Ask Me Help Desk - The story of creation

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Originally Posted by michealb

If you really think that way, why don't you write a paper about it and when your paper gets published use it to laugh at the scientific community. You're a college student you should have the knowledge of how to get a paper published. I would actually applaud your efforts if you got the paper published because that would show that we have a serious flaw in way we conduct science

Why would I laugh at the scientific community..? Its not like they don't already know that there are unverifiable assumptions used as premise in dating the universe/earth. They already know that!. lol Its only athiestic zealots like Credo who are so desperate for it to be true that they are willing to ignore the fact that the assuptions used as a premise could very well be inaccurate. You take the leap of faith that these assuptions are correct despite the fact that it is impossible to verify them. A leap of FAITH I am not willing to take.

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However, if you actually studied something Sassy you would know that there is more evidence for the date of the universe that what you call "radio dating". You would rather argue out of ignorance though. The big bang isn't an easy idea to wrap your head around.
Here is a good place to start to get why we think the big bang is currently the best model for the formation of our universe
Frequently Asked Questions in Cosmology

Michealb, I am not ignorant of the Big Bang theory, I know the ins and outs of it. I have studied it. I just don't Believe it is true. There is a difference between knowing about it and actually believing it is true. There are many scientific problems with the theory which I believe, make the theory impossible and I am not alone on that, many scientists share the same opinion.
On the websit you posted one of the first sentences was "The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven."

So why are you so eager to convince me to believe in something that has not been proven to be true. It is just a theory. I can find literally thousands of scientific websites and journals that refute this theory.
Last time I checked Believing in The big bang theory is not a prerequisite to becoming a scientist. So I don't know why you equate my disbeliefe its validity with my not being a science student. :rolleyes:

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I know you won't read it because it's the work of the devil but maybe someone who is on the fence and thinks you have good points will read it and realise that you don't.

You are right I will not read work of the devil... :mad: but you posted it anyway didn't you?
Just kidding:D
I did read your link and it is not anything I don't already know. I has not been proven true, therefore I do not believe it to be true.

Finish out the quote Sassy instead of taking things out of context.

"The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven. Many of these facts are consistent with the Big Bang and some other cosmological models, but taken together these observations show that the Big Bang is the best current model for the Universe."

It's not a matter of accepting it as true or not it's a matter of theories that fit with evidence because even if these theories are incorrect it going to be proven they are incorrect by someone who knows why the theories fit the evidences and why they were good theories to begin with.

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Originally Posted by michealb

Finish out the quote Sassy instead of taking things out of context.

"The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven. Many of these facts are consistent with the Big Bang and some other cosmological models, but taken together these observations show that the Big Bang is the best ??? current model for the Universe."

It is the "best" model according to this authors opninion
The fact still remains that there are many scientific problems with model and it has not been proven!

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Originally Posted by sassyT

You BELIEVE the universe is 14.5 billion years.

No I don't believe that. Science provides excellent evidence for the universe to be around that age.

5000 Trillion years or 6.300 years shows how poor your scientific knowledge actually is.
Specially for someone who claimed repeatedly to have a degree in Biology...

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

No I don't believe that. Science provides excellent evidence for the universe to be around that age.

Yeah! Evidence that is based on 5 ASSUMPTIONS... lol So you BELIEVE in that 14.3 billion age despite the fact that it based on several unproven premises. :rolleyes:

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5000 Trillion years or 6.300 years shows how poor your scientific knowledge actually is.
Specially for someone who claimed repeatedly to have a degree in Biology...

It shows that I dont just BELIEVE stuff that is based on unproven assuptions. Like I said before my 5000 trillion guess is as good as your 14.3 billion guess.:)

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Originally Posted by sassyT

Yeah! evidence that is based on 5 ASSUMPTIONS... So you BELIEVE in that 14.3 billion age despite the fact that it based on several unproven premises.

You don't seem to understand the moronic content of these words, specially in view of your total acceptance of - and faith in - some invisible deity whose existence is not support at all, other than by religious wild claims... :D

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Originally Posted by sassyT

It shows that i dont just BELIEVE stuff that is based on unproven assuptions. Like i said before my 5000 trillion guess is as good as your 14.3 billion guess.:)

Again :
You don't seem to understand the moronic content of these words, specially in view of your total acceptance of - and faith in - some invisible deity whose existence is not support at all, other than by religious wild claims... :D

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:rolleyes: :p ;)

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

You don't seem to understand the moronic content of these words, specially in view of your total acceptance of - and faith in - some invisible deity whose existence is not support at all, other than by religious wild claims .... :D

Again :
You don't seem to understand the moronic content of these words, specially in view of your total acceptance of - and faith in - some invisible deity whose existence is not support at all, other than by religious wild claims .... :D

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Lol... Again you don't seem to understand that I know my beliefs rely on faith because there is no 100% factual evidence for them. And I am rational enough to admit this. The problem is you refuse to acknowledge the fact that your BELIEFS are not facts and therefore rely on FAITH like just like mine. The sooner your come to terms with this reality, the a sooner I will stop confronting you for evidence. ;)

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Originally Posted by sassyT

The problem is you refuse to acknowledge the fact that your BELIEFS are not facts and therefore rely on FAITH like just like mine.

The problem is you refuse to accept that facts never can be part of BELIEF , and that all you have to show is FAITH in your religious and unsupported wild claims.

You may sometime become a real biologist, if you no longer waste your (and our) time on this board with your nonsense, but put your nose in your books and start studying hard !

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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I know this may be a bit late but when I read it and seen it was not addressed I had to take a stab at it.

Sassy Wrote

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lol.. Credo you are making a purely subjective claims here. What evidence do you have that the Bible is "just stories".
The Bible is actually a valid historical document. Its historicity has been proven to be consistent with other Historical Documents that have been found. I will give you one example.. It is a historical fact that the Isrealites were held in captivity by the Egyptians as stated in the Book of Exodus. There isrecord of this on Ancient Egptian papyrus written by Egyptians at that time. As a matter of fact, the Egptians even wrote about a series of calamities that Egypt experienced that are consistent with the Bible's account of the 7 Plagues of Egypt sent by God. The Egyptians even wrote about their rivers turning to Blood just like the Bible states.
Read this like on the encyclopedia, particularly the section on Historicity...
Plagues of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

First I have to ask if you even read the whole thing? That page from the wik does little for your argument.

Here is a better link if anyone is interested in some real history.

The Israelite Exodus from Egypt

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Originally Posted by Onan

First I have to ask if you even read the whole thing?? That page from the wik does little for your argument.

The point is not if in the Bible some correct stories can be found. I assume there are indeed some historically more or less correct stories in it.

The essence of the Bible is the real point : are the Biblical claims of the existence of a supra-natural deity called "God", and of that "God" being the "Creator" valid ?
The answer to that is : no there is nothing in the Bible to VALIDATE these claims. Validate as in objective supporting evidence and as in scientific proof.

Religion is based on belief and faith only. And no Bible or Kuran or Vedas can change anything to that.

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

The problem is you refuse to accept that facts never can be part of BELIEF , and that all you have to show is FAITH in your religious and unsupported wild claims.

Lol there you go again with your wild claim. So your belief is in a Big Bang that created all we see today is fact?
Factual evidence please :rolleyes:

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You may sometime become a real biologist, if you no longer waste your (and our) time on this board with your nonsense, but put your nose in your books and start studying hard !

I have ample time to study because unlike you, I am not on this site 24 hours a day even at odd hours of the night. I work at my University library part time during the day so that's why I can afford the time to discuss religion on line. At least I am getting paid while I am on this forum. :D
You on the other hand are just wasting your time arguing about something you find as ridiculous as the boogeyman. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Onan

I know this may be a bit late but when I read it and seen it was not addresed I had to take a stab at it.

Sassy Wrote

First I have to ask if you even read the whole thing?? That page from the wik does little for your argument.

Here is a better link if anyone is interested in some real history.

The Israelite Exodus from Egypt

I don't believe in online conspiracy theories that deny historical events. I bet this same site you posted will also deny that the Holocaust happened. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sassyT

So your belief is in a Big Bang that created all we see today is fact? Factual evidence please

As has been stated to you by many and repeatedly : I do not believe in a Big Bang.
I have always stated clearly that all scientific findings point out that some 14.3 Billion years a super fast expansion of space/time took place during a very short time interval, something that popularly received the name `the Big Bang´. I have never claimed anything else.
And no : the `Big Bang´ did not create all we see today. Why do you suggest that ?

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Originally Posted by sassyT

At least i am getting paid while i am on this forum

Fine for you! I do not need a pay check. I pay people their salaries.

:D ;) :p :rolleyes: :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I do not believe in a Big Bang.

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Good! I don't believe in a big bang too, I think it is a hoax
We have something incommon! :p

So why are we even arguing? :confused:

;)

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Fine for you! I do not need a pay check. I pay people their salaries.

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Considering that you are on a religious forum 24 7, I would emagine you probably don't have time to run a business, what do you have employees for? Did you hire people to do all the stuff you should be doing like spending time with your family, friends, reading, working out, doing something constructive with your life... instead of harassing people on religious forums. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sassyT

I dont believe in a big bang too, i think it is a hoax

You believe in something much wilder : you believe that there is a so far invisible deity that has supra-natural powers, that always existed, and that created the universe some 6.300 years ago in 6 days. The Big Bang thesis is not a hoax. It is a good representation of many scientific findings that are perfectly cross referencing. The deity story you believe in is without any objective support, and lacking any probability, i.e. it is almost certainly is a hoax.

As has been stated to you by many and repeatedly : I do not believe in a Big Bang.
I have always stated clearly that all scientific findings point out that some 14.3 Billion years a super fast expansion of space/time took place during a very short time interval, something that popularly received the name `the Big Bang´. I have never claimed anything else.

I repeat : the `Big Bang´ did not create all we see today. Why do you suggest that ? Can you please answer that question ?

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Originally Posted by sassyT

Considering that you are on a religous (religious) forum 24 7, i would emagine (imagine) you probably dont have time to run a business, what do you have employees for?

I do no longer run a business. I sold my companies when I retired two years ago.

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Originally Posted by sassyT

Did you .... instead of harrasing (harassing) people on religious forums.

I do not harass anyone. But you do, with your lies, your twisting of words, your intolerance, your bigotry, and your pseudo-educated babble that is an insult even to those with a below average IQ...

:)

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N0 God
N0 big bang

What do YOU believe brought us into existence??
Or should I say what is YOUR scientific theory that brought the universe into existence?
WHY CAN'T YOU answer that?

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I repeat : the `Big Bang´ did not create all we see today. Why do you suggest that ? Can you please answer that question ?

Like I said... I agree with you! The big bang did nothing. It is non existent.. lol

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I do no longer run a business. I sold my companies when I retired two years ago.

So you have dedicated your retirement years to harassing people young enough to be your grand kids on religious forums?. nice

Hmmm if he sold his business two years ago who is he paying and for what??

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Originally Posted by sassyT

So you have dedicated your retirement years to harassing people young enough to be your grand kids on religious forums?

Besides the empty space between your ears, you now also show to have a plate before your eyes.
I have repeatedly replied to you that I do not harass people. You do that with your lies, your twisting of words, your intolerance, your bigotry, and your pseudo-educated babble that is an insult even to those with a below average IQ...

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

N0 God No big bang What do YOU believe brought us into existence?

Nobody knows what precisely caused the universe to appear. But that does not support the wild religious claim of the God deity... That claim is a primitive man's presentation of how the universe appeared. I prefer the explanation supported by 21' Century science...

:rolleyes:

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Like I said I am not saying it does support the claims
I am sure you must have some idea of how we got here
But you never want to say what your ideas are.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Like I said I am not saying it does support the claims
I am sure you must have some idea of how we got here
but you never want to say what your ideas are.

I stated that nobody knows what precisely caused the universe to appear.
Why do you need any other answer ? Why do you insist on a nonsensical explanation involving a so far invisible deity with supra-natural capacities and a strange interest in my and your sex life?

:p

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I have never asked you or anybody for explanations of an invinsible deity.
I never had any strange interest in your sex life either. As I recall you were the one always boosting about that.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I have never asked you or anybody for explanations of an invinsible deity.

Invinsible? Invisible : so far nobody has ever seen God. So if she exist she must be invisible !

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I never had any strange interest in your sex life either. As I recall you were the one always boosting about that.

I never boast about my sex life. All I told here is that I have 3 children and six grandchildren (so far). You call that boasting?

:D ;) :p :rolleyes: :D

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Invinsible? Invisible : so far nobody has ever seen God. So if she exist she must be invisible !

That is your conclusion (belief?) because you don't know God could be living on Venus for all anybody knows AND have a visible body.

LOL on answerway you went on about how great your sex life was, not detail but that it was great.

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

That is your conclusion (belief?) because you don't know God could be living on Venus for all anybody knows AND have a visible body.

Reason why I stated : "If she exist" .
One more : READ and PROCESS what I post and only than react with more than the babble you produce now...

:rolleyes:

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Read and comprehend what I am saying only THEN reply

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

Read and comprehend what I am saying only THEN reply

All you do is babbling...

:rolleyes:

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You must really enjoy my *babble* since you have 10 yrs of it on hard disc

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

hmmm if he sold his business two years ago who is he paying and for what????

Hmmm good question Nohelp. I wonder... his statements are always very incosistant.

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Nobody knows what precisely caused the universe to appear. But that does not support the wild religious claim of the God deity .... That claim is a primitive man's presentation of how the universe appeared. I prefer the explanation supported by 21' Century science ...·

So you BELIEVE in the CLAIMS made by Darwinists and Big Bang theorisers (which I must add are NOT SCIENCE) and we believe in the claims made by the Bible.
Niether have been irrefutably proven.

So what makes you better than us?

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Originally Posted by sassyT

So you BELIEVE in the CLAIMS made by Darwinists and Big Bang theorisers

No I don't. And I never did believe in these. I accept the objective supporting evidence provided as a frame guideline to what really happened so long ago (and what still is happening today).

You know that very well, but you seem to have run out of any other argument , I see.
So you refer to lying and misrepresentation, although you know that you are doing that.

It's called hypocrisy and bigotry...

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

No I don't. And I never ??did believe in these. I accept the objective supporting evidence provided as a frame guideline to what really happened so long ago (and what still is happening today).

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Mmm... This is a very contradicting statement. You claim you don't believe but in the same breath you say you accept the evidence. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sassyT

mmm...This is a very contradicting statement. You claim you dont believe but in the same breath you say you accept the evidence.

You suggested originally :

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Originally Posted by sassyT

So you BELIEVE in the CLAIMS made by Darwinists and Big Bang theorisers

To which I reacted :

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

No I don't. And I never did believe in these. I accept the objective supporting evidence provided as a frame guideline to what really happened so long ago (and what still is happening today).

So what I stated was actually : "No I don't BELIEVE in the CLAIMS made by Darwinists and Big Bang theorisers".

And please note that I also made a qualification (I know this seems very hard for you to do, but still try to read and digest what I stated) : I introduced the term "frame guideline".

"I accept the objective supporting evidence provided as a frame guideline to what really happened so long ago".

So I accept the (scientific) evidence as a frame guideline to what happened.
I did not state that I believe this way or that. I did not state that the (scientific) evidence is 100%. The frame guideline is accepted. The main lines are accepted. Evolution as a proper explanation for evolution, or the Big Bang as a proper explanation for the Origin of the Universe.

So there is nothing contradicting in that statement at all.

:D :D :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

You suggested originally : To which I reacted :

So what I stated was actually : "No I don't BELIEVE in the CLAIMS made by Darwinists and Big Bang theorisers".

And please note that I also made a qualification (I know this seems very hard for you to do, but still try to read and digest what I stated) : I introduced the term "frame guideline".

"I accept the objective supporting evidence provided as a frame guideline to what really happened so long ago".

So I accept the (scientific) evidence as a frame guideline to what happened.
I did not state that I believe this way or that. I did not state that the (scientific) evidence is 100%. The frame guideline is accepted. The main lines are accepted. Evolution as a proper explanation for evolution, or the Big Bang as a proper explanation for the Origin of the Universe.

So there is nothing contradicting in that statement at all.

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:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sassyT

...

Yes... Difficult to argue my previous last post (#115)
Has mental sanity finally arrived ?

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

Yes ... Difficult to argue my previous last post (#115)
Has mental sanity finally arrived ?

:rolleyes:

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You are just contradicting and reppeating yourself you are just starting to sound like an old broken record. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sassyT

You are just contradicting and reppeating yourself you are just starting to sound like an old broken record.

And your post are becoming dumber and dumber...
Note that I do not "reppeat" myself. I do not even repeat myself.

You ran out of sane comments already a long time ago.
Now you seem to have run out of any argumentation also, sassyT!!

:D :rolleyes: :p ;) :D

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Originally Posted by Credendovidis

And your post are becoming dumber and dumber ....
Note that I do not "reppeat" myself. I do not even repeat myself.

You ran out of sane comments already a long time ago.
Now you seem to have run out of any argumentation also, sassyT !!!

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What argument?. lol all I am waiting for is evidence for your BELIEFS. I am getting tired of waiting. You haven't given any O.S.E for your beliefs. :rolleyes: