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Originally Posted by
Nestorian
"True or False. Genocide is morally wrong.
True or False. It is wrong to kill babies for entertainment.
True or False. Rape is morally wrong.
Do you believe that any of these statements are true? Or can I hide behind vague talk of "possibilities" in order to perform any reprehensible act that tickles my fancy with a clear conscience?"
Hum, indeed. I can not say, they are far too vauge. In different situations I'd say one, and in others, the other. I can not say that these questions are truths. They are subject to ones opinion, and that is bias. Truth is undeniable, facts. No?
Yes, I believe each of them is true. I don't see any reason to suppose we should favor a relativist or situational view regarding, say, genocide. It's true, as you say, that people have opinions about these things. But from the fact that people have (different) opinions it doesn't follow that there is no truth of the matter. Hitler was of the opinion that the extermination of Jews was okay. He was wrong. Genocide is wrong; it's always wrong, and anyone who believes otherwise is mistaken. Just as someone who holds the belief that 2+2=5 is simply mistaken.
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For example, you say it's wrong to kill babies for entertainment, so why are we cutting forests down, and the animals with it. That includes "baby animals", and for what? Our over sized homes, Kleenex (tissue papper), Fancy Furniture, and billions of carboard boxes, christmass cards, wrapping papper, and so much more. But aren't those just in a round about way, entertainment?
Well, of course, my question concerned human babies. I'm willing to bet you'd agree that killing human babies for enterntainment is wrong, that the statement with which I presented you is true. Here you're changing the subject to something different, to our treatment of animals and the environment. This is also an important subject, one on which I suspect you and I would find ourselves in agreement. Like you, I think our treatment of animals and the environment is morally reprehensible.
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“... Attachment leads to jealously. The shadow of greed, that is.”
I make it a point never to disagree with Yoda.
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So, now tell me where do your morals stand? Since morals can be interpreted differntly by other people; I can't say it is absolute truth.
Again, from the fact that people can and do hold different opinions it doesn't follow that all of those opinions are right. Some are wrong. It's our job to figure out which ones are true and which are false and to jettison our false beliefs in favor of true beliefs. This is what education is all about.
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is the baby sick and in horendous pain? No, there are far too many "Possibilites" to decide what is best until you are in that situation, and faced with that dilema.
My question concerned killing babies for *entertainment*. Would you agree that it is wrong to go around killing small children just for kicks? Would you agree that it is never okay to kill small children just for the fun of it?
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Since we are in it, with the environment, it is clear to me that those who would answer those questions true, are not being entirely honest. Unless we assume what you meant, and unfortuantly i try not to look at one possibility.
Then how will you ever commit to anything? To truth, to a partner, anything. Do you intend to float free your whole life, never believing anything, never caring about anything? Because believing and caring are commitments, and this requires closing off certain possibilities. To believe that it is wrong to kill children for the fun of it is to reject the possibility that it is a good thing to kill children for the fun of it. Isn't this a part of maturity?
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we are all equally responsible.
You may be right about that, but that's a different topic. We're talking about truth; the very important question about responsibility is distinct from that. Although you do appear to take it to be *true* that we are "all equally responsible". It seems to me that when it gets right down to it, you know that there is a difference between truth and falsity. You give evidence of that here.
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I know nothing, but i do learn.
Learning is good. It bares fruit in knowledge. You know lots of things, otherwise you wouldn't have been able to log on and post a question, navigate your environment, etc.
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As for genocide, what do you consider to be genocide, are you talking about, the crusades, WWI, WWII, Nam, COLD WAR, "the WAR on Terror", what about the irradication of entire religons?
By genocide I was thinking about things like the Holocaust. (War, as awful as it is, is another topic. I asked specifically about genocide.) I'm willing to bet you'd agree that the Holocaust was bad, and that things like the Holocaust are *always* bad.
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Now, fro the third one. Hum, difficult. Rape is rather plain and simple, or is it? Rape of the eco system? Rape of a women, child or even a man. Once again one situation yes, others not. Any "forcible or outragous interference or violation" environmental, and personal. Some times it is needed to kill trees in a forest to make a home. I'd say that counts as forcible manipulation of the environment no? We tend to abuse this ability, or more accuratly responsibility.
Now you're playing with language. I think it's pretty clear that I meant rape as sexual assault.
And, yes, we do shirk our responsibilities. And responsibility requires commitment.
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So, you think I'm irresponsible, foolish, and any thing else?
Never said anything close to that. I do think that some of your views are confused, though. That's what we're talking about here.
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Brother i care for and respect the life that i am. Which includes, the environment around me, which gives me food, nurousment, energy, shelter, and more. I do not only believe every one is responsible for their actions, but also for the ideas they impose upon and teach others.
Good. You are right to.
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tell me, am i bad? Good? Neither? There is no good or bad, only possibilities.
How on earth would I know whether you are good or bad? I've had a couple of brief exchanges with you on an internet forum.
Really, no good or bad? I think this talk about possibilities is talk. I bet you think that the Holocaust, the systematic extermination of men, women, and children on account of their religion or ethnicity, is wrong. I bet you think that our reckless and reprehensible degradation of the environment is wrong--otherwise I doubt you'd mention it as often as you have.
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And just so you do know, In the sense that you intended your three questions, I would not do any of those things. But some have, do, and will. So we can't assume because we believe it, so must every body else.
No we can't assume that. Different people have different opinions. But as I've said, from that mere fact alone it doesn't follow that all those opinions are true. And I certainly hope that you don't intend to engage in the three actions I mentioned in my questions to you. If so, then we have nothing further to discuss and I can only hope for your speedy apprehension by the authorities. But my guess is that you haven't, and don't, engage in them because you see that they are wrong.
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peace be with you.
And with you.
