is May 28 (so I wouldn't be a June bride). Forty-four years. Let's party!Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
May 22nd is a Sunday. Either a lot of people are going to be in church that day... because they realize they need to learn a little more about God... or there are going to be a lot of people MISSING from church that day. As a born again Christian, I'm looking forward to and fully expecting to be here for my birthday in June.
I'll forget, so happy anniversary now.
Mine would have been June 14, thirty-one years... at least I don't have to remember that date any more!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
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