Wow, a foresensic anthropologist. Always strikes me as funny that people will believe and give a lot of merit to persons that are of the opinion God does not exist based on personal experiences, although if a beleiver gives an account of why they do believe in God it's considered preaching?

The question of the existence of God dates back many thousands of years ago, Socrates spoke of it, Plato spoke of it, Dante spoke of it, although we are analyzibg the views of a video and some NY City anthropologist. The above mentioned persons were, and still are, regarded as the most intelligent thinkers of all time, they practically shaped the world through their theories and ideas. ALL, believed in God, all gave reasons they believed in God, reasons I doubt many here would be able to argue against (some of the greatest thinkers of all time could'nt).

What also strikes me as ironic is that Einstein, regarded as the most brilliant scientist to ever exist, also believed in God, although he too made no argument nor did he attempt to prove his belief through science, he just believed. So instead of arguing or debating with me and others on this site, perhaps you would be better off researching their views rather than other, less credible literature. Maybe that would give some more perspective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

so many saying show me proof that god is real, but they have no proof of how they breathe every day or love. how can you really love without god? he is love. '' BELOVED LET US LOVE ONE ANOTHER FOR LOVE IS OF GOD AND EVERY ONE THAT LOVETH IS BORN OF GOD AND KNOWETH GOD, HE THAT LOVETH NOT KNOWETH NOT GOD FOR GOD IS LOVE'' 1st JOHN 4: 7-8

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof is in science, you can read about it or watch NOVA. They slam lifeless molecules together and create compounds etc... NOVA | Transcripts | Origins: How Life Began | PBS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

Years ago I watched a documentary on A&E about death. I remember the leading NY forensic anthropologist started his career as a firm die hard "believer", after a few years on the job he became an atheist stating that "NON QUOTE: A God would never allow the things to happen to little children and people that he has seen happen." People say it is part of gods plan? The little girl would be brutally raped and murdered & die the most horrific death imaginable. If that is gods plan then he is very sadistic, and I wouldn't consider him to be my friend. And if I were a believer and that was my little girl everyone around me including myself would blame the man and wish death upon him. Then people say "It was the devil somehow working through the man who committed the crime" and I say, your God could have prevented it.
I think its silly to believe that a God would humour an evil force such as the devil and allow that man who committed the violent sick crime to become what he became as a result to his horrific unbearable childhood. I'm running long on this outside the bible view, but to sum it up. Why would a all powerful God need puppets? Do gods get bored? Where would a little girls suffering show up in this divine plan? Why would a god need a plan? Plans are for
vacations, or go to a party. Plans are for humans not Gods.

---

Hey GQ - :)

No you couldn't be more right - Having anyone harmed is never in God's plan especially children.

Gregg, God gave each of us a free will in hopes that we do turn to him, in hopes we do the right thing.

I know I keep relaying it to Being a parent, but it's the best correlation I can come up with.

It's like your beatuful child, as much as your heart will want to follow him around 24/7, there will be a time, that his little wings will spread and off to school he will go and you will have to leave go for some hours of the day. During that time he may run into negative peer pressure, now you hope with all your heart that your wonderful teachings that you have done at home, will kick in and he will make the right choice. But you won't be able to be there to scoop him up out of harms way.

It's sort of the same thing. God is watching over each of us and hoping beyond hope that we love each other and stay in his light. But he will not force you to love him.

And no those children that get hurt is a direct result of some human being very very sick.

I wish I could express it better, but I am trying.

If God would intervene on my whole day... Guess what... Dear Allheart here would have
Her feet up counting her millions ;) . But guess what, life where everything was done for us and we just sat around, and didn't have to think as hard, or work as hard, or learn or teach...

We would never meet our potetial. We would never know the gifts that we truly do possess.

Once again, if you have a son, you don't want him to win the game and all he did was sit on the bench, you want him to go out there do his very best, and get that game winning run :).

I'm making myself dizzy :)

I do love you all - I truly do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BMI

Wow, a foresensic anthropologist. Always strikes me as funny that people will beleive and give alot of merit to persons that are of the opinion God does not exist based on personal experiences, although if a beleiver gives an account of why they do beleive in God it's considered preaching?

The question of the existence of God dates back many thousands of years ago, Socrates spoke of it, Plato spoke of it, Dante spoke of it, although we are analyzibg the views of a video and some NY City anthropologist. The above mentioned persons were, and still are, regarded as the most intelligent thinkers of all time, they practically shaped the world through their theories and ideas. ALL, beleived in God, all gave reasons why they beleived in God, reasons I doubt many here would be able to argue against (some of the greatest thinkers of all time could'nt).

What also strikes me as ironic is that Einstein, regarded as the most brilliant scientist to ever exist, also beleived in God, although he too made no argument nor did he attempt to proove his beleif through science, he just beleived. So instead of arguing or debating with me and others on this site, perhaps you would be better off researching their views rather than other, less credible literature. Maybe that would give some more perspective.

---

___________________________________-
___________________________________

It was in relation to the discussion just prior. It is in reference to a person who sees the worst of evil close up, and how it effected his beliefs. And do you really think for a second Albert Einstein would come out and say, " Oh yeah... There is probably no GOD!! He would have had better luck saying he was gay. LOL, don't be so quick to be a prick in this room. You can communicate with out being a smart as#.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proof is in science, you can read about it or watch NOVA. They slam lifeless molecules together and create compounds etc... NOVA | Transcripts | Origins: How Life Began | PBS

---

Who slams those compounds together i ask. See i can't for the life of me understand how that first person got here to mix anything together. Or how the tree's know how to grow and nature knows how to water it and when we grow a child in our body, how does our body know just how much milk to make for that baby i could go on and on. You seem like a very kind person but i have seen things that you can't imagine and i guess your saying that you want proof and we can't give that to you. See the bible says we must work out our own salvation with conviction. I am going to pray everyday that god himself will show you proof. Love to ya

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

WHO SLAMS THOSE COMPOUNDS 2GETHER I ASK. SEE I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND HOW THAT FIRST PERSON GOT HERE TO MIX ANYTHING TOGETHER. OR HOW THE TREE'S KNOW HOW TO GROW AND NATURE KNOWS HOW TO WATER IT AND WHEN WE GROW A CHILD IN OUR BODY, HOW DOES OUR BODY KNOW JUST HOW MUCH MILK TO MAKE FOR THAT BABY I COULD GO ON AND ON. YOU SEEM LIKE A VERY KIND PERSON BUT I HAVE SEEN THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T IMAGINE AND I GUESS YOUR SAYING THAT YOU WANT PROOF AND WE CAN'T GIVE THAT TO YOU. SEE THE BIBLE SAYS WE MUST WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION WITH CONVICTION. I AM GOING TO PRAY EVERYDAY THAT GOD HIMSELF WILL SHOW YOU PROOF. LOVE TO YA

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The CapsLock key is just above the left Shift key. You can thank me later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

I KNOW THE DAY WILL COME WHEN EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD and no amount of other gods or beliefs can make that fact go away. if you have children why would you want to chance teaching them this. if the time comes and Gods not there(ha!ha!)then you will have lost nothing. but if he is may he have mercy on them i pray. love to all

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I know one thing I will instill in my kids - to respect other people's beliefs and not go around screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, that's just rude.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The CapsLock key is just above the left Shift key. You can thank me later.

---

THE ESC KEY IS TOP LEFT, NO NEED FOR THANKS

Smart A$$??

Take it the way you want to take it. I could say the same for many in this room.

I really love your comment about Einstein, honestly its quite profound. What else could he say? Are you suggesting he said that out of fear of looking foolish?? Please prove that to me... lol!

You sit there and ask for proof but you rebuke points based on that!!

I think this thread is just about finished, it has long since ceased to be an informative, intellectual debate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

I know one thing I will instill in my kids - to respect other people's beliefs and not go around screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, that's just rude.

---

How is it rude to be concerned for people? Look at other comments saying that there is no god. Your talking about my friend. If you believe something and entertain the fact that it is not real then you really don't know for sure if you believe and i know. My opinion is as valuable as any one else's, i'm just not one to say well duh maybe you're right or maybe i'm right. I don't know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

I know one thing I will instill in my kids - to respect other people's beliefs and not go around screaming that they are right and everyone else is wrong. I mean, that's just rude.

---

Right on Jillian!!

I am involved in another thread with Jenny where she is claiming to be doing things out of love when, in fact, she is promoting her own agenda without regard for someone else's beliefs. In the post you responded to, she yells that Jesus is the Lord and nothing will make that fact go away. But anyone who holds that that is a fact is clearly closed minded and has no respect for anyone who doesn't see things her way. That Jesus is the Lord is a matter of FAITH, not fact.

If she wants to hold onto that faith and if it comforts her, then more power to her. But when she tries to tell others not to take a chance that her beliefs are the only rights ones, she goes way over the top.

BMI, I'm not sure why you place so much emphasis on historical figures or other highly intelligent people believing in god. Are you saying we should just bow to the "smarties" and stop thinking for ourselves? Have you considered that for many of these figures, rejecting the existence of god would have been social suicide? You say Einstein didn't look for "proof" of god, he just believed; well, whoopidty doo for him! :) I like a little more evidence for my beliefs, and it doesn't make me wrong.

I think perspective can be found in reading about other people's beliefs, but that doesn't mean everyone is going to agree. One of the reasons I participate on this site and in these threads is because I'm trying to get a better understanding of the religious perspective. I'm of the opinion that people are either born with faith or they aren't; being someone who wasn't, it's interesting to me to discuss things with people who were. There are some people on this site who are very tolerant of others, who express their view, but don't argue and fight with someone with an opposing view. Then there are those who insist they are right and argue with people of opposing views and do nothing but push others away.

You Have No Idea What You Are Talking About. You Seem To Be Making This About You And What You Believe Other People Should And Shouldn't Say, And That Is Simply Not Right. You Should Voice Your Opinion And Let Me Voice Mine And At Some Point Grow Up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BMI

Smart A$$??????

Take it the way you wanna take it. I could say the same for many in this room.

I really love your comment about Einstein, honestly its quite profound. What else could he say? Are you suggesting he said that out of fear of looking foolish????? Please proove that to me......lol!

You sit there and ask for proof but you rebuke points based on that!!!!!!!!

I think this thread is just about finished, it has long since ceased to be an informative, intellectual debate.

---

Yes, I probably won't be checking in too much either.

Please, I am not Ms. Sweeter then Sugar - or Ms. Patty Perfect. I promise you, I know
I am far from it, and sharing what's in my heart with all of you really does help, and I thank you for letting me share.

But I can get my curls in a knot as well :) - I don't like it but I do.

Anyway, when I said I love you all I meant it and it saddens me to no end sometimes when we can't hear each other.

I will point out - that those of you who do believe in God, embrace that and embrace others whether they believe in God or not. And it's not okay to be unkind or to have a sharp tongue. Ever - even under the guise of attempting to share God's love, because having a sharp tongue and letting your human side out, is not spreading God's love.

As I said, I can get my tail in the air too, and don't even resemble being perfect, so call me on it when you see it.

For those of you who do believe in God, remember a sin... is a sin... is a sin... and all hurt Our Father, and I think judging our brother's and sisters or putting ourselves above anyone, may hurt Him the very most.

Okay over and out :)
When I said I love you all earlier I really did mean it.

Comment Not To Jillian But To Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

HOW IS IT RUDE TO BE CONCERNED FOR PEOPLE? LOOK AT OTHER COMMENTS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. YOUR TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND. IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING AND ENTERTAIN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT REAL THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU BELIEVE AND I KNOW. MY OPINION IS AS VALUEABLE AS ANY ONE ELSES, I'M JUST NOT ONE TO SAY WELL DUH MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT OR MAYBE I'M RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

---

First it is rude to type in ALL Caps, that's yelling at people. Second, it is rude to be "concerned for people" when they have not asked for or shown no interest in your concern. Third, its perfectly possible to respect someone's right to believe what they want without doubting your own beliefs. Its easy to say; "well I beleive this way... " rather then; "you're wrong, my belief is the only one". The latter is rude.

What's worse here is your holier than thou attitude has the opposite effect of what you want. It turns people off and shuts off your message.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jennyrena

You Have No Idea What You Are Talking About. You Seem To Be Making This About You And What You Believe Other People Should And Shouldn't Say, And That Is Simply Not Right. You Should Voice Your Opinion And Let Me Voice Mine And At Some Point Grow Up

---

Is this the comment you said was to me? If so, you clearly are not reading what I've been saying. But that's not surprising, you refuse to accept any viewpoint other than your own. Instead of just expressing your view you have to attack other people's views. Its not in WHAT you say, but how you say it.

And I'm very grown up, by the way, you should try it sometime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jennyrena

HOW IS IT RUDE TO BE CONCERNED FOR PEOPLE? LOOK AT OTHER COMMENTS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. YOUR TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND. IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING AND ENTERTAIN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT REAL THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU BELIEVE AND I KNOW. MY OPINION IS AS VALUEABLE AS ANY ONE ELSES, I'M JUST NOT ONE TO SAY WELL DUH MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT OR MAYBE I'M RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

---

jenny, there is a difference between being concerned for others and screaming at others, insisting you are right and they are wrong. I don't see any atheists doing this:

THE TIME WILL COME WHEN ALL RELIGIOUS WHACKOS REALIZE THEY ARE WRONG AND THEY HAVE WASTED THEIR LIFE PRAYING TO AN INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY!! THEY WILL HAVE WASTED THE ONE LIFE THEY HAD ON THIS EARTH FILLED WITH HATE FOR OTHERS AND FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE, BECAUSE IN THE END, THEY WILL ROT IN THE GROUND LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!! NO PEARLY GATES, NO Fiery PITS OF HELL FOR THE BAD GUYS!! JUST ROTTING IN THE GROUND!! WAKE UP, PEOPLE!! YOU'RE WRONG AND YOU'RE WASTING YOUR TIME!!

Was that rude? I'm just concerned for other people; I don't want to see you spend your life worshipping something that isn't there when you can accomplish much more and be a better person by accepting there is no god! I'm just trying to help!

And yes, your opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's, and is welcomed. But there are ways to express your opinion without being quite as rude as you have been. You also need to learn that you can respect someone else's opinion without agreeing with it. For example: you believe in god. I don't. But I respect your opinion. See? That's wasn't so hard.

PS: Turn the CAPS key off - people will instantly become more receptive to what you have to say.

I can't believe, having missed the start of this post, I read this whole thing. I have never cared who believed what, or the reasons behind it. I stay away from organised religion, but have come to believe that a personal relationship with the God that I understand, needed no church with a lot of people in it so that's the way I live. I can offer no proof that God exists, at least none you could understand, and no proof based in fact, that he works in my life. But being a dumb human, I can understand, why we fall for the TRUTH, as put by others, and follow blindly to the point of being sheep for the shepherds who they follow with no questions asked. I can see where the suffering of others can be evidence, of there being no God. I can see through suffering, why you can be angry at God. That's humans for you. Blame God for not doing what we should be doing. That's easy, and leaves us humans blameless for our shortcomings. The God I understand gives us life and choices, the rest is up to us, what we do with free will, and it doesn't matter whether you believe in God or not, not one bit. What does matter is how you spend this short time on earth, and how you live your life. The rest is as personal as what kind of deodorant you use, as that is choice also. The truth is we don't know, none of us, and we believe what we believe. Not a big deal until you start telling me what I should believe, and dare to try and change me. That's why I just recognise the good in people, and if I can't, I just leave them alone to whatever choice they make. I have no proof that I'm right, but I have no proof your wrong either, so I hope you enjoy your choice as I do mine. But I must admit this relatively quiet, and thoughtful post, is a refreshing change from some of the other "organised ones", and is a great read.

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

Awwwww poor Allheart... :)

Hi Jillean,

I do place empahsis on certain historical figures in whom I happen to agree with, I think what they have said is very relevant to the original question. Also, if one posts video's and website information to support their belief than so too shall I. Greg says so and so said this, I say so and so said this. I do not like the argument that many did it because of "social suicide", I could say they made the video up for money, I could say something about all of the points refuting the existence of God. It's great you have your beleifs and I do agree with your take on independent thinking, however, my historical references were in relation to perspective and to be viewed as a counter argument against many points within this thread.

I will sincerily apologize to anyone here that I may have offended or sounded smart with, was and is not my intention, sorry Greg. These religious posts always end up the same, although perhaps I contribute to that outcome:)

Caps On Is Not Me Yelling It's Me Not Turning Them Off...
If You Have A Heart You Are Concerned For People Without Them Asking You...
People Can Believe The Way They Want, They Are Going To Anyway...
One Of My Most Favorite People In The World Is An Atheist And I Hug Him Every Time I See Him And I Listen To His Veiws And He To Mine...
When He Is Gone I Would Have His Blood On My Hands If I Didn't At Least Try To Tell Him...
I Love Every Soul And Like God I Don't Want To See Them Perish...
I Have A Soft Spot For Kids And Worry A Great Deal For Them...
I Don't Like Being Attacked For My Opinion, I Haven't Attacked Anyone For There's , Only To You For The Personal Punch...
My Children Don't Even Behave In Some Of These Manners And Would Never Stop Someone's Letter From Getting To Them, That Was Where The Grow Up Remark Came From...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

I can't believe, having missed the start of this post, I read this whole thing. I have never cared who believed what, or the reasons behind it. I stay away from organised religion, but have come to believe that a personal relationship with the God that I understand, needed no church with a lot of people in it so that's the way I live. I can offer no proof that God exists, at least none you could understand, and no proof based in fact, that he works in my life. But being a dumb human, I can understand, why we fall for the TRUTH, as put by others, and follow blindly to the point of being sheep for the shepherds who they follow with no questions asked. I can see where the suffering of others can be evidence, of there being no God. I can see thru suffering, why you can be angry at God. That's humans for you. Blame God for not doing what we should be doing. Thats easy, and leaves us humans blameless for our shortcomings. The God I understand gives us life and choices, the rest is up to us, what we do with free will, and it doesn't matter whether you believe in God or not, not one bit. What does matter is how you spend this short time on earth, and how you live your life. The rest is as personal as what kind of deodorant you use, as that is choice also. The truth is we don't know, none of us, and we believe what we believe. Not a big deal until you start telling me what I should believe, and dare to try and change me. That's why I just recognise the good in people, and if I can't, I just leave them alone to whatever choice they make. I have no proof that I'm right, but I have no proof your wrong either, so I hope you enjoy your choice as I do mine. But I must admit this relatively quiet, and thoughtful post, is a refreshing change from some of the other "organised ones", and is a great read.

---

Beautifully and eloquently said Tal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

awwwww poor Allheart.... :)

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I love you back, you front, and especially you heart, Feel better? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by talaniman

I love you back, you front, and especially you heart, Feel better?? :)

---

:D

Yes, I do feel better :)

Okay, you all may proceed now :)

(no mention of my feet - but I don't blame you :) -

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BMI

Hi Jillean,

I do place empahsis on certain historical figures in whom I happen to agree with, I think what they have said is very relevent to the original question. Also, if one posts video's and website information to support their beleif than so too shall I. Greg says so and so said this, I say so and so said this. I do not like the argument that many did it b/c of "social suicide", I could say they made the video up for money, I could say something about all of the points refuting the existence of God. It's great you have your beleifs and I do agree with your take on independent thinking, however, my historical references were in relation to perspective and to be viewed as a counter argument against many points within this thread.

I will sincerily apologize to anyone here that I may have offended or sounded smart with, was and is not my intention, sorry Greg. These religious posts always end up the same, although perhaps I contribute to that outcome:)

---

To be fair, I have to admit I still haven't watched the video, so if I took your post wrong because of that, I'm really sorry. I seem to remember someone else (and I thought it was you) on another thread saying essentially that since Einstein was smart and he believed in god, we should all believe in god. I'm sorry if that wasn't you (I've been painting a lot... the fumes might be gettin' to me!), and even sorry-er if that's not your opinion!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jennyrena

Caps On Is Not Me Yelling It's Me Not Turning Them Off......

---

Sorry, but its been a long held convention of cyberspace and even print media that typing in all caps is considered yelling at people. When in Rome...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jennyrena

One Of My Most Favorite People In The World Is An Atheist And I Hug Him Every Time I See Him And I Listen To His Veiws And He To Mine.....
When He Is Gone I Would Have His Blood On My Hands If I Didn't At Least Try To Tell Him ......

---

If that's not one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard! You think you would be responsible for his death because you didn't try to convert him? I don't know how you can maintain a friendship with someone that you treat like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jennyrena

I Love Every Soul And Like God I Don't Want To See Them Perish......
I Have A Soft Spot For Kids And Worry A Great Deal For Them ......

---

No you don't, you just think you do. You mistake evangelizing for concern. You think imposing your own beliefs on people shows love for them. Sorry, lady, but that isn't the way it works. If you love someone you respect their beliefs, you don't keep trying to change them. And you don't try to frighten them with what you believe would be the consequences of them not believing with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jennyrena

I Don't Like Being Attacked For My Opinion, I Haven't Attacked Anyone For There's , Only To You For The Personal Punch.......
My Children Don't Even Behave In Some Of These Manners And Would Never Stop Someones Letter From Getting To Them, That Was Where The Grow Up Remark Came From......

---

You aren't being attacked for your opinion, that's part of what you just don't get. You are being attacked for trying to impose your opinion on others. And what "Personal Punch" are you referring to?

As for stopping someone's letter from getting to them, again you show that you don't understand or (more likely) refuse to understand what is being said to you. I assume you are referring to the other thread. But if you look at that other thread, you will see I didn't stop your first post and even complimented it. It was subsequent posts that attempted to impose your personal beliefs that I stifled. See unlike you, I did have a concern for the OP in that thread. I expressed my concern by advising her to make sure she was comfortable with her decision but offering advice on implementing her decision if she was sure about it.

But I don't want to hijack Greg's thread any further. If you want to discuss this further you are free to start a new discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jennyrena

HOW IS IT RUDE TO BE CONCERNED FOR PEOPLE? LOOK AT OTHER COMMENTS SAYING THAT THERE IS NO GOD. YOUR TALKING ABOUT MY FRIEND. IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING AND ENTERTAIN THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT REAL THEN YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF YOU BELIEVE AND I KNOW. MY OPINION IS AS VALUEABLE AS ANY ONE ELSES, I'M JUST NOT ONE TO SAY WELL DUH MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT OR MAYBE I'M RIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

---

---------------------------------------------------
It is so common for people to show emotion in discussions about religion, it really doesn't help
if a people start getting really sarcastic, or angry. The discussion changes frequently but the topic remains the same. In my opinion"Your friend" does not exist. Now, it has effected my life on thousand levels and here is my most recent reason. I have a brother that is constantly borrowing money off me because he gives X amount of income to his church every month. That would be fine if it were going to a great car or a house payment or even an arcade for his basement. But, I feel I am giving money to the wealthiest being in the infinities, his
"imaginary friend".
There are a lot of other comments stating why people do believe, I do not respond by yelling with my CAPS on. The great thing about this topic is it brings up questions and answers. Maybe the answers are false, but to look at a provided link and not click it but argue its unseen contents is unfair. It seems to be the foundation that this room was built on. I should have named the room " What do you think of this? Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007 " But I didn't. LOL

No worries Jillean.

By the way, I was not me who equated that because Einstein believed in God so should we all. I would have much to say about that idea rest assured:)

Hope everyone can learn a bit from these posts and keeping in the tradition with the site, I Love all too!! Just not as much on a Monday:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Sorry, but its been a long held convention of cyberspace and even print media that typing in all caps is considered yelling at people. When in Rome...



If that's not one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard!! You think you would be responsible for his death because you didn't try to convert him? I don't know how you can maintain a friendship with someone that you treat like that.




No you don't, you just think you do. You mistake evangelizing for concern. You think imposing your own beliefs on people shows love for them. Sorry, lady, but that aint the way it works. If you love someone you respect their beliefs, you don't keep trying to change them. And you don't try to frighten them with what you believe would be the consequences of them not believing with you.





You aren't being attacked for your opinion, that's part of what you just don't get. You are being attacked for trying to impose your opinion on others. And what "Personal Punch" are you referring to?

As for stopping someone's letter from getting to them, again you show that you don't understand or (more likely) refuse to understand what is being said to you. I assume you are referring to the other thread. But if you look at that other thread, you will see I didn't stop your first post and even complimented it. It was subsequent posts that attempted to impose your personal beliefs that I stifled. See unlike you, I did have a concern for the OP in that thread. I expressed my concern by advising her to make sure she was comfortable with her decision but offering advice on implementing her decision if she was sure about it.

But I don't want to hijack Greg's thread any further. If you want to discuss this further you are free to start a new discussion.

---

--------------------------------------
No hijacking here... I enjoy reading all of your responses & opinions. Always calm and well collected! I WISH I WERE ALWAYS AS CALM!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

---------------------------------------------------
In my opinion"Your friend" does not exist. Now, it has effected my life on thousand levels and here is my most recent reason. I have a brother that is constantly borrowing money off of me because he gives X amount of income to his church every month. That would be fine if it were going to a great car or a house payment or even an arcade for his basement. But, I feel I am giving money to the wealthiest being in the infinities, his
"imaginary friend".

---

Hi again GQ - You have to remember that Church laws are made by who?? Man. And man is fallable. Not saying giving X amount is wrong, but Man no matter where is housed
can make mistakes or not use the best judgment.

What I am saying is that there is Church law which normally is derived by what man interprets to be God's law, but anytime man is involved, leave room for error.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, and I almost shutter at saying this. I am Catholic and I love my religion, but church is people and people are not perfect.

So, how do you think I feel, when I walk in a beautiful church, stain glass windows, golden chalisis, and in my mind what do I see... starving people, starving children. Why can't mass be said in a building with chairs lights, AC and heat. And how do you think God sees that.

I love my relgion with all my heart because it works for me, but I also realize that all of us are imperfect and churches do no always reflect God's will 100%... they may try but of course with man involved...

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

awwwww poor Allheart.... :)

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I love you back! LOL

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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I love you back!! LOL

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Now we're cooking... :D

(and thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Hi again GQ - You have to remember that Church laws are made by who???? Man. And man is fallable. Not saying giving X amount is wrong, but Man no matter where is housed
can make mistakes or not use the best judgment.

What I am saying is that there is Church law which normally is derived by what man interprets to be God's law, but anytime man is involved, leave room for error.

I mean no disrespect whatsoever, and I almost shutter at saying this. I am Catholic and I love my religion, but church is people and people are not perfect.

So, how do you think I feel, when I walk in a beautiful church, stain glass windows, golden chalisis, and in my mind what do I see....starving people, starving children. Why can't mass be said in a building with chairs lights, AC and heat. And how do you think God sees that.

I love my relgion with all my heart because it works for me, but I also realize that all of us are imperfect and churches do no always refect God's will 100%...they may try but of course with man involved.....

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Over my life time my Father has given $***,***. 00 to his belief. He never complains and has only made me aware of a % once while on the phone to my Aunt. Wouldn't it have been a great thing to have watched where every penny went or to been able to direct it himself?
My Dad told me when I was about 7yrs old, often (in Canada) groups of members would get together at various homes on Sunday and do their studies, singing, praying and teaching at no cost but a potluck style function. MMMMmmmmm, give me a time machine and I may reconsider my faith. Just Kidding!

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Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

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It is so common for people to show emotion in discussions about religion, it really doesn't help
if a people start getting really sarcastic, or angry. The discussion changes frequently but the topic remains the same. In my opinion"Your friend" does not exist. Now, it has effected my life on thousand levels and here is my most recent reason. I have a brother that is constantly borrowing money off of me because he gives X amount of income to his church every month. That would be fine if it were going to a great car or a house payment or even an arcade for his basement. But, I feel I am giving money to the wealthiest being in the infinities, his
"imaginary friend".
There are a lot of other comments stating why people do believe, I do not respond by yelling with my CAPS on. The great thing about this topic is it brings up questions and answers. Maybe the answers are false, but to look at a provided link and not click it but argue its unseen contents is unfair. It seems to be the foundation that this room was built on. I should have named the room " What do you think of this? Zeitgeist - The Movie, 2007 " But I didn't. LOL

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I acually have a great deal of respect for you. I just am strong in my beliefs and I am not doing my job as a christain worth a flip if I don't at least say what's on my heart. The money thing I can see how it's hard to understand , but just like everything else you need money to run it. A building cost money going to other countries to teach the word of god cost money and most churches have outreach programs and need money for that. I am saddend when I see a preacher driving a porche, so I know what you mean. But it would be awful if there were no churches to worship in and no way to feed the people in the cummunities because people would let go of there money. I don't always give my 10 because I don't always have it. But I'm glad to help our outreach program when I can with my money or my time. I haven't veiwed the site and I will to be fair but I wish I had a site for you to veiw. Because I can't help it, it's just all so scarry to me. Thanks

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Yeh, but no one said the loved me back :(

awwwww poor Allheart.... :)

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Snaps to allheart. You are sweet. Love you

Hey I really don't have time to watch the video. Could someone pleas break it down for me

If knowing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and knowing in my heart that all other ways to heaven is wrong, if that is narroow minded or closed mind, thank God I am, since accepting any other belief will doom your soul.

All real Chrsitains by their very belief have to be closed minded. That does not mean we want to force others to worship our way, but it does not mean we would ever accept their beleifs as correct.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

All real Chrsitains by thier very beleif have to be closed minded.

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Yea, that's pretty the problem.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Yea, that's pretty the problem.

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Not a problem at all, knowing the truth is not a problem, are you not closed minded that the world is round? Since you know that is a fact, well we know that God is real, so denying that would be completely out of line, in fact it is the only reasonable choice.

And knowing one is right and not believing anyone else is not saying you can not either accept the fact they will worship different or not at all, or at worst ignore the fact they don't have your beleifs.

A christian that would say another form of worship or belief would save someone's soul is not a christian, since it goes against their very teachings. And standing up for ones christian beleifs is never wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

If knowing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior and knowing in my heart that all other ways to heaven is wrong, if that is narroow minded or closed mind, thank God I am, since accepting anyother beleif will doom your soul.

All real Chrsitains by thier very beleif have to be closed minded. That does not mean we want to force others to worship our way, but it does not mean we would ever accept thier beleifs as correct.

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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! That's my point I'm not saying you have to believe the way I do. But let me speak my peace just as any one does and it might be of some help you never know, there does however come a time that you have to just shake the dust off your feet and move on, but you have said this well my friend. Please help me in praying for these souls and may god bless you