Just trying to help the masses budQuote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
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Just trying to help the masses budQuote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
I started to trash this, but as I thought about it, I changed my mind somewhat. I think its clear that being part of a group can enhance one's happiness. And its also clear that practicing a religion can help one attain happiness.Quote:
Originally Posted by fredg
My objection here is twofold. First in the use of the word "most". I don't believe there is any proof of such a statement nor do I believe it accurate. I personally have known several very happy people who have no religious affiliation. I personally, consider myself a happy person. I have a job I enjoy and a family I love and that loves me. I could be happier (a winning lottery ticket would take care of that;) ). But I KNOW that practicing a religion would NOT make me any happier. Which leads to my second objection. The implication in that statement that people who don't practice a religion are somehow less happy or that they will increase their happiness by doing so. Nor do I believe that practicing a religion is a guarantee of happiness.
In my experience, the happiest people are those that are self-assured and confident. Such people tend to have a high self-esteem which breeds happiness. Such people tend to not need the bolsterings of religion to achieve their happiness.
Commendable, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommyp!972
Hi,
My comment on the "happiest" people was not meant to be taken personal. If some of you have taken it personal, as it looks like, then I do apologize for the misunderstanding.
My comment on spiritual people, in general, as being the happiest; as opposed to those without any spiritual beliefs; is based on personal experiences over the past 40 years. As far as "statistical" proof, I guess referred to by NeedKarma with his "disapproval" comment about my opinion, I don't know if any has been compiled anywhere.
Again, I apologize if you feel this was a "personal" comment. It wasn't. It was like many, many, many, many other opinions offered here in the Forum.
Have a cup of coffee, take two breaths, re-boot, and start over.
Dear animeluver06,Quote:
Originally Posted by animeluver06
I previously answered this post by saying that the bible has the answers you seek and then asked you to email my ministry directly to discuss this. I said that this would avoid all the negative feedback that others would post in response to this discussion. That post got immediate negative feedback, as predicted.
Since I have received no email from you, I will summerize what the bible teaches in this answer in the hopes that you, and others, will consider how this applies to your, and their, life.
Throughout the bible we learn that God wrote it through the agency of men He directed in order to communicate with us. Thus the bible is often referred to as the Word of God. In the first book of the bible, Genesis, we learn that God created everything, including man and woman, and that everything was very good. God communicated with that first man and woman using language, so we understand that God is also the creator of language. God placed the man (Adam) and the woman (Eve) in a garden and told them that they could eat of every plant in the garden except for the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
Because God created man, man belongs to God. Therefore, God determines truth. So when God tells us something we can believe Him regardless of what man has to say on the subject. What that means is that we can believe God first. We measure what man says by what God has already said.
Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God had warned them that if they did so they would surely die. That word "die" is a Hebrew idiom which means "dying die." In other words when they ate they would begin to die and continuing dying until they were dead. Prior to mans sin (disobedience to God) there was no death, disease, or suffering. Death, disease, and suffering are a result of mans rebellion against God.
God, however, still loved that man and woman (all all of their future offspring, which includes you and I and all of mankind), so He made provision for them (and us) to get back to a right relationship with God and eventually put an end to death, disease, and suffering as well. He promised the woman (Eve) that there would come a Savior who would be perfect and would die sacrificially for all of sinful mankind, thus paying the price of mans sin and creating the possibility for us to regain a right relationship with God again.
Romans 6:23 tells us the price of our sin: "The wages of sin is death...", and the verse continues by telling us what the Savior accomplished for us with His sacrificial death, "....but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." If you do not accept the free gift of God then you must pay the wages yourself. Those wages are death... eternal separation from the God who loves you, in a place called hell. This is not God's desire for you. The bible tells us that "God is not willing that any should perish..." He wants your love and He wants to lavish His love upon you, but He will not force you to make the right decision even as He did not force Adam and Eve to not eat of the forbidden tree.
However, He did make salvation available to you at a great cost to Himself.
Romans 5:8 says, "God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
I'm sure you've heard of John 3:16? "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." Will you believe in Him? I assure you that I do and I know in my heart the truth of what He has said.
Again I beseech you, write to me through the web site, www.OilandWineMinistries.org, and I will be happy to discuss and answer any questions you may have. This invitation includes anyone else who in interested in eternity as well.
May God richly bless you,
Phil Debenham
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
You are a wonderful brother, and I am proud to call you such!
Exegesis need not be dependent upon others (although much is to be gained through some of their wisdom and study), but is dependent upon your own study. Purgatory, for example, is not exegetically seen in any of the verses you have pointed out... and that was my point. You have brought man's fallible ideas into the scripture rather than letting scripture determine the validity or lack thereof of man's fallible ideas. This is a common error in the church today, and a very serious one. We should always let God's word speak to us rather than us telling God what he means. Wouldn't you agree?
In Christ,
Phil
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by fredg
I can't speak for Need, but I didn't take it personally. How I did take it was as a narrow-minded, unsubstantiated comment. As I said, it implied that people who practice a religion are happier then people who don't.
If you had said something like the following:
Practicing any religion gives someone a sense a belonging. Humans are a social animal and that sense of belonging helps achieve happiness in some people.
I would have not objected. I actually think that statement to be a truism.
This is something I have noticed about you many times in the past. You have this tendency to make exaggerated statements (most, always, etc.) that are unsupported by facts or proof. If you stop to think more about what you post and try to keep to facts that can be substantiated, you might not get such reactions as you did here.
This is not an attack against you, it is simply a constructive criticism based on a pattern discernable in your posting history.
P.S. Normally I would have PMed this but you claim you delete my PMs unread.
I for one had never heard of it. I'm very glad he gave the definition.Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
Your post didn't offer your opinion, you posted a statement that is meant to taken as fact. I didn't take it personally either, I was sticking up for the billions of people who are happy without living your particular lifestyle. I have travelled extensively and have met people from all religions, met tons who practice no religion - Scott expressed it well in a previous post: "the happiest people are those that are self-assured and confident. Such people tend to have a high self-esteem which breeds happiness." I believe we all know extremely unhappy devout people. Painting with the wide brush is a very dangerous thing to do, people are individuals not groups. You seem to have a chauvinistic view.Quote:
Originally Posted by fredg
I found this fun quiz online called Belief-O-Matic. You answer 20 questions and depending on your answers, your results tell you which religious beliefs you are most in agreement with. My top 5 were Unitarian, Secular Humanist, Reform Judaism, Nontheist and Liberal Quaker. I'm not sure what a Liberal Quaker is, haha, I'm going to have to do some research. :) Anyway here's the link if anyone else wants to take the quiz:
http://beliefnet.com/story/76/story_7665_1.html
Coo site! That could be the subject of a new thread or add it to Rickj's thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by orange
Scott, the reference is Gen 19:1-8. This is right before God destroys Sodom and Gomorrah. The way it is said in the text is "bring them out unto us, that we may know them. ". Most if not all of the versions agree that this is a more of an intimate thing than today's version of being friends. New International version even says sex. After rereading the text I think the main reason he gave his daughters is because he had just invited two men in to rest from their journey and the other 2 men came to the door. Lot not wanting to be a bad host and allowing men to basically rape the guests he offered his daughters. The other explanation I gave was another reason in connection. It has been a while for me too since I have read this text.Quote:
Thanks for the correction. It was a while ago when I researched this for some reason that it was Job stuck in my mind.
As for your expanded version of it, I don't recall any reference to homosexuality in the passages I read. I'll have to see if I can find it and review it.
I won't spend anymore time on this because it is that important but here is a link to some bible version if you would like to look it up yourself.
http://www.bible.com/bibleresources/...+19&version1=9.
jduke44
I already checked it, and the beautiful moral of the story is that the 2 men inside were actually angels, and God destroyed the men outside before anything occurred to his daughters( Lot's)
I have been trying to keep up with this debate but I have been too busy at work to read all the posts and post myself. One thing that I keep seeing over and over again is that (almost) everyone posting here is completely stuck in their beliefs. Its as if one day, you decided that you had it all figured out and you don't need to learn anymore.
Now, like I said, I haven't been able to read through every post. But it seems like no one is taking the time to look at others perspectives with an open mind... just a lot of hostility.
I have seen (almost) everyone make very valid and interesting points. But they all seem to be taken with negativity. There seems to be a lot of ego playing major roles in here.
Another consistency I have seen is the argument to peoples "beliefs" as "prove it." Prove it? Are you serious? Its called "belief" and "faith" for the simple reason that its can't be proven in this life as we know it. If someone feels that God is speaking to them, I doubt their going to say, "Wait a tick, God... lemme grab my tape recorder so I can prove this to my friends." That's just ridiculous.
If I believe something and I can't prove it, you can call me a liar. But I I AM lying, then I would have no place in a debate like this. If something is unprovable, don't write if off just because it can't be proven.
(sorry... I have been wanting to jump in here somewhere and I suppose this is where lol)
You've made some really great points, Dr Jizzle. Funny, you're jumping in just as I feel I've exhausted everything I can read and say here. Personally I don't know why I get involved in these threads, because usually I end up feeling bad one way or another. Thanks for adding your insight, though!
True... and to your comments you left, I know that it has stayed more or less professional. That is very commendable. Most the people involved have been members long enough to keep it civil.
What saddens (for lack of a better word) me is that we have such diverse opinions and backgrounds and we could really be learning a lot from each other rather than tearing others ideas/beliefs down.
Its true that some people are not as educated as others... some people cannot communicate their point or idea as well as others... and some people don't understand things as well as others. But instead of the hostility toward this, we should be helping each other see the other sides of things.
"The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend."
There may be a lot more here than any of us have seen.
I agree with you completely! I am always interested in learning about the beliefs (and cultures, for that matter) of others. What upsets me is when some people insist that their way is the only way and that everyone else must follow that way. People like that would have a really hard time living in my multicultural neighborhood here in Canada. I live directly across the street from a very active Mosque, which is 2 blocks from our Jewish Community Centre. Within a 6 block radius there is a Ukrainian Catholic Church, a Baptist Church, and a Sikh Temple. These people are my friends and neighbors. They are the people I see on the street when I walk my dog, and the people I talk to at the library and the grocery store. Our children will all attend school together. If I openly judged them based on their beliefs, I would have no friends. And to think that I'm better than any of them or deserve better because of my beliefs makes me sick to my stomach.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
That's a very valid point! However, people will only be willing to see the other side of things if they feel their ideas and opinions are being respected as well. Unfortunately that respect is often lacking.Quote:
Its true that some people are not as educated as others... some people cannot communicate their point or idea as well as others... and some people don't understand things as well as others. But instead of the hostility toward this, we should be helping each other see the other sides of things.
Thanks again for your comments!
I respect your viewpoint. God bless those nuns! And you also, Orange. You are going to make a fine mother indeed!
Oh and I guess I can't edit a comment, but I meant to add that I respect your beliefs as well! One of my best friends since childhood, Praise (that's her real name!) is the daughter of a pentecostal minister. The whole family has always been very kind to me. I used to have sleep overs at her place, and went to Bible Camp with her, too. It was a welcome relief from some of the bad foster homes I was in. In fact, Praise's father was the one who rescued me from the last bad foster home I was in and got me into the Catholic Boarding school!Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
I have read the Quran, Book of Mormon and of course the Bible, and I forget some years ago the book that the "Moonies" put out.
I study the bible in 5 separate versions. I have preached in Methodist, Baptist, independent, Orthodox and Catholic Churches. A person often finds his path within or to a faith is always a journey, it never ends we always find a deeper faith and perhaps a closer truth.
That's cool, Fr Chuck! I didn't even know the Moonies had a book. I suppose Rev. Moon wrote it? I will have to look it up. I've read parts of all of the other books you mentioned, but never had the patience to read a whole book! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
You've prob read here already.. NO RELIGION IS PERFECT.. NONE!!
Y do you feel that you need to have religion in the 1st place... what ever happened to all the people that lived so many millions of years ago that didn't know about religion?did they all go to hell for not having a religion... not to tick any religion off but why can't it just be OK to live a good life be good to each and treat people with respect and not have a religion...
I'm personally am embarrassed to belong to my religion
I'm a catholic and see what the church does to cover up its sins while they are condemning others for the same CRIMES.. so don't feel bad about not having a religion I wish I could give mine up..
To me the church is setup like the mob
You got the don
The lieutenants
The sgts... etc
Just as crooked and a lot richer
I just looked at several different versions. Most seem to use the wording "that we may know them" in describing what the crowd said to Lot. The word "know" is being interpreted as sexually. Not being a biblical scholar, I'm not going to argue with that interpretation. But I'm still not too comfortable with the idea of condoning the offering of virgin daughters for gang rape for any reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by jduke44
I'm not sure I completely agree with that. Clearly some people refuse to budge from their beliefs. But I think some people have expressed at least an interest in hearing other viewpoints and accepting what those viewpoints mean to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
The point you are missing here is that some of the posts here don't acknowledge that these are beliefs taken on faith. If someone says to me, "this is what I believe", then my reaction is that they are welcome to their beliefs. But if someone says to me this is the one truth and factual, then I will ask them to prove it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJizzle
I totally respect other people's beliefs. I am glad for the people that have found solace, happiness, fulfillment or whatever in the practice of their religion. But I expect them to respect my beliefs in turn.
Well Tommy, I certainly understand your frustration with "religion", and especially Catholicism in light of the continuing sexual preditor scandals within that religion. But, what exactly do you mean when you use the term "religion"? Do you mean "organized religions or denominations", or "belief in God", or "belief in the bible"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommyp!972
It is clear from your post that you at least do not believe the bible as written, otherwise you wouldn't believe that people lived for millions of years without religion (for that matter you wouldn't believe that people lived millions of years ago at all!)
Let's assume that the bible isn't true and that we all got here by natural evolutionary processes and mutations. If that is true then man came from molecules by chance random processes. Therefore, man determines truth. There is nothing above him to determine truth. If that is true, what is good? What is bad? What is right? What is wrong? What is a good life? Is the priest wrong to have sex with young boys? Well, if man determines truth, then, no, it is not wrong. Man determines truth.
Now, if the bible is true then God created man out of the dust of the earth. Therefore we belong to and are responsible to our Creator. God determines truth. Right and wrong have meaning. A good life has meaning. The sexual preditor is in sin and stands condemned by God.
You see, Tommy, if the God of the Bible is not true you have nothing to complain about. Everything, EVERYTHING, is the result of chance random processes and there is no such thing as right and wrong, good or bad. You determine truth, and what's true for you isn't true for someone else, there are no answers.
The bible is true, Tommy, and therefore we have absolutes and can determine right and wrong, good and bad. You would benefit greatly by not listening to "religion" or "science" first, but, instead first reading what the Creator has said. Then you will be able to determine what is right or wrong with what you hear from "religion" and "science."
Phil Debenham
Moon's book is called Divine Principles. It teaches that Jesus came to obtain salvation for mankind, but failed, and that Moon himself is the new messiah sent to fix Jesus' screw ups. If the bible is true, and I believe it is, Moon is a heretic of the first order.Quote:
Originally Posted by orange
Phil Debenham
This is exactly what I was talking about in my response to Dr Jizzle. Phil is stating what he believes not as his belief but as a universal truth. That says that his belief is the one and only answer. This shows a lack of respect for other people's beliefs. It shows a narrow mindedness and an intolerance that I feel is very wrong. It creates a level of hostility because it says that I'm right and you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
I feel compelled to fight such intolerance and narrowmidnedness wherever I see it.
I wonder what you mean by "respect"? If you mean "respect one's right to believe", then I quite agree with you. If you mean "respect what one believes", then I could not disagree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
If you believe something that is detrimental to you, I cannot respect that belief. Rather, I would endeavor to expose the folly and danger of that belief in the hopes of guiding you away from the danger towards which you are heading. Can you "respect" that?
Phil Debenham
Scott,Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
So what you are saying is that you are tolerant of every other viewpoint but my viewpoint which says that your viewpoint is wrong. Isn't that being just as intolerant and narrowminded? Aren't you saying that you are right and I am wrong? There is no difference between what you are doing and what you are fighting.
Phil Debenham
I mean one's right to believe. Though, there is some element of respecting what they believe as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
No, I cannot respect that. What gives you the right to determine what might be detrimental to me? What gives you the right to determine what is dangerous or folly? That just smacks of the same narrow-mindedness and intolerance I spoke of. It also bespeaks an arrogance that is abhorrent to me. Yeah, if you see me step out into traffic and stop me, that's one thing, but that's not a belief issue. For you to preach and proselytize to me because of your belief in an after-life and eternal damnation or such is NOT respecting my right to my beliefs.
No, that's not what I'm saying. You are entitled to believe I am wrong. You are entitled to say you believe I am wrong if I present my beliefs directly to you or in a public forum such as this. There have been several posts in this thread that said, essentially; this is what I believe and why. I have not objected to those whether they believed the same as myself or not. There have been others who have said; this is what is true and what you should believe. Those are the ones I object to.Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
What you are not entitled to do is say that your belief is the one and only truth without being able to provide concrete proof of that. What you are not entitled to do is preach to me when I have not asked for it. What you are not entitled to do is determine what is detrimental to me based on your own beliefs.
If you cannot respect that, then you cannot respect my beliefs and you are guilty of practicing what you claim to fight. I believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and that if one rejects the word God has, in my belief, spoken directly to your (and all of mankinds) benefit and to the avoidance of mans problems. That is my belief Scott. That belief requires that I share it with you and everyone else as truth. I believe it is truth. Not my truth, but the truth given us from the Almighty Creator to Whom we are all responsible. I respect your right to reject God, Scott. You are not angry that I don't respect your beliefs, you are angry that I say your beliefs are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Not only am I entitled, by my beliefs (which you claim to respect), to say that God's revealed truth (not mine) is the one and only truth, and preach that truth (whether or not you've requested it), and to tell people what God (not me) has determined what is detrimental to them, but I am commanded by that same God to do so! What you have not entitled me to do, God has commanded that I do. I choose to listen to Him over you. That is my belief, and your failure to "respect" that belief contridicts all you have written on the subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottGem
Phil Debenham
Actually if you're referring to "cavemen" like the Neanderthals, scientists believe that they did have a form of religion or belief in an afterlife, basically because of the careful way they buried they dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommyp!972
I agree with you though that no religion is perfect, and I understand your frustrations about crimes that churches have committed and gotten away with. I have a hard time with that myself!
Since you guys are on the topic of respect, I'm just going to add a few words. I believe in respecting the beliefs of another person, but only insofar as those beliefs do not harm others. For example, I don't respect the beliefs of racists, cults and cult leaders, those who believe its G-ds will that innocent people should die, or those whose beliefs justify the abuse of women. In those cases, I don't even think I respect the person's right to believe those things. I think they should change their beliefs, as they are detrimental to society.
Orange,Quote:
Originally Posted by orange
I believe that you have made a reasonable statement even though I do not entirely agree with it. Where I don't agree with it is the statement "I believe in respecting the beliefs of another person". I certainly do agree with your limitations to that respect. What you are saying is that some peoples beliefs are wrong (you have innumerated why they are wrong), and therefore you cannot respect those beliefs (because they do damage to society). I find that I cannot respect a persons belief that runs contrary to the teaching of the bible. That is because I believe that there is a God who has communicated to man through His Word as well as through His Son, Jesus Christ. I don't disrespect a person for believing contrary to that, but I don't respect the contrary belief simply because I believe that it is quite an incorrect belief.
Politically I might be called a "Reagan Conservative". Now, on a political level, I do not disrespect a "Liberal", but I certainly do disrespect some of the liberals viewpoints because I am quite convinced that they are wrong. It is the same with belief and is true with all people regardless of what side of the fence they stand on.
Phil Debenham
Haha. Sorry, I mean no disrespect here, but it always strikes me as funny how differently the term "Liberal" is used in the US as opposed to Canada (where I live). Here a Liberal is a member of the Liberal Party, and they are definitely not left-wing. I would say more centrist. Left-wing here is more like the New Democratic Party or The Green Party. And on the other hand, I think the Conservative Party of Canada is less right-wing than the Conservatives / Republicans in the United States. Anyway it's interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
What an incredably bigotted statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by phildebenham
So basically what you are saying is you have no respect for other religions other than Christian !
What an amazing narrow minded and puritanical outlook on life.
ScottGem:
I am not trying to be offensive towards you because I really do accept your right to believe in something/someone or not.
But when you come on a public forum (religion or not), It's nice to bring something beneficial to the table.
I'm just saying that hearing you say you essentially believe in nothing... well who wants nothing?
In fact, it's like bring roadkill to the table... and sorry, but it tends to have a contaminating effect.
But yes, I do accept you. Peaceful proposition..
Tommyp!972
The reason you are unhappy with your Catholic faith is because you do not understand it.
You demonstrate that when you talk about the Church covering up its sins.
As an example, if that is in regard to the sex scandal, THE CHURCH did not do any covering up, but some bishops and priest did try to do so.
In reality such sins have been fought against by the Church from the very beginning.
The Catholic Church is not a mob (that is an unruly group of hostile or angry people). The Catholic Church is a huge family of over 2 billion people and like in most families there are some disagreements.
I sense from your hostility that you are upset or dislike authority. If that's the case then you live in a world where authority is the rule not the exception.
God is the greatest authority. Other authorities are your City, County, State, and National governments.
Any organization you may belong to has rules and regulations that are authorities.
One of the most frustrating and miserable ways to life you life is to resist authority.
I think you would be a much happier person and far better informed if you have a personal meeting with you local priest (or any Catholic priest) and tell him what you have posted here and ask him for clarification and an exhalation of you gripes.
Or you can do it on line with a priest or Bishop like Bishop Chuck here.
The secret is to not be hostile, but rather to sincerely want answers that are of value and true. Hostility turns people off and gets you nowhere but into troubles of various kinds.
I wish you much peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura):) :) :)
See Phil, its actually the reverse. What it boils down to is that your beliefs are such that you cannot respect anyone else's beliefs. Your beliefs require you to show arrogance, disrespect, intolerance and closedmindeness to others. If those are your beliefs, then, you are right I can't and won't respect them. But the reason is because you won't offer me the same respect I am willing to offer you.
Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you. Don't you believe in that? If you won't respect my right to believe what I want by attempting to force your beliefs on me, then why should I respect your rights?
You say "I respect your right to reject God". But you don't.
Basically, you are caught in a Catch 22. To adhere to what you believe requires you to disrespect other's rights. By disrespecting other's rights you forfeit the right to reciprocal respect.
Umm where did you get the idea I believe in nothing? I have stated that I believe in the Judeo-Christian ethic. I believe in behaving in a moral and ethical manner. I believe in respecting other peoples rights to believe what they want. But I draw the line when those beliefs interfere with my rights to believe what I want. No I definitely do not believe in nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 31pumpkin
ScottGen,
You said, "By disrespecting other's rights you forfeit the right to reciprocal respect."
Unfortunately with some people that is true.
But from my point of view everyone should be respected, and their belief also.
But that does not mean that I cannot ponder such a view and then either accept or reject it as I so decide.
It is the withholding of respect that causes much grief in humanity.
Just because you might not respect me or my belief I should not deal with you in the same manner. All that does is make matters worse.
Respectfully, that is my view on that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)
Fred,
First, I have always felt that respect has to be earned. However, I also believe that respect should be given until a person shows themselves undeserving of respect. The fact is that I have shown respect for other people's beliefs. The fact is also, that I have not be given respect in turn.
The problem here seems to be, as I said earlier, a Catch 22. If you insist that your faith is the only truth and that you have to try to save me from my beliefs to the contrary, then you are not and cannot respect my rights to believe differently. I agree that's it's a conundrum. The solution, in my view, is to restrict yourself to a statement of what you believe and why. Then leave it up the other person to decide to accept or reject those beliefs. And to then simply agree to disagree.
But the proselytizing that I have seen, the insistence that other people's beliefs are wrong is not respecting other's rights.
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