I think we should all just run around naked!Quote:
Originally Posted by rockerchick_682
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I think we should all just run around naked!Quote:
Originally Posted by rockerchick_682
Lol great idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma
I agree...
What?:confused::( You are so right, that was ridiculous!Quote:
Originally Posted by rockerchick_682
I have no idea what you think you are trying to say.
If you mean my question of why some gay women like to look, act, talk, walk like men... I was sincerely curious. I mean if a gay woman wants another woman, then why would she want one that is so much like a man? That was my question.
By the way, and I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but I have this joke... no, you couldn't handle it and they would close the board again. But it is soooooooooooooooooo funny. I'll tell you all but the punch line, there a new pill for gay women.. it's called _______________. ROFLMAO If anyone wants to know the answer ask me via email.
Sorry, Peace
But you said the were "demon possesed", that doesn't sound like someone doing something willfully.
Darling,
No one can be demon possessed unless they allow it, otherwise we would all be demon possessed. Understand?
Peace
"One’s sexual life is a private matter, whether you chose to be gay or not. So, why do gays like to advertise it?"
This is what I was responding to. Why do priests wear funny clothes to advertise that they're priests?
I'm simply saying that everyone advertises who they are in one way or another and targeting one group because you believe they are "possessed" is hypocritical.
Yes, it is a private matter to an extent- but when we are discriminated against in the public arena (jobs, health coverage, ability to marry, etc.) then it becomes a more public matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
Why do we like to advertise it? That's just a silly question- why do you want us to hide it? You 'advertise' that you're straight, I'm sure. Do you have a husband/boyfriend? If you do, or if you did, would you hold his hand in public? Is that 'advertising'? Or are you just being who you are?
And if you were looked down upon for doing so all year long, wouldn't you just want to cut loose on the one day that was set aside for you (Pride) to be who you are without judgment from others?
And why do gay women try to look,d ress, walk and act like men? They don't. They may not all fit into the traditional gender stereotypes- everyone is a mix of feminine and masculine- maybe they're just not trying so hard to suppress their masculinity... and in either case, that is a generalization. Those are the lesbians you are AWARE of (because of how they appear, of course)- there are PLENTY who look just like you... and you wouldn't even know unless you knew them personally.
So, now I'm demon possessed, eh? Read through my posts, get a general idea of who I am, see how I conduct myself on this board, in dicussions I have with people... is that how a 'demon-posessed' person typically behaves?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
And really, do you think that long list of characteristics applies to gay people... for real? Do you know anyone who is gay? Have you ever been close with someone who is gay? From your post, I would presume not-
Not trying to make others 'approve'- just trying to be who we are, and enjoying some time where we can freely do so. And being 'perverted'? By your peception, maybe. But not by mine. I'm being who I am, and am not ashamed.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
Really, tsila, read through my posts again- can you honestly tell me that you have no understanding of anything I've written?
I have worked with many homosexual people, and I have found most to be pleasant people to work with, I have been friends with some, as in having lunch breaks together, but that does not mean I have to approve of their lifestyle. I actually prefer to work with men who are gay then the women. The women creep me out. That's how they make me feel.
One girl, A, a college student, rather pretty until you saw her up close, started dating another not so attractive girl B that I worked with A saw B only a few times and then broke off with her. It broke B's heart, she was so upset. But A was only using her, I overheard her on the phone with C and I know she was just using her. That hurt me. Because B was so hurt, she was a nice person.
But I still do not approve of the lifestyle and if you are having so much trouble getting jobs, etc, then why do you display your sex lives as part of who you are? Keep your private life private and get a job.
So is THAT the essence of what you have against homosexuality ? Really ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
Would you have approved that mis-use if one had been a boy, and the other a girl ?
If not : do you not see what an empty argument you provided here?
If so : that shows you are just a sexist...
:D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockerchick_682
How is that hypocritical? I do not like the way priests dress either. I do not like the way teenagers dress these days. I do not like the way, extremely huge people wear tong bathing suits to the beach.:eek:
But they complain that they can't get a job because of their sex lives, so why bring their sex lives into the interview room?
I did not mean to imply that all gay people were possessed, those I saw pictures of in the parade... I do honestly believe they were. There are people who are not gay that are possessed. Do I have to qualify every little tad bit of every post to keep the nit pickers happy?:rolleyes:
Oh Cred, I thought you were going to be with your grandchildren. Maybe they can teach you how to read. And stop calling me names! I wasn't arguing here Cred, I was 'telling a story', I was answering a question read the whole thing before you make yourself look so silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Go play with your grandchildren and be happy for a while.
And that is the best you can do ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
So that shows you are just a sexist...
:rolleyes:
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Is that the best you can do? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
I was asked or it was said that I did not know any gay people, and I was responding to that... which you obviously did not read so that you did not understand the response. Your misunderstanding is what has brought us here.
I was explaining that I do indeed know a lot of gay people, and the ones I know are like any other people, they can be friends, they can be cruel and they can get their hearts broken. And I can have compassion on the ones who are used and mistreated by another, whatever the sex. It just happened that this couple were female. I also am female, Cred. Duh!
Has nothing at all to do with anything. Get over it, already.
Is this really the topic here Cred? Is Tsila a sexist? I don't think so. Get back on topic please.
Well Tsila, I completely understand why anyone, man or woman, wouldn't enjoy working with you. :D Nothing would get done!
Well Tsila, I completely understand why anyone, man or woman, wouldn't enjoy working with you. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../ima...es/biggrin.gif Nothing would get done!
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by this, it's almost 4 A.M. can't sleep again because of the pain, may be that's what is clouding my brain.
Would you mind explaining, please.
Much later... did you mean you could understand why anyone would not enjoy working with me? From where did you get this information that people did not enjoy working with me? On what basis do you state as fact that 'nothing would get done'?
Or did you mean to say that you could completely understand why anyone would enjoy working with me? If so, why and why would nothing get done?
Since you put the https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../ima...es/biggrin.gif I am confused. :confused:
Please explain.:)
Thanks
Tsila-Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
When I get weird looks from people at work because I have a picture of myself and my partner on my desk (even though they have pictures of THEIR families on their desks)- or when I have to use gender-neutral terms to talk about my life, so as not to let on that I'm in a relationship with a woman- when I have to watch what I do in public (simple things, like holding hands with the person I love) so that in case I run into anyone from work, they don't catch on... that's what I'm talking about.
It's not that I 'dress like a man' and 'advertise' it- but the normal things that anyone in a relationship would do, I have to put extra thought into.
And I've had situations where my sexual orientation made my employers so uncomfortable, that they were ready to fire me (at which point, I quit-) But I did nothing to 'advertise' it- I lived my life the way any straight person would live theirs- except my significant other was a woman. And that was too much for some people to handle, and I in turn had to suffer the consequences of their bias-
Unfair. I'm not asking just looking for acceptance from people and an 'ok' to do as I please in my private life- I already do that-
But you know as well as I do that private life and work life and public life... they're not all completely independent of one another. It's not as easy and clear cut as you seem to believe it to be.
Having never walked a mile in your shoes, I truly cannot understand what you have to deal with, on the other hand, I do still believe that is it a chosen lifestyle so that is the only way I can look at it. And since so many people believe the way I do, please try to understand our outlook on it. Just to see where we are coming from….
We, who believe that your lifestyle is a chosen one, we do not believe you were born that way, and we believe it is against God, have this point of view.
You chose a lifestyle that you knew was not accepted, you knew there would be consequences such as you have described, but you chose it anyway, and then you complain because those consequences did occur. My point of view…. You walking in my shoes is…what right do you have to complain and try to 'make us accept' a lifestyle that you chose to live?
I do not like it that the white man came over here to our land and slaughter most of my people, and put the rest on reservations. They tried to 'make us give up everything we had ever believed in and our language, our customs and when my people did conform to their way of life… they still took them from their homes by force and put them in pins in the heat of summer and many died…. Trail of tears.” And they still consider us dogs.
As a child, I was told not to tell anyone that I was Cherokee. Mommy warned me to 'hide' that fact. I was born this way…and still I have been persecuted for it.
We have our Pow Wows, and the white man comes to watch us dance, and entertain them. But there was a time not that long ago, when some Indians were dancing, the white man shot them, old men and women died because they were Indian and dancing.
Now they let us entertain them with dancing. I guess time changes things; you just have to wait for it and hope you live to see it.
Now we have the casinos…sweet revenge, legal scalping. Yeah!
I will never accept your lifestyle as 'normal', but I will never treat you the way most people do. As I explained, (to which Cred called me sexist against women, and I am a woman)…I know and like many gay people. I do not think they are any different from other people. I mean like the white people think of Indians. Gay people, like all people, have feelings, temptations, some are nice, some are cruel, some are disgusting some are…. Get the picture?
All people are the same, only they look different, believe different and some are too tired of trying to conform to others way of life and beliefs. I will stay with mine. I will not give in; I will fight to the death for the right to believe the way I believe.
As so many young men and women have died to give me that right, I refuse to dishonor them.
Sorry this is so long, but I am tired of all of this. People on here attack me for my belief; they make hateful comments to me. You are not the only one who is persecuted for their chosen lifestyle, my faith. Therefore, I guess in a way, I do walk in your shoes on some level.
I hope you can understand my point.
Wado luli
way-t-te, ga-lv-quo-do-di, tsi-sa.
All people are the same, only they look different, believe different and some are too tired of trying to conform to others way of life and beliefs.
Well, that's one thing we can agree upon! I know everyone's beliefs are important to them- and they should do their best to live by their own beliefs ( I know I do ) - and, of course, everyone is entitled to believe as they wish- but they shouldn't belittle others for not adhering to beliefs that are not their own, and they shouldn't try to force their beliefs upon others- let people do as they please, and if it doesn't please you to do it, don't- but don't try to make others stop, esp. when it's not hurting anyone else.
The point of the parade is not to make everyone gay- it's to make everyone aware that we exist and are equal with everyone else- and it's to celebrate who we are in the face of adversity and discrimination-
We don't go out trying to make anyone else gay- but they come there trying to make us straight. Do you see the difference?
I hope you didn't see my posts as an 'attack'- just trying to clarify some things, and understand better where you're coming from, and show where I'm coming from as well. We disagree on this, for sure, since I don't believe it was a choice- and honestly, even if it were a choice, it's the choice that fulfills me and makes me happy-
It doesn't necessarily mean I should be forced to deal with the consequences
Kind of like the comparison you made about christianity- your CHOOSE to be christian because you believe it is the RIGHT way for you to be- it's what fulfills you, and the personal rewards you reep living your life as a christian by choice make it worth the crap you may sometimes have to deal with from others.
But you shouldn't have to put up with that crap silently- just like I shouldn't have to put up with crap from other people silently.
And sometimes, I just need to get together with other people like me, and be proud of who I am- it helps deal with all the times when it has to remain so hidden.
Okay, I have read all the previous posts and I'm not going to "jump" in to the argument, I just want to say a few things;
1. If you believe that God created everything (which I do) then he created homosexuals too.
2. Why would you "choose" to be gay if it is a choice? The world is a cruel place and there is so much hatred for people, especially gay's, so really, why would you choose it? It's not a choice, gay people are born gay, not raised gay, not provoked to be gay, not tricked to be gay, not possessed, they just are gay!
3. In Canada Gay people can get married. :)
4. I've never been to a gay pride parade, but I would go to support my gay friends.
Having said that, most of the people who posted about their disgust at homosexuality think that this is a lifestyle, or a choice, it isn't. I myself am not gay, nor am I bi, I'm heterosexual, I've know that from the beginning. I have allot of gay friends, and we talk openly with each other about their lives, because they are good friends I have asked them allot of questions about when they realized they where gay. Most of my friends say this "I didn't realize that I was gay, I always knew, I just realized that I couldn't keep pretending to be straight".
Live and let live, try and understand, you might be surprised.
And that's all I have to say.
Peace. :)
No, Margog, I did not feel you were attacking me. You are one of the nicest people on this board. You only wanted to understand and you were decent enough to ask questions, and even nice enough to answer questions without any snide remarks. Thank you.
We could most likely be friends. I will accept what you believe, you accept what I believe and we will not argue about who is right or wrong or put down each other for being different.
What I said about complaining, perhaps that was not the right word, I meant you knew there would be consequences, and you know some people will never accept your lifestyle, but they do not have the right to harass you. They are not acting as Christians should. But you can't judge us all by a few.
We don't go out trying to make anyone else gay- but they come there trying to make us straight. Do you see the difference?
Of course I do. Imagine if can me as a little girl, proud of who I am, sitting in all white school, 'learning' about white man's history. When I made a feeble attempt to defend the Indians, who though their eyes were savages, I was reprimanded by my teacher.
All the white men of history were heroes; the Indians were vermin to be eliminated. They taught of the Indian attacks, how they massacred the white settlers... but not of how the white men murdered the Indian women and children and made tobacco pouches of certain parts of the women. Or of the peace treaties, that they never intended to keep.
I made very low marks in history, I guess that is why I hate it so much... it is not factual.
I knew there was no point in trying to defend my people, so I had to sit there and 'learn' their 'truths'. Even the women of history got no credit for their contribution.
Some things we just have to endure until times change.
Like I said, now they no longer shoot us for dancing they come to be entertained, perhaps someday, they will line the streets to watch your parades instead of following you with signs.
And sometimes, I just need to get together with other people like me, and be proud of who I am
My point: the pictures I saw on the news of the gay parade here in Atlanta, were not just people celebrating; they were horrible pictures. But as we have agreed already, even people who believe the same way do not always act the same way. Those pictures were not of people celebrating, and being proud, they were, and I do not use this term lightly, “in your face,” I am sure not everyone there was acting that way, but some were.
They were almost completely naked and imitating the sex act, that is not what the parade, as you described it, was supposed to be, was it? To me, no one, gay or straight should act that way, to me, that is perverted, they looked and acted demon possessed.
That is what is disgusting to me, if it had been anyone else, it would have been equally disgusting. Do you understand? That was inappropriate behavior for anyone. And if you want to show people you are just like everyone else, this was not a good way of doing so. Can you agree with that? And I do not judge all by those few. That is the only parade I have seen pictures of; so that is all I have to go by in my discussion.
It doesn't necessarily mean I should be forced to deal with the consequences
I did not say you should have to be forced to deal with the consequences. I said you knew what the consequences would be……….. big difference. I knew what the consequences would be to tell I was Cherokee, so I did not tell. I did not want to deal with the consequences. I know that is a weak comparison, but it is the best I can do for the moment. I think you will get my point, while others may shoot ridicule at me. So be it.
I know what the consequences are of telling my faith in God and what I believe; you have seen some of the remarks I get. It's becoming rather boring, these people, who for lack of vocabulary cannot come up with anything better than that is your belief or that is what you believe, its not been proven, it's not a fact. Some even suggest that I have to start every sentence with this is what I believe…. while they can say anything as if it were a proven fact. Double standard and they cannot even see that.
While I have met some nice people on here, it is like your parade, we cannot even have a polite discussion without 'those people', coming on here and harassing us. So, you see, I do understand more than you realize.
Wado
Actually it does not matter one iota that you are Cherokee,. or asian, or jewish, or black, or a labourer, or a paraplegic. What consequences did you expect?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
This oneQuote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
I'm confused. Can you explain?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
When you are a Cherokee in a mostly white community, in the 50's and 60's you do not tell. There were others and we knew who each other were. We could talk among ourselves. But if the white people knew, they would come around us, with two fingers at the back of their heads to represent feathers, and making noises while 'patting' their mouths to imitate 'our songs', and imitate our dances. They made fun of us. It was an insult to our culture.
I did not mean that I would face consequences on this board, I meant as a young girl, 5 years old, in school. My 'tan' lasted through the winter, but my eyes are green and my hair was blond, but quickly turned to what is considered a dark brown. I could pass as white. That is what we had to do, pass as white, or be tormented by other children.
As I grew older, I proudly announced that I am Cherokee. I accepted the consequences.
This was a small part of a very long message directed to Margog, and has no importance on its own. It was to give an example that I know, at least to some degree, how it feels to be harassed by others who do not like who you are i.e. those who followed the parade with signs and yelled insults at them.
Now, would you mind explaining what you meant? Because apparently, I misunderstood therefore my answer.
My reply was a "consequence". I was basically telling you that people are accepted here regardless of physical characteristics/race/etc. I think you owe me an apology.
Think as you please, I misunderstood your meaning. I do not feel I owe you an apology. Why do you think so?
You made it appear as if my response was an example of why you keep your heritage hidden (i.e. I'm a bad guy) when it was nothing of the sort.
We're getting off topic, let's try to stay on track okay? Thanks. :)
Sure, if she stops the disparaging comments. I also stick up for myself when someone attacks me.
It was a misunderstanding. Can't you two just shake virtual hands and move on? Let's not close down another thread because of petty fighting. Okay? Really, I'm just trying to stop this before it gets out of hand. :)
I read her posts and she makes me cry tears of hurt and pain the way she portrays me.
Is it possible that you are just taking it a bit personally, even though it wasn't intended that way?
We all get upset at times when someone writes something on the board that we take personally, and we feel the need to attack that person right back, it's human nature, I know I am guilty of it too, boy am I ever. ;)
Okay, I'm done trying to end this, it's up to the two of you now.
Peace. :)
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Actually it does not matter one iota that you are Cherokee, ... or asian, or jewish, or black, or a labourer, or a paraplegic. What consequences did you expect?
Then why didn’t you say that in the first place instead of the first post? If you had make yourself clear the first time, none of this would have been necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
If you are so tolerate of everyone, then surely you can accept that someone who has been tormented for his or her heritage would be sensitive when someone says my heritage does not matter one iota. It does matter to me... and the question, “what consequences did you expect” came off to me as another put down; as if I should expect consequences; as if I deserved the consequences that I got. I explained that I misunderstood your post. Is that not sufficient? If you would make yourself more clear and explain what you mean, and not expect people to ‘read between the lines' then I would have responded differently or not at all.
Is this really worth debating; as it has nothing to do with the topic here? Perhaps we should start our own debate on another board. And get other opinions to the question if I owe you an apology. Or if you owe me one for saying my heritage does not matter one iota.
It doesn't... on an anonymous internet discussion board, that's the beauty of it. The New Yorker said it best in 1993:Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/gerv/...ternet_dog.jpg
You made it appear as if my response was an example of why you keep your heritage hidden (i.e. I'm a bad guy) when it was nothing of the sort.
So your first post was correct, You consider me a dog because I'm Cherokee.
Your story was very moving, and certainly convinced me that you do understand margog's experience, probably better than I, who have never been persecuted or made to feel ashamed of who I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
But in spite of that personal experience, you can still post a comment like this one:I notice that it isn't your Cherokee heritage that you cite as the basis of your belief that homosexuality is caused by demon possession. I hope and trust that eventually your native cultural empathy will outweigh your adopted religious antipathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsila1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
I agree, I did not make myself clear, but as I also explained in that same post, or one post to Margog, I was meaning the ones I saw on the news of the Atlanta parade. The only example of gay parades I have known. To me they did look and act demon possessed. And it not only some gays who can be demon possessed, but anyone who allows it. This is my belief...for your benefit, I will clearify that.
I need to take my own advice and make myself clear on here. Thanks for pointing this out. I apologize for making that general remark. I apologize to Margog and to you and anyone who was offended by this remark.
I am at work and do not have time for a long response.
Just wanted to say thank you for your apology- it is appreciated and accepted.
:)
You are a good person, Margog. I'm pleased to have 'met' you. I thank you for your kindness and understanding.
Thank you. :) It has been a pleasure discussing this with you and taking the time to 'talk' about things, and understand one another better.
I really honestly believe that if people LISTENED to one another, and explained things to each other without the typical arrogance of 'I'm right and you're wrong no matter what you say' attitude that we see so often on these boards- there would be a lot less anger in the world, and people would really be able to live together more peacefully.
Like we've said... there are a lot less differences between people than often assumed- and most people can relate to one another on some level, if they take the time to talk rather than argue. And when you have that common understanding, which is attainable if people take the time to listen to each other... it makes peaceful coexistence very simple, even when you don't agree-
Again, I'm still at work, so I can't respond as fully as I'd like. Just wanted to pop in and thank you for a much needed compliment on a very hectic and crazy day. Your post was one of the few things today that has made me smile. :)
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