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You should start with "I believe" when you make a claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
A (religious) claim !
CLAIM : a statement that proposes a view, property, or quality, without being accompanied by objective supported evidence to support that claim as correct.
:rolleyes:
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Why because YOU can not speak for other peoples intents that they are not doing it because they are offended. That is YOUR conclusion. Since you don't see why they should or would do it because they are offended it means that you conclude without all the facts. That is why.:rolleyes:
Cred,
You have been blessed with superior intelligence that I for one can not nor would I want to keep up with.
But here is the thing... faith is a sprituality, that comes from your inner spirit, it's not to be laid out with a logical thought process. So your crusade to be shown proof, in a logical
Way, may never bear the fruit for which you seek.
My intelligence is not at stake here. We were discussing why a wild (religious) claim should be preceded by "I believe". Please do not try to change that subject, once you realize that your arguments are based logical quicksand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
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And good news for many here : I will be out for a couple of days with my grandchildren on holidays.
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:rolleyes:
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Cred, what did you eat nails for breakfast :). Yikes. I wasn't trying to change the topic, just trying to explain to you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Enjoy the grandchildren.
If I need any explanation I will ask for that... see you own previous post about IQ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
And thanks for your wish : I will ! :)
:rolleyes:
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Cred -
What is it about Christians that you so dislike? There appears to be a great deal of upset
That comes from you, why is that?
TOTAL NONSENSE !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
I do not dislike Christianity at all. My partner is a Christian for many decades, and I support her all the way in anything she wants, including support in her many religious activities. And over the years many Bishops and Archbishops have been been guests at our house, shared supper with us, drank our wine, and enjoyed our company.
I dislike those who try to change the subject once they feel or realize to have lost the argument.
I also dislike those who make (religious) claims they refuse to support, but still keep claiming they are "right".
And I dislike those who start posting cr*p when they get p*ssed after feeling or realizing that they just lost the argument.
If the shoe fits...
:rolleyes:
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One thing I do not argue about is religion and/or God's love.
Religion isn't a topic for "argument" - to prove wrong or right, but to openly discuss.
That's the way I see it.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../amh...tation_pos.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Cred - What is it about Christians that you so dislike? There appears to be a great deal of upset that comes from you, why is that?
TOTAL NONSENSE !!!
I do not dislike Christianity at all. My partner is a Christian for many decades, and I support her all the way in anything she wants, including support in her many religious activities. And over the years many Bishops and Archbishops have been been guests at our house, shared supper with us, drank our wine, and enjoyed our company.
I dislike those who try to change the subject once they feel or realize to have lost the argument.
I also dislike those who make (religious) claims they refuse to support, but still keep claiming they are "right".
And I dislike those who start posting cr*p when they get p*ssed after feeling or realizing that they just lost the argument.
If the shoe fits ...what size do you wear Cred? LOL
Cred. if you will note the original topic was: If someone does not believe in salvation, that does not make it untrue. Just as believing in salvation does not make it true. And if neither can be proven then how is one to decide what to believe?
I do not know whom or when it got so off topic, but if you will also note, in # 50, I tried to get back on topic and even went into more detail as to what I was asking. Also please note above the answer box it says "Answer this Question. So you and yours have been off topic for this entire board.
Don't go away mad, just go away...that was a joke...enjoy your grandkids, take more than a few days, take a week. They grow up so fast you should not miss a minute with them.
peace dear one,
Cred, I see in #5 you did notice the question, and even agreed it was a good question, but you answered it with another question. What is it they say about people who do that?
Seriously, I want to know. Anyone?
My reaction #88 was to a statement by Allheart, completely with quotation to ensure that everyone would understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
Yes : I agreed that YOUR question was a good question.
But does that mean one may not address other statements made in this topic ?
What is it they say about people who post replies like the one you did here?
Seriously, I want to know. Anyone?
"Sieg Heil" ? "Jawohl Herr Ober Truppen Anfuhrer" ?
:rolleyes:
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PS : from tomorrow I'm out for a couple of days with my grandchildren. So time enough for you to table all your frustrations , while you can...
:D :D :D :D :D
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I am not the one who is frustrated here. Why would you assume that?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Why is it that the best you can come up with is to repeat what the former poster says?
Can't you come up with anything original?
Why do you make statements that have no basic of proof? But only what you believe to be true.
Why do never answer a direct question?
Are you so afraid of failure?
I grade on the curve. :p:p
Sorry to disappoint you, but I pray out loud. Sometimes very loud. Sometimes I yell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Amen!!
I also pray in public.
And who said where prayer belongs and doesn't belong? I never said it doesn't belong in school. I was always better off praying before a test.
What you personally do is not my concern, although you do not seem to be very tolerant towards people with different religious or non-religious views.Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
All I stated was that as far schools are concerned "prayer is a personal activity, a personal silent time of reflection."
:rolleyes:
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Prayer is much more than just a personal thing.
We are called to pray for this nation.
2 Chronicles 7:14
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
We are called to teach the Word to children.
Deuteronomy 4:9
Only take heed to yourself, and diligently keep yourself, lest you forget the things your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. And teach them to your children and your grandchildren,
Romans 12:9
Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good.
God is good. Humans are not. Human understanding will fade and God's wisdom will not. I have to reject that which does not line up with the Word of God. Many things that I used to believe do not line up. I used to believe in many different religions, world views and found that nothing can stand in the Light of God's Word.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
And also,
2 Corinthians 10:5
casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
I tried to run from Him. It doesn't work when He decides He wants you.
2 Chronicles 7:14
if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Saved... I do not like savedsinner... you were a sinner, now you are saved, holy unto God the Father, washed in the Blood of Jesus, made the righteousness of God...
but that wasn't what I was going to say... We need this so much. We need God to heal our land. Good post.
God bless and keep you, child of God, beloved and precious in His sight.
Not true : to "heal their land" does not refer to any specific nation! And your "nation" was not even mentioned!Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
You were asked to pray, but may I remind you that JC cleared the temple of all misusers and of all phonies who used it to show others how "good" they were with their religious feelings?
To pray does not mean to pray loud for all to see and hear.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
You do err not knowing the Scriptures... but it is good to see that you finally acknowledge that JC did and does exist.
If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
That be Christians, Cred, in whatever land/nation they may live.....:rolleyes:
He cleared the temple because they were hypocrites, charging huge prices for offerings, and for 'changing money' and making big profits. they were stealing from the ones who were coming to worship.
I believe Christ died for the ungodly, that was us, now are we the sons/daughters of God because of Jesus Christ, whom you just acknowledged.
Jesus cleared the temple because He said it was to be a 'house of prayer'
NOW we are the temple of God. We are to pray at all times and in all ways. To pray without ceasing.
12And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
13And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
And our nation was indeed included, we were at one time without God, but Jesus is our peace bringing us into the family of God and the Blessing of Abraham upon us who believe. Abraham is the father of all those who believe, as the stars of the sky………
Genesis 17:5
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
Now, Cred, so you will not have to bother, let me answer for you... :)
That is just what you believe, there is no proof of your wild claims. That is just your belief. It is still all by faith.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
tsila1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Not true : to "heal their land" does not refer to any specific nation! And your "nation" was not even mentioned!
You were asked to pray, but may I remind you that JC cleared the temple of all misusers and of all phonies who used it to show others how "good" they were with their religious feelings?
To pray does not mean to pray loud for all to see and hear.
You do err not knowing the Scriptures... but it is good to see that you finally acknowledge that JC did and does exist.
If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
That be Christians, Cred, in whatever land/nation they may live...
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Exactly so if American's pray for THEIR land then it means THEIR land. IF they and/or Africans pray for Africa then it means Africa. It means whatever land is being prayed for in the prayer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
Its amazing how simple and obvious things are so difficult for Cred to understand.. lol :rolleyes:
I acknowledge that in the mythical bible story that is claimed to have happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
I will even accept that the human Jesus may have done such a thing.
What I do not acknowledge - because there is not one single iota of evidence for that - is that Jesus was God's son, nor that the supranatural deity "God" exists.
:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D
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Cred, maybe not yet but someday you will see.
Philippians 2:9-11 (New Living Translation)
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
And gave him the name above all other names,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
In heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
To the glory of God the Father.
:(Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
So then, Cred, I guess you will go to Hell, and be there for eternity. That's sad, but that is what I believe, that is my belief, I have no proof for my wild claim, but it is still the truth, and when you open your eyes in Hell, I want you to remember this, Tsila told me the truth and I refused to believe, now it is too late.
Because, if you believe it or not, in Hell, you will have your memory, and your senses, (finally*) and you will be able talk. You will wish you could send someone back to warn your loved ones. You will remember everyone who ever warned you, and you will remember ever time you denied God.
You will be there forever, without any hope of getting out. Wouldn’t it be, just in case I am right, worth opening your mind and considering that I could possibly be right? Just in case,……………….if I am wrong; what harm could there be for you. However, if I am right then you would have escaped eternal damnation. Are you willing to take that chance? Just because of pride, or whatever is holding you back.
It is such a simple thing to do, just believe, (and believing is a choice) in your heart, that Jesus is the Son of God and He died for your sins, and was raised for your justification. Confess you are a sinner and in need of a Savior, and ask Jesus to come into your heart. Then confess with your mouth that Jesus is now Lord of your life. And you will be saved.
It would only take a few minutes to do and would save you from never-ending torment.:eek:
Father, I pray for Cred, that You would open his eyes that he may see and his heart that he may understand faith. I pray that he would be willing to be willing to accept Jesus as his Lord and I bind any demons of hell that would come against him and try to stop him from turning from the wide road that leads to destruction, and place his feet on the narrow path that leads to salvation. I know there is nothing to hard for You, Father, and even though he seems hardened, You, in Your wisdom and Mighty Power can reach down and touch him and cause him to see the truth. The truth of a Loving Father Who gave His Own Son for him, for Cred, because You love him so much. In Jesus’ Holy and Precious Name, Amen
Sincerely,
*joke
You may BELIEVE that. But the real question is : will that indeed happen?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D
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So, you finally admit there is a question in your mind. That's good, Cred.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
But, I would not want to wait and see if I were you. If you don't repent, yes, it will happen, and you'll remember me, not as 'I told you so', but as one who tried to help you.
Again I see that that is only what you BELIEVE ! Fine with me if you want to believe that, but I prefer not to follow you in that belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
Science tells me that there is no reason for your supra-natural entity to exist. And that there seems to be no place where such an entity complete with heaven and hell are located.
Pascal provided with his wager the logical conclusion that christians are in the same position as other theists and non-theists : believing in an entity just out of fear for some claimed "final judgment" does not work. There is no guarantee that any religious claim is the correct one. All Christians do is believe in another god than other mono-theists do, believe in less gods than multi-theists do, or in one more god than non-believers do.
Theism, you and all your theist peers can not provide any objective supported evidence towards the existence of their deity.
Human history provides a good explanation why early humanity designed gods to "explain the unexplained".
Psychology provides good reasons the idea of a "fatherlike" god entity and of an afterlife helps many people to come to terms with disaster, illness, death, and the wish to see again those who over the years fell away.
Death does not worry me a bit. In my volunteer activities in the local hospes I see many people struggle with dying because of their fear for that "final judgment" idea that is brainwashed into them, to keep them in the flock. All of those are theists, most of them are Christians. But none of those afraid to die are Secular Humanists.
I have learned to live NOW. I take life to the fullest, and enjoy the existence of my wife, children, and grandchildren. And I make sure that I do not have to say ever "if I had ... " ever once it is too late. I realize that life is short and limited, and live accordingly.
Conclusion : I do not need all these wild religious claims. I can take all problems of life without having to focus on some claimed-to-exist entity that does not seem to have any inclination to connect "him"self with those "he" calls "his" children.
I can not accept the Old Testament : I can not "believe" in an entity that required humanity in it's apparent need for violence, bloodthistyness, revenge, and hatred for those who do not follow "his" wishes. And I do not need an entity that states that "he" loves all humans, but demands total obedience without which you are doomed and on your way to "hell".
I can not accept the New Testament : I do not need or want a "father" who allows his only "son" to be killed without trying to do anything against that. For a supra-natural entity that is claimed to have created an entire universe in 6 days only there were trillions of ways to prevent that, and find other ways to "save" his other "children".
BELIEVE whatever you like to believe.
But the chances that some ("final judgement" will happen are extremely low - zero as far as I am concerned - , and you'll NOT see nor remember me after your death, as by that time you really will be dead too. Death : no body functions left, no thoughts left. Nothing anymore. Just decay, and a source of nutrients for other lifeforms.
The only difference between us is that I can live with that thought, but that you require religious "hocus pocus" and the apparent belief that "Christ died for the ungodly" to come to terms with it. Fine with me ! But it does not make anything you BELIEVE into reality!!
:rolleyes:
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Cred, there are many claims here without proof.
Where is your proof that what we believe is false? Prove us wrong with real data. Search and find the proof for your claims that you demand of Christians.
Wrong approach SS7. I have never stated that you or any other one is wrong and/or that what you believe is false. From me you may believe whatever you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
However : what you believe is just that : BELIEF. If whatever one believes is reality depends on the validity of the supporting data, and not on what is believed and/or by whom.
Why would I prove you wrong? I have no need to prove you or anyone else wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
And why would I have to prove a negative (for instance) that God does not exist, if the believers in that "God" can not even provide objective supporting evidence for the existence of their "God"?
I suggest you do your homework, and stop accusing me from things I did not do, nor ask me to prove why something is NOT, while you yourself can not even support your own position in favor of the opposite.
:D
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[quote=Credendovidis]Again I see that that is only what you BELIEVE ! Fine with me if you want to believe that, but I prefer not to follow you in that belief. But you do follow us Cred, from board to board to 'try to drive us up the wall' right?
Science tells me that there is no reason for your supra-natural entity to exist. And that there seems to be no place where such an entity complete with heaven and hell are located. You believe science and their “seems to be” conclusion…because you chose to, not because there is any EVIDENCE. What science hasn't discovered yet is the spirit world.
Pascal provided with his wager the logical conclusion that Christians are in the same position as other theists and non-theists : believing in an entity just out of fear for some claimed "final judgment" does not work. There is no guarantee that any religious claim is the correct one. All Christians do is believe in another god than other mono-theists do, believe in less gods than multi-theists do, or in one more god than non-believers do. Pascal himself didn't address the question of other religions in his section on the wager, presumably because throughout the rest of Pensées (and in his other works) he examined alternatives, like stoicism, paganism, Islam, and Judaism, and concluded that if any faith is correct, it would be the Christian faith.
Theism, you and all your theist peers can not provide any objective supported evidence towards the existence of their deity. Theistic evolution, less commonly known as evolutionary creationism, is the general opinion that some or all classical religious teachings about God and creation are compatible with some or all of the modern scientific understanding about biological evolution. Theistic evolution is not a theory in the scientific sense, but a particular view about how the science of evolution relates to some religious interpretations. In this way, theistic evolution supporters can be seen as one of the groups who deny the conflict thesis regarding the relationship between religion and science; that is, they hold that religious teachings about creation and scientific theories of evolution need not be contradictory.
Human history provides a good explanation why early humanity designed gods to "explain the unexplained". History? You mean books written by men, who twist facts and give their own interpretation of events? Including but not confined to the 'Indian wars'? This is not even a bad example of anything to do with nothing.
Psychology provides good reasons the idea of a "fatherlike" god entity and of an afterlife helps many people to come to terms with disaster, illness, death, and the wish to see again those who over the years fell away. So, this is supposed to be evidence? Good reasons are not proof. Good reasons are opinions; it is what they believe.
Death does not worry me a bit. In my volunteer activities in the local hospes I see many people struggle with dying because of their fear for that "final judgment" idea that is brainwashed into them, to keep them in the flock. All of those are theists, most of them are Christians. But none of those afraid to die are Secular Humanists.
I have learned to live NOW. I take life to the fullest, and enjoy the existence of my wife, children, and grandchildren. And I make sure that I do not have to say ever "if I had ... " ever once it is too late. I realize that life is short and limited, and live accordingly. That's good, because in the afterlife you will say, “if I had only…”
Conclusion : I do not need all these wild religious claims. I can take all problems of life without having to focus on some claimed-to-exist entity that does not seem to have any inclination to connect "him"self with those "he" calls "his" children. But that's where you have misunderstanding, Cred, he does want so very much to connect to His children. That's why He created us, for fellowship with Him.
I can not accept the Old Testament : I can not "believe" in an entity that required humanity in it's apparent need for violence, bloodthistyness, revenge, and hatred for those who do not follow "his" wishes. And I do not need an entity that states that "he" loves all humans, but demands total obedience without which you are doomed and on your way to "hell". Humanity is violent, bloodthirsty, and full of hate, He wants to give us peace, and rest. It was not God that 'required' such things; it is satan and his revenge on God trying to destroy those He loves. But Jesus came and defeated satan, and now it is a person's choice if they want to be violent and bloodthirsty. If all humanity would turn to God Who is Love there would be no more war.
I can not accept the New Testament : I do not need or want a "father" who allows his only "son" to be killed without trying to do anything against that. For a supra-natural entity that is claimed to have created an entire universe in 6 days only there were trillions of ways to prevent that, and find other ways to "save" his other "children". It was necessary for Jesus to die as He did in order to save those who would believe. It was God's love for us, that He allowed His Son to died; so that Jesus would be the firstborn of many brethren. After Adam sinned, there had to be redemption in order for there to be 'other children'. It was God in the flesh; He gave Himself…God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
BELIEVE whatever you like to believe. I will, and I do not need your permission.
But the chances that some ("final judgement" will happen are extremely low - zero as far as I am concerned - , and you'll NOT see nor remember me after your death, as by that time you really will be dead too. Death : no body functions left, no thoughts left. Nothing anymore. Just decay, and a source of nutrients for other lifeforms. That is your belief, you have no proof, there is no evidence that what you believe is true. I know this earthly body will die, but my spirit which is the real me will live on, and so will yours.
The only difference between us is that I can live with that thought, but that you require religious "hocus pocus" and the apparent belief that "Christ died for the ungodly" to come to terms with it. Fine with me ! But it does not make anything you BELIEVE into reality!! On this, we almost agree…I do require. I require the Blood of Jesus to cleanse me from all unrighteousness, so that I can live with Him forever in glory; in the pleasures of the Lord. Oh, what glory divine…I do not fear death, I have passed from death unto life. For me death will be like taking off a heavy coat, nothing more. Oh grave where is thy victory, oh death where is thy sting.
I done typed myself happy, praise God for His Mercy, and Grace. Blessed be the Name of the Lord. Praise, Glory and Honor to Him that sits on the throne.
Cred, I cannot prove it, but I can feel the Presence of God right now, and it is wonderful.
:rolleyes:
What TOTAL NONSENSE is that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
About half of all my posts are on the technical boards, and about all others are on the members discussion boards, with most of those on this religious discussions board.
So WHAT FOLLOWING are you babbling about?
You still have problems with your paranoia, I see!!
:D
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If Cred doesn't care what Christians believe, then why does he post so many times ridiculing that faith? Methinks he doth protest too much! (Apologies to Shakespeare)
If Cred doesn't care what Christians believe, then why does he post so many times ridiculing that faith? Methinks he doth protest too much! (Apologies to Shakespeare)
Metoo!
SO he posts 6,000 on the other boards and that still leaves 577 here what does that prove as to not following the religious boards around AND THIS IS ON the Member Discussions! So what's the point?
Who says I am ridiculing the Christian faith? If I ridicule (I said IF !!!) than I ridicule the lack of value and content of most theist posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1 + Nohelp4u
See your own two posts here, which I refer to now! Do you think that is the way to address someone who repeatedly REQUESTED support of your religious views?
What about that part of your Christian Mission to "spread the word"?
All you do is poo on my previous post. But what positive thought(s) do you have to add yourself?
All you two can do is utter your frustrations...
:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D
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I didn't say you ridicule it I said you DO follow the religious boards but that IS your prerogative any way.
:( AGAIN, of all that I responded to your post... this is the best that you can do!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
I am disappointed in you, Cred.
I thought you would at least have the guts to read all of it and respond appropriately; instead, you go on the offense like most... Well we all know why people get offensive don't we?
I know the best defense is offense…but how…well I do not want to stoop to your level and analyze you or call you names, but honestly, Cred, you are just so obvious.
By the way, your diagnosis was completely wrong…where did you get your PHD?
I did. I just did not find it necessary to react to every line in your post 113 any further than I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
I note that you did not replied to the two simple questions I asked you :
- What TOTAL NONSENSE is that ?
- WHAT FOLLOWING are you babbling about?
So you have no answers to that, I have to assume...
:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D
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