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-   -   Why can't people of different faiths accept one another? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=285076)

  • Nov 26, 2008, 08:55 PM
    Alty

    Please everyone, let's not become argumentative, I will ask that this thread be closed if that continues. Please, let's continue to respect eachothers beliefs. In order to do that we must admit that they are just beliefs, not fact.

    Until you show actual proof that God exists without a doubt then you cannot claim that it is a fact that he exists. You can say that you believe God exists.

    If God was a fact that everyone would believe. It's a fact that dogs exist, there's proof, no one doubts the existence of dogs. So, if there was proof of God no one would doubt His existence either. It's just common sense.

    Quote:

    As a parent, are you saying that you NEVER punish any of your children?
    Tom,

    Of course I punish them, but I would never condemn them to hell for not following my wishes. Don't you see the difference?
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:12 PM
    asking
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    She was making reference to this passage:

    2 Tim 2:15
    15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
    NKJV

    I am surprised that you are having such difficulty with it.

    What does it mean to divide a word? I assume this is not about dividing it into syllables!
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:13 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    Please everyone, let's not become argumentative, I will ask that this thread be closed if that continues. Please, let's continue to respect eachothers beliefs. In order to do that we must admit that they are just beliefs, not fact.

    No, I will not deny the truth of my God.

    Quote:

    Tom,

    Of course I punish them, but I would never condemn them to hell for not following my wishes. Don't you see the difference?
    God did not condemn anyone to hell for eternity. It was their choice. Do you know why hell exists? It was created not for men and women but for Satan and the demons:

    Matt 25:41-42
    41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
    NKJV


    Why did God do this? Because Satan and his demons were deceiving men and women to reject Him and to join Satan in his path to destruction. Hell was created to punish Satan and the demons for the evikl that they were doing to mankind. Thus hell was an eternal punishment in defence of us.

    What did God actually do. Condemn men and women? No!

    John 3:17-20
    17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
    NKJV


    So God chose to come to earth as a man in order to die on the cross so that men, while in rebellion to Him, might yet have a way to avoid the consequences of their own decision.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:20 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asking View Post
    What does it mean to divide a word? I assume this is not about dividing it into syllables!

    Not a word, but the word of God - the Bible.

    It is a term that means to dissect, examine, and study.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:22 PM
    asking
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3;1396204

    [I
    John 3:17-20
    . . .18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed . . .[/I]

    No disrespect, but this is what my ex used to say to me, that I had to accept everything he said on faith. And you know how bad at that I am. :)

    Some people are designed for worship and taking things on faith, others not.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:24 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asking View Post
    No disrespect, but this is what my ex used to say to me, that I had to accept everything he said on faith. And you know how bad at that I am. :)

    Some people are designed for worship and taking things on faith, others not.

    So why do you reject the Bible without a thorough examine of the facts?

    Christianity is not a blind faith, but a faith based on the truth.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:27 PM
    Alty

    I agree Asking. Accepting something on faith isn't easy, we as humans want proof.

    I'm perfectly aware that my belief in God is just that, a belief. I have no proof whatsoever that he exists, so how can I fault people who choose not to believe in him?

    If there was proof then of course everyone would believe. That's why I know there isn't any proof. For people to refuse God if there was proof of his existence, well that would be ridiculous.

    So, until there is proof we can only claim that we believe in God, that it is faith based, not fact based.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:31 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    If there was proof then of course everyone would believe. That's why I know there isn't any proof. For people to refuse God if there was proof of his existence, well that would be ridiculous.

    This argument is based upon a false premise. The earth is known to be round, and yet we have the flat earth society. We know that man has landed on the moon, yet check on internet and you will find thousands who think that it is a hoax. Evidence of the truth does not prevent people from rejecting the truth.

    The truth is that there is evidence for God and for the truth of Christianity and yet many reject it.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:39 PM
    Alty

    But why reject it? Is it that hard to find? Is it that hard to understand?

    I do agree that there is proof of many things that people still don't believe in. But they're all things we cannot see with our own eyes.

    Unless you went to the moon, you have no real proof that man has ever landed there, you have to take others word for it.

    Unless you've seen the earth from a distance and know that it's round, you have to take others words for it.

    I've seen pictures of what people claim was big foot. I've never seen big foot myself, so I have to take their word for it.

    So, I guess it all comes down to how much you trust the people telling your these things. How much your trust the evidence provided.

    For example, the bigfoot picture. Well it's a picture, so one would think that's pretty substantial proof. But pictures can be altered. Pictures can be faked, it could be a guy in a big foot costume. So I don't have a lot of reason to believe that picture. But if I saw bigfoot for myself, well then of course I'd believe.

    It's the same with God. Some people claim to have proof of his existence. But how much do you trust the source of that proof. Could the proof be faked or altered in order to make it more real?

    It's hard to prove God. What is proof for some is just a big foot picture to others.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:49 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    But why reject it? Is it that hard to find? Is it that hard to understand?

    People reject the truth for many reasons. Some refuse to even consider the evidence. Other find the truth just too hard to accept.

    Quote:

    I do agree that there is proof of many things that people still don't believe in. But they're all things we cannot see with our own eyes.
    We had a thread of over 500 messages discussing evidence for God that can be seen with your own eyes.
    Quote:

    Unless you went to the moon, you have no real proof that man has ever landed there, you have to take others word for it.
    Not true. There is evidence that can be seen from earth with the right equipment. There is a mirror on the surface intended to reflect laser beams, and that can be detected by many sites. Now, you are left with accepting that a perfect mirror appears naturally, or that man made it to the moon.

    Quote:

    It's the same with God. Some people claim to have proof of his existence. But how much do you trust the source of that proof. Could the proof be faked or altered in order to make it more real?
    The evidence that I speak of cannot be faked. Some of it is found in nature itself.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:54 PM
    Tj3

    An interesting related article:

    Children are born believers in God, academic claims - Telegraph
  • Nov 26, 2008, 09:59 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    An interesting related article:

    "He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God."

    As I said earlier, the Texas Indians believed in God, even before the Franciscan missionaries arrived. The missionaries worked with the Indians' own experience of God and expanded on that.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 10:25 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    I agree Asking. Accepting something on faith isn't easy, we as humans want proof.

    I saw somewhere on the board where you said that you live near Edmonton. You should have come to our conference on Nov 15th in Lacombe. Two members of this site were speaking at the conference. You might have gotten some of your questions regarding our beliefs and the evidence for Christianity answered in person.
  • Nov 26, 2008, 11:04 PM
    asking
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    If there was proof then of course everyone would believe. That's why I know there isn't any proof. For people to refuse God if there was proof of his existence, well that would be ridiculous.

    So, until there is proof we can only claim that we believe in God, that it is faith based, not fact based.

    This argument appeals to the romantic in me.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 02:53 PM
    Alty

    My children believe in God. In fact, if you ask my 6 year old daughter, "who made you so special" her answer will be "God did". I like to think I had a hand in it too. ;)

    My children have never been to church, I've never read the bible to them, heck, I don't think they'd know what the bible is if they saw it. To them it would just be a book.

    They know about God, they know about Jesus. We have two manger scenes that we put up every year for Christmas. One is very old, older than me, it belonged to my parents and of course it was passed down to me when they died. It's a very simple set, beautiful, but the paint is starting to fade, the manger itself needs a bit of repair, but I put it up with pride every year. I love that set.

    The little baby jesus figure is not attached to his little bed. The bed is filled with straw and a bit of down. Every year the kids careful fluff up the down and then both of them put the figurine in it's bed. They know that Christmas is the Christian celebration of the day Jesus was born. So yes, I do teach my children about God. Is that not the same Gos as the Christian God?

    I just wanted to share that. I think a lot of Christians have gotten the impression that I pray to a different God, just because I don't adhere to the bible or organized relgion.

    My beliefs are not so different, the biggest difference is, I accept others beliefs, I have no need or desire to force them to see my way. I don't believe their souls are in danger if they don't believe in God. I see the person for who they are, not what they are or what they believe in.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 06:52 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    So yes, I do teach my children about God. Is that not the same Gos as the Christian God?

    What is it that the know about Jesus? What do they know about the gospel? Here is what scripture says if Jesus is separate from what the Bible says:

    2 John 7-11
    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
    NKJV


    The doctrine is the gospel given in scripture. Further, just because one uses the name of Jesus, a Jesus who does not come with the gospel is a concern. Again, what does scripture say:

    2 Cor 11:1-4
    11:1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly--and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
    NKJV


    Gal 1:6-10
    6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
    NKJV


    So scripture is clear that a Jesus who comes with a different gospel is not the same Jesus, and scripture is clear that this is not the same Jesus, not the same God.

    We cannot separate God from His word.
    Quote:

    I just wanted to share that. I think a lot of Christians have gotten the impression that I pray to a different God, just because I don't adhere to the bible or organized relgion.
    Organized religion has nothing to do with it. There are two reason why I believe that you follow a different God:

    1) You said that your God was a different God than my God in the last thread where we discussed this.
    2) You reject the word of the God that I worship.

    (for example: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/religi...ml#post1378882 )
  • Nov 27, 2008, 07:26 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    Is that not the same Gos as the Christian God?....I see the person for who they are, not what they are or what they believe in.

    Yup, same God! He has blessed you with the capacity for unconditional love.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 07:37 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Yup, same God! He has blessed you with the capacity for unconditional love.

    What is the standard that you are using to make the determination that that alone is how we determine who God is?
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:09 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    What is the standard that you are using to make the determination that that alone is how we determine who God is?

    Matt. 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits."
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:12 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Matt. 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

    First, what do you use to determine what those fruits should look like?

    Note that scripture says:

    2 John 7-11
    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
    NKJV
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:17 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    First, what do you use to determine what those fruits should look like?

    The Bible.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:18 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The Bible.

    Then why do you think that one can have the fruit of God by rejecting the Bible?
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:22 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Then how why do you think that one can have the fruit of God by rejecting the Bible?

    Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:31 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

    So God has given us His word which are from His thoughts. Are you saying that He lied to us in the Bible and He did not mean what He said?

    Also note that the context of this passage is speaking of His thoughts being above those who reject Him:

    Isa 55:6-7
    6 Seek the LORD while He may be found,
    Call upon Him while He is near.
    7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
    And the unrighteous man his thoughts;

    Let him return to the LORD,
    And He will have mercy on him;
    And to our God,
    For He will abundantly pardon.
    NKJV
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:44 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    those who reject Him

    We aren't speaking about anyone who has rejected him. 1 Kings 19:12 "And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:47 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    We aren't speaking about anyone who has rejected him.

    That is what we are trying to determine. You pointed to the Bible as the standard, and I am using that standard to see if in fact the fruit matches to what the Bible says that we should expect of someone who is following the same God of the Bible that Christians follow.

    Quote:

    1 Kings 19:12 "And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice."
    So explain to me how this has anything to do with the topic when read in context.

    1 Kings 19:9-18
    9 And there he went into a cave, and spent the night in that place; and behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and He said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 10 So he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life."

    11 Then He said, "Go out, and stand on the mountain before the LORD." And behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind tore into the mountains and broke the rocks in pieces before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake; 12 and after the earthquake a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire; and after the fire a still small voice. 13 So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 14 And he said, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God of hosts; because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life." 15 Then the LORD said to him: "Go, return on your way to the Wilderness of Damascus; and when you arrive, anoint Hazael as king over Syria. 16 Also you shall anoint Jehu the son of Nimshi as king over Israel. And Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abel Meholah you shall anoint as prophet in your place. 17 It shall be that whoever escapes the sword of Hazael, Jehu will kill; and whoever escapes from the sword of Jehu, Elisha will kill. 18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."
    NKJV

    Also, why are you not dealing with the passages that I have brought forward. God's word does not and cannot contradict itself.



    Prov 30:5-9
    5 Every word of God is pure;
    He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words,
    Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

    7 Two things I request of You
    (Deprive me not before I die):
    8 Remove falsehood and lies far from me;
    Give me neither poverty nor riches--
    Feed me with the food allotted to me;
    9 Lest I be full and deny You,
    And say, "Who is the LORD?"
    NKJV
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:52 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    That is what we are trying to determine.

    We are?
    Quote:

    You pointed to the Bible as the standard, and I am using that standard to see if in fact the fruit matches to what the Bible says that we should expect of someone who is following the same God of the Bible that Christians follow.
    The fruit matches, and the God is the same.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 08:59 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    We are?

    You forgot?

    Check posts 98 and 99, which were in response to the question regarding whether Alty was following the same God as Christians even though she rejects Christianity and the Bible

    Quote:

    The fruit matches, and the God is the same.
    You are going around in circles.

    Note that scripture says. The fruit does not match the test of scripture, which is what you said is the standard, therefore how could it possibly be the same God?

    What is it that they know about Jesus? What do they know about the gospel? Here is what scripture says if Jesus is separate from what the Bible says:

    2 John 7-11
    7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
    NKJV


    The doctrine is the gospel given in scripture. Further, just because one uses the name of Jesus, a Jesus who does not come with the gospel is a concern. Again, what does scripture say:

    2 Cor 11:1-4
    11:1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly--and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
    NKJV


    Gal 1:6-10
    6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
    NKJV


    So scripture is clear that a Jesus who comes with a different gospel is not the same Jesus, and scripture is clear that this is not the same Jesus, not the same God.

    We cannot separate God from His word.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:09 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    We cannot separate God from His word.

    Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:11 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

    You mean the Bible that He gave us through which to reveal Himself?

    Scripture says:

    Prov 30:5-6
    5 Every word of God is pure;
    He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words,
    Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
    NKJV

    By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:17 PM
    Wondergirl

    Quote:

    By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?
    In Matt. 7:1-5 Jesus said, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:19 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    In Matt. 7:1-5 Jesus said, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment that you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, "Let me take the speck out of your eye," when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

    That raises an excellent question. Why did you judge me like this:

    "Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in."

    Scripture says:

    Prov 30:5-6
    5 Every word of God is pure;
    He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words,
    Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
    NKJV

    By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:22 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    That raises an excellent question. Why did you judge me like this:

    "Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in."

    The judgment would have been: You are an evil person to put God into such a tiny box.
    The plea for mercy is: Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:26 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The judgment would have been: You are an evil person to put God into such a tiny box.
    The plea for mercy is: Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.

    Either way it is a judgment by claiming that I have put God into a box, and so far you have failed to answer these questions:

    Do you mean the Bible that He gave us through which to reveal Himself?

    Scripture says:

    Prov 30:5-6
    5 Every word of God is pure;
    He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words,
    Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
    NKJV

    By what authority do you tell me to go beyond what He Himself has said?
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:28 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Either way it is a judgment by claiming that I have put God into a box

    No, it is not, as I explained with lovely examples.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:31 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    No, it is not, as I explained with lovely examples.

    So I am glad that you think that your opinions and writing style are so great. But regardless of how wonderful you think that you and your skills may be, that is not the determination of sound doctrine - God's word is.

    By pointing to your own opinions, you have effectively made yourself your standard of truth.

    Deut 12:8
    8 You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes-
    NKJV
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:39 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    So I am glad that you think that your opinions and writing style are so great. But regardless of how wonderful you think that you and your skills may be, that is not the determination of sound doctrine - God's word is.

    By pointing to your own opinions, you have effectively made yourself your standard of truth.

    Deut 12:8
    8 You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes-
    NKJV

    Insults won't work. Bye.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 09:42 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Insults won't work. Bye.

    So when I challenge your opinions with scripture, you consider that an insult? But it is okay for you to falsely accuse and belittle others?

    Let's look back at that verse that you quoted before:

    Matt 7:1-5
    7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
    NKJV


    BTW, why do people always use the "God in a box" argument when they cannot deal with what God's word says? Maybe they do not like the box that God has chosen and revealed for Himself, and which He expects for us also. People want to behave as they want without limits, so they often try to suggest that God places no limits on us, but he does.

    He has placed Himself in the box of Holiness and Righteousness. He has placed Himself in the box of truth. He has placed Himself in the box of sound teaching and sound doctrine. He expects us to follow these limitations and includes the box of not following false doctrine, false gospel, and other gods.

    In Deuteronomy, we find men who chose to live life without God imposed limits:

    Deut 12:8
    8 You shall not at all do as we are doing here today--every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes-
    NKJV
  • Nov 27, 2008, 10:21 PM
    Alty
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Please take God out of that tiny box you have him squished in.


    I agree Wondergirl. I agree.

    Tom, you are so hung up by the bible that you can't see the forest for the trees.

    It is possible to worship the same God without following the bible.

    No, the bible does not enter into my faith, but I still believe in God, the same God as you. Just because I don't need a book to tell me how to live my life, doesn't mean that I don't know God.

    Every time someone tries to talk to you, you pull up a bible scripture.

    Tom, it is just a book, it's not the be all end all of everything.

    Maybe if you spent more time praying, talking to God, less time reading and quoting scripture, then you'd be able to understand that you and I, we pray to the same God, just in different ways.

    Also, an important thing to remember, we're both human, only God can truly know what's in our hearts. So, for you to say that I am wrong and you are right, well, you don't have the power to determine that, only God does.
  • Nov 27, 2008, 10:27 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Altenweg View Post
    Tom, you are so hung up by the bible that you can't see the forest for the trees.

    It is possible to worship the same God without following the bible.

    Really? By what standard do you determine that to be the case? God told us not to go beyond His word and not to go beyond what is written. What standard do you follow that says otherwise?

    Quote:

    No, the bible does not enter into my faith, but I still believe in God, the same God as you. Just because I don't need a book to tell me how to live my life, doesn't mean that I don't know God.
    How can it be the same God when your God says that you do not need His word, and my God says that you do?

    Quote:

    Every time someone tries to talk to you, you pull up a bible scripture.
    That is the standard of truth in doctrine that God gave us. What standard do you use?

    Tom, it is just a book, it's not the be all end all of everything.

    Quote:

    Maybe if you spent more time praying, talking to God, less time reading and quoting scripture, then you'd be able to understand that you and I, we pray to the same God, just in different ways.
    You do not even know me. By what means do you claim the authority to judge me and to judge my spiritual life and my walk with God?

    It is kind of ironic that you should do so when we look at the subject line:

    "Why can't people of different faiths accept one another?"

    You seem to feel that it is okay to judge others who disagree with you. By what authority do you claim this right? Or do you think that it is okay for you to judge others but that we cannot disagree with you, and cannot believe what the Bible says because you don't agree with it? There is a word for that attitude. Why can we not simply disagree and discuss respectfully?

    Then you said:

    Quote:

    So, for you to say that I am wrong and you are right, well, you don't have the power to determine that, only God does.
    Consider how that applies to your comments and judgments about me.

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