Ask Me Help Desk - What did God intend for us?

OK and you have a great day to with the in laws.
The elections do not really effect us being over the pond so to speak
Have a great day

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allheart

Hi Sky -

Warm greetings, Allheart!

I'm so sorry - I didn't answer this. :confused: I thought I did, but I didn't.
How are you? I hope well :)

I am well! To God Be the Glory!!

Before I read, can you share with me who Don is. Do you mind?

Thanks,

The best person to answer that for you is Don. You can read the account of what happened to him in the following webpage and his wonderful ministry that ensued, after his brush with death. This is such a truly inspiring story that it has led me to truly see why he writes about Jesus, Heaven and Salvation as he does! Congratulations and Blessings to him and his faith in God!

Don Piper Ministries

On another note, I was surprised to see the conversation that has begun in this thread from page seven forward that is really off-topic to what we have been speaking about. I realize the person you are conversing with says they are a non-Believer but I would prefer that this thread stick only to your original question "What did God intend for us?", and the obvious answer to that is that He intended that we become Saved so as to have an eternal place in Heaven with Him to live in Peace, Light, Tranquility and Love when we pass on and that we come to realize that that is the only way to go if we truly care about our soul when we leave this world and what will happen to it afterwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGem

The best person to answer that for you is Don. You can read the account of what happened to him in the following webpage and his wonderful ministry that ensued, after his brush with death. This is such a truly inspiring story that it has led me to truly see why he writes about Jesus, Heaven and Salvation as he does! Congratulations and Blessings to him and his faith in God!

Don Piper Ministries

On another note, I was surprised to see the conversation that has begun in this thread from page seven forward that is really off-topic to what we have been speaking about. I realize the person you are conversing with says they are a non-Believer but I would prefer that this thread stick only to your original question "What did God intend for us?", and the obvious answer to that is that He intended that we become Saved so as to have an eternal place in Heaven with Him to live in Peace, Light, Tranquility and Love when we pass on and that we come to realize that that is the only way to go if we truly care about our soul when we leave this world and what will happen to it afterwards.

So what you are saying then is that she should not be speaking or writing to a non beliver

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki143

so what you are saying then is that she should not be speaking or writing to a non beliver

It is simply amazing how you would immediately jump to that conclusion or try to conveniently extrapolate from what I was saying. If you would, go back and re-read what I wrote about that and no where do I mention what you are saying other than to say that in my opinion it is inappropriate to go off-topic and talk about children, etc. since this forum and thus, this thread specifically states: "Religious Discussions: What did God Intend for Us?". The Key is Religious Discussions and it appears that you did not want to engage in this by all of what you have been saying with your replies other than to say that you are a non-Believer. It makes it increasingly difficult to follow a serious thread where one would have to almost read each and every reply to see if it is germane to the subject matter and perhaps offer a reply as I have been doing with Allheart. Allheart, as I can see, enjoys speaking with most everyone and that is certainly her right but it is quite distracting when I am trying to follow a thread and it has gone off-topic into another area. That is the long explanation of it.

Well sorry but yeah I am a non beliver and as for what I can see god intent for us was a life of misery pain and suffering. If this god is so good and loving why does allow children to die or suffer abuse.
From what I know about religion you are promised a happy afterlife correct me if I am wrong.
But what if I am right and when you die that is it the end you have lived a life of pain and suffering for nothing

I am sorry to both Sky and Nicki -

In other threads I have also been flagged down for going off topic. I felt a little more comfortable here, because I thought it was good to share a part of each other, with each, as I think that is also what God would want.

But Nicki to you specifically I do apologize, because no matter the topic, relationships, religious disccusions, they do tend to like for us to stay on topic. So I do apologize, but I still enjoyed it very much.

Sky, again I am sorry - and will read what you provided.

Sorry again everyone :(.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki143

Well sorry

Nicki143, no problem! We are now back on topic.

but yeah i am a non beliver and as for what i can see god intent for us was a life of misery pain and suffering.

I'm afraid that what you are seeing or wanting to see as you are saying that what God intended for us was a life of misery and pain is very incorrect. You see, it is not God who intends these things for us. He wants only the Very Best for us! It is we, the people, who bring and attract these kinds of situations into our lives each and every day. God would always want for us to be happy, joyful and prosperous but we, in and of ourselves, are the ones who do not make it so through our free will choice.

If this god is so good and loving why does allow children to die or suffer abuse.

Again, because people and that includes a child's parents, care-takers, family, relatives, friends, etc. are human and not always thoughtful about their children or another's, sometimes things happen and children die or suffer abuse as you say. But again, stop to think, a God who is All-Loving, as God truly is, would want nothing but the very best for our children since it is He who created them in the first place, and as a Loving Father, He takes care of us and our children in our everyday life. When people, on the other hand, cross the line and become abusive with children, they are exercising their own individual free will, be it as wrong as it is (and there are grave consequences for that abuse). God, because He is a God whose Divine Laws look to correct each and every mistake made by his people, will allow such things to happen so that people can learn from their mistakes and hopefully avoid that kind of action or behaviour in the future. When there is abuse of children, adults, elderly, animals, etc. most always that person is brought to justice. God allows that to take place to teach that person who is the abuser as well as many others who have learned of that case, that it is never right to abuse Anyone and the dire consequences of abusing others!

If God did not allow people to learn from their mistakes, we would be living in a most perfect world and then we could never continue to grow spiritually through life experiences and consequences.

From what i know about religion you are promised a happy afterlife correct me if i am wrong.

That is correct but only if you have given your life to Jesus Christ (God's ONLY Begotten Son) and have become "Born Again" (decided to ask for forgiveness for your sins and to accept Jesus as your Savior) as Holy Scriptures say. When you offer your life to Christ and become a Christian, you are guaranteed Eternal life in Heaven (the Afterlife) since Jesus already paid the price for our sins through His suffering and crucifixion and then His glorious Resurrection.

But what if i am right and when you die that is it the end you have lived a life of pain and suffering for nothing

But that is not right as Scriptures tell us differently.

"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in Heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter." -- REVELATION 4:1 (KJV)

"Hereafter" speaks to the Afterlife.

Scripture also tells us this about our Heavenly home:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the Heavens." -- 2 CORINTHIANS 5:1 (KJV)

So, that is God speaking to us about our Heavenly home in the Afterlife.

And so many people (thousands if not millions across the world) have had what is called an NDE (near-death experience) where they have actually died on the operating table, for example, or in a car wreck as Minister Don Piper did, as well as many other cases, and they have been shown Heaven and what it is like for those who truly pass on permanently. These people, who do not know each other from across the world, then have come back after being resuscitated and have told us about their Heavenly experience including standing before God in judgment and a Life Review where we will see all that we have done to others, both the good and the bad, and will actually experience the pain we caused others when we hurt them, as well as the joy and happiness we brought into other's lives when we helped them in some kind way or guided them to Christ. Again, these people have seen Heaven so they know it exists and science has also found ways to prove, empirically speaking, that the Afterlife very much exists and is definitely not a figment of our imagination.

The life of pain and suffering that you speak about is lived by literally everyone on Earth at some point or other and yes, that includes Kings, Queens, Movie Stars, Presidents, Dignitaries, etc. Jesus suffered much on the cross and so will we because we are part of Him through the Holy Trinity and He is our Heavenly Father. There is great virtue to be had when one suffers and that is something the saints realized and why they most always placed themselves in Earthly situations where they would suffer much as they knew that in the long run it would certainly help them spiritually when they pass on to Heaven to live in Eternal Life with Christ and their beloved ones who have passed on before them. Without some degree of suffering, we cannot become closer to God as suffering shows that we are imperfect and thus need to look to God, who is All-Perfect, for guidance, leadership and Eternal Salvation. So, many are glad, even proud to suffer, as was Mother Teresa, for the great Heavenly Cause and that of her own soul and spirit. The bottom line is that we are here in this world (a training ground for higher spiritual life) for such a small amount of time that whatever we suffer here is nothing to be compared with the graces, virtues and Salvation that awaits us in Heaven when we become Saved!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allheart

I am sorry to both Sky and Nicki -

In other threads I have also been flagged down for going off topic. I felt a little more comfortable here, because I thought it was good to share a part of each other, with each, as I think that is also what God would want.

But Nicki to you specifically I do apologize, because no matter the topic, relationships, religious disccusions, they do tend to like for us to stay on topic. So I do apologize, but i still enjoyed it very much.

Sky, again I am sorry - and will read what you provided.

Sorry again everyone :(.

Allheart, warm greetings! No problem! It's just that I, for one, like to follow the topic at hand in the entire thread without being distracted in some way so that I can respond if necessary. This is your thread, however, so you guide it in the way you most feel led, o.k.?

Aw, Sky it's not my thread at all. It's all of ours.

We will put it all behind us.

But first group hug :) (... hug... )

Firstly to you Allheart never feel you have to apologize you have nothing to apolgize for.

To be honest religion is all a bit deep for me but you say when you give your life to jesus you are going to get afterlife but I thought got forgave evryone and loved everyone and jesus paid the price for us so surly will all go. If not I will burn in hell forever.

Like I say bit deep for me trying to understand

I must agree though mother teresa was amazing

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki143

Firstly to you Allheart never feel you have to apologize you have nothing to apolgize for.

To be honest religion is all a bit deep for me but you say when you give your life to jesus you are gonna get afterlife but i thought got forgave evryone and loved everyone and jesus paid the price for us so surly will all go. If not i will burn in hell forever.

Like i say bit deep for me trying to understand

Hi Niki and thanks :)

God most certainly loves us all and yes, all we have to do is accept God's love in our hearts.

I'm not much of a deep person myself, too many words and I sink down fast. (that's where the name Allheart came from). It's just easier for me to think with my heart but I do get frustrated when I don't or even can't use my head (there she goes... off topic)

For me, I know, that God loves each and everyone of us. We hurt, he hurts. And he wants us to love each other.

Niki, quite honestly, sometimes he just carries me through things.

But I promise you Niki, I respect your beliefs and love you all the same. No one on this earth is better then the other.

p.s. I did need to apologize I felt terrible. But it's all okay now. Thanks for being so wonderful about it.

Yeah I think with my heart to.

But the God subject I think it what it is is people these days need to see things to believe you know if we saw something like a proper miracle or some other sign more would believe.
I believe there is something just do not know what so many religions out there

I've always said, the different roads just lead to God.

Just like there are different languages that say I love you differently, but they all mean the same things.

There are times I actually do see God's love, or feel his love. Does that sound odd?
I've said this earlier, have you ever seen a special needs child smile... doesn't it just take your heart? I honestly see God's love in that child. That child smiles the biggest smile and is happier then most, and I believe it's because God is watching over that beautiful child.

There are times at work, that people tend to get upset, or short fused. We all have those moments, myself included. Or someone just comes off so awful that it jolts you. When I remember, and I don't always, I was taught to pray for that person. Don't retalliate, pray that God's healing hands and light shine on that person and surround them and touch their heart and keep them safe.

Nicki I promise you, honest to peanuts, :) my hand in there air, every time I have ever done that, sincerely prayed for them from my heart, within minutes, hours or even the next day, I am greeted with a smile and a completely different converstation with that person. All that upset... just gone.

I just share that with you, because it actually did happen.

Nicki, I want you to trust me, I would never ever force anything on anyone. That's not my place at all. I am a human and a step away from making a mistake. All I can share with you is what is in my heart or what I may have been taught but as I said before I accept Nicki for Nicki and if you can accept my "dizziness" then you deserve a special prize :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki143

Yeah i think with my heart to.

But the God subject i think it what it is is people these days need to see things to belive you know if we saw something like a proper miracle or some other sign more would belive.
I belive there is something just do not know what so many religions out there

I know what you are trying to say here. Yet, when people confronted Jesus with the very same question, He answered them this way:

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast Believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have Believed." -- JOHN 20:29 (KJV)

So, those who simply Believe without wanting proof as with scientists, are the ones whom Jesus considers truly blessed because they do not question. They see with their heart without having to have physical evidence.

When people saw Jesus before them while He was incarnate, they too Believed, but when He died, was buried and then Resurrected, He had this to say to them:

"Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." -- JOHN 14:19-21 (KJV)

Scripture goes on to say:

"Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet Believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." 1 PETER 1: 8-9; 25 (KJV)

It is so wonderful to Believe without having to be shown physical evidence. That is what true Faith is based upon. So, this is what The Bible says about those who doubt and want to see miracles, etc. done before they will Believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki143

Yeah i think with my heart to.

But the God subject i think it what it is is people these days need to see things to belive you know if we saw something like a proper miracle or some other sign more would belive.
I belive there is something just do not know what so many religions out there

I would just like to say that during the time of the messengers of the Almighty and the times when Prophets were sent,there were miracles seen by the people living then,but only those who wanted to believe believed.A lot of them called the messengers liars and did not believe.

The same would happen in this day and age,those who see the light will see it and those who do not,will someday or maybe, they never will .
Those who do believe see the miracles everyday of their lives,while those who do not see will put those very same miracles to the work of humans,their own hard work, just plain luck,nature,etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

I would just like to say that during the time of the messengers of the Almighty and the times when Prophets were sent,there were miracles seen by the people living then,but only those who wanted to believe believed.A lot of them called the messengers liars and did not believe.

The same would happen in this day and age,those who see the light will see it and those who do not,will someday or maybe, they never will .
Those who do believe see the miracles everyday of their lives,while those who do not see will put those very same miracles to the work of humans,their own hard work, just plain luck,nature,etc

Firm that is very true.

Even if a mircale was seen, some would not believe. I think maybe it's a fear of being hurt, in case it isn't true.

It's similar to someone saying, He is so nice, he's such a big help and someone else having a completely different view of who the guy really is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allheart

But first group hug :) (........hug........)

Thank you, Allheart! A BIG hug to everyone!

Very interesting and complex question for us to ponder FIRM! I guess we all have our own ideas about this so here it goes..
First, I don't think there are any absolutes with God. I don't think my response is a religious one, but rather a personal and spiritual perspective based on my views on what I perceive as God. I think God is the energy that encompasses all of us, the good the bad, the right the wrong and everything in between. This is because we were created with the ability to choose our ideas, beliefs, awareness, understanding, lifestyle and moral standards (or lack thereof.) From my own perspective, God doesn't have an opinion. Just an inifinite love for all of us, whether we believe in it or not, isn't the issue. God didn't make the rules, we did. Throughout history we have been given the tools to understand and what ever makes sense to us we grab on to. This is because we have no definite answers, only what seems to be the correct perspective. Life has been given to us to utilize the gifts we have been given and to love and be loved. What we do with our lives is totally up to us. A creator with the ability to give us life isn't going to judge or decide how we live it. The way we live our life may determine the next one, but I don't think it's a punishment or a reward, its based on enlightenment and where our soul is on the journey of this existence, and what it is ready for in the next.
Second, I think if God were available in physical form, there wouldn't be a choosing of one person or another, God would be available and ready to help anyone, regardless of the circumstances or their beliefs.
Also, God is a name we give for the creation of all that is because that is what we are taught. I believe in the wonder and miracle of life and I do think that everything we have around us is a gift. I choose to believe in that, but if I didn't that doesn't mean my existence is worth any less to God.
Being forgiving, loving and kind are the virtues of all religions so no matter what the circumstances are, this is the universal language of God. It applies to all people, not just those who believe in the greatness and wonder of our creation.
HOW do I feel when my kids bicker? I feel sad. I get frustrated and I try to make them work it out and get along. I don't think God feels sad, I think God loves unconditionally and waits with neverending patience for our recognition of God within ourselves.
I don't know if I make sense, this is just what came to me. Love you FIRMY!! Long time no chat. Thanks for challenging me.. you always do!! Xo

Whoops, I mean Allheart, very good question. Firmy, very interesting perspective. Sorry I am a little out of it today... I love you both and appreciate the stimulating questions and answers from you both!!

Thank you Allheart and shattered...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicki143

To be honest religion is all a bit deep for me but you say when you give your life to jesus you are gonna get afterlife but i thought got forgave evryone and loved everyone and jesus paid the price for us so surly will all go. If not i will burn in hell forever.

No, you won't burn in hell forever if you just Accept Jesus! That is the KEY and something you can do for yourself and your Salvation in just a moment! There's nothing hard about it!

Like i say bit deep for me trying to understand

When you give your life to Jesus and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior, you are guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven! God indeed does Love everyone and Jesus did pay the price for us on the cross and that is a most important part of our Salvation but the part that "seals Salvation" is when you profess Jesus as your Lord and Savior, ask for forgiveness of your sins and Believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then Resurrected to bring us life, because the Holy Bible tells us that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. When you do that, since Jesus has paid the price on the cross already, you become Saved. Do you see how truly simple that is now? What a small price to pay for your Eternal Salvation! Frankly, I cannot understand why anyone would even have to 'think' about doing this, without jumping at the chance to become Saved when all it takes is Accepting Jesus. That's it! There should be literally no hesitation about this matter because the anti-Christ is also in this world ready and very able to sway people's minds into thinking that one does not need to give their life to Christ to become Saved. They indeed do. But knowing that it is so simple to become Saved, when one means it and goes to Jesus with contrite heart, is the part that satan does not want for you to know about. He would like to make it seem as if all of that is time-consuming, when in reality, it isn't! He would like to place many thoughts in one's mind as reasons not to do it, so when the time comes, you will not enter Heaven but instead go into a place of pain, suffering and eternal darkness for having rejected Christ.

If the adversary can win people over by his lies, then he would have met his goal. So, it is very important that people become aware of his evil plotting methods to try to win you over instead of you going to your Creator, God. Afterall, lucifer was once a very bright angel of God and he had it all until he, in his envy of God, decided that he wanted to be just like God and that is when God punished and condemned him and all of his follower angels to eternal darkness for disobedience. Ever since then, satan has been after souls right here in this world to take. He will stop at nothing to try to keep people from going to Heaven. Fortunately, we are much smarter than he! We know his tricks and what really gets us Saved! Praise Be God Forever!

You may wish to go to the following website to learn more about this most important undertaking. And as you do, please also remember the thousands of people who have DIED today as they do each and every day throughout the world without becoming Saved. That is truly sad, but they may have thought that they had tomorrow or the next day or the next to become Saved and did not want to take the extra 30 seconds to a minute to say the prayer to become Saved. Unfortunately for them, it was too late when their time came up and they died un-Saved. Don't become one of those statistics! Your life here and hereafter is Precious and worth a whole lot more than to simply surrender it to the adversary. Give it to Jesus instead! You'll be very glad you did when you see His kingdom in Heaven at the time of your passing and the beauty, wonders, Light, mercy, peace, compassion and Eternal Love that is part of what one gets when they are Saved. So, now I hope you understand how to become Saved. Remember, it only takes a moment to go to Jesus with deep sincerity and tell Him that you are sorry for your past sins and from now on you Accept Him as your Lord and Savior who came in the flesh and you Believe He is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then resurrected! May God Bless those who have taken the extra minute to Save their soul and spirit and will be entering Heaven at their appointed time.

Please also visit the following website:

Don Piper Ministries

IT scares me a little bit when someone writes verbatum what they are being preached with such reverance. I am curious how you explain your personal relationship with God, other than what is in the bible. What do you believe in your heart SKYGEM, separate from sinning and being SAVED? I guess I am asking because I see God a lot different and I don't think you realize that not everyone views God EXACTLY as you, but I am not confused, nor is the subject too deep for me to ponder or explain my perception. I feel that God is within me and within all of us. The punishment or reward that you think happens when you believe, I don't think has anything to do with God. I think it has to do with people throughout history who believed that is what God wanted us to think. We don't have to be SAVED to be loved by God, we are loved because we exist. Some people need specific rules to follow to feel safe and secure in their relationship with God, others don't. That doesn't mean your perception is the only one, or the correct one for me.
I don't need to visit a ministry website for my faith but maybe that is what you need. All of us have the ability to choose to believe what we want. God would not have given us free will, if we were going to be punished for using it in the end. Through our mistakes and failures is where the real spiritual growth begins. So if we never sinned, how we would we ever learn? I think we were made flawed human beings because we were meant to make mistakes, sin and learn to be better on our own. NOt because we might be punished in the end. That is my view anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

IT scares me a little bit when someone writes verbatum what they are being preached with such reverance.

I know the feeling, shatteredsoul, how well I know the feeling! It scares me too, but more than just a little bit when someone writes questioning the word of God and trying to redirect souls who are searching for Jesus to another way of life totally devoid of Him. It is indeed pretty scary!

I am curious how you explain your personal relationship with God, other than what is in the bible. What do you believe in your heart SKYGEM, separate from sinning and being SAVED?

What I Believe, shatteredsoul, are the things I write about passionately, brought about both through Scripture and through God's personal enlightenment in my life. Absent that, I would not at all be the strong Born Again Christian that I am but rather one who would foolishly believe that the sea made me, or an animal, or perhaps the forest or the wind. I also Believe that we are being given a grand opportunity, a true Blessing to help those who are lost and do not realize that Salvation is as important as life itself, because everyone, literally everyone, will be entering another life when this physical life ceases to be and if they are not prepared and have listened only to non-Believers their soul and spirit is in real DANGER and true Christians simply cannot let that happen just to try to appease infidels.The cost of a fellow human being's soul not entering Heaven is simply too high!

I guess I am asking because I see God a lot different and I don't think you realize that not everyone views God EXACTLY as you, but I am not confused, nor is the subject too deep for me to ponder or explain my perception.

While there can be no doubt that you do indeed see God a lot different than I, shatteredsoul, the very fact that many across the world who had a less than sterling view of God at one time, have started listening to those who spoke or wrote about God's word, those who took their time to introduce them to God to tell them who He is and what He can do in their life, caused many to change their viewpoint and they became Christians and even Born Again! That is what makes it all worthwhile, shatteredsoul. If even ONE person who comes to visit here reads what I have to say in these forums and then decides to become Saved, then it would have all been worth the effort! If Scripture does not personally resonate with you, then it should be simply a process of not wanting to visit a RELIGIOUS forum that you do not gravitate towards or that would offend your personal beliefs in some way. But don't try to distract others from hearing the word of God as they may be very hungry for the word even if you personally aren't.

I feel that God is within me and within all of us. The punishment or reward that you think happens when you believe, I don't think has anything to do with God.

It has everything to do with God. God certainly does not reward an infidel with Salvation who chooses to never change their viewpoint, for example. Scripture is most clear about that and I would be most happy to quote Scripture to you on that. He does reward a Born Again Christian who has personally accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior! That is the distinction that simply has to be made each and every time we enter into these kinds of discussions. The word of God is very clear that nobody can enter Heaven (thus, be Saved) without acknowledging Jesus Christ and Accepting Him before they make their transition from this Earthly life. And if you were to ask me about what happens to those of other faiths, I can only say that they may indeed not want to go to Heaven, since there is only ONE true God, that is, why would they want to be in Heaven with Jesus Christ, since they don't believe in Him in the first place. So, why go to be with someone for Eternity that you don't Believe in? For those who do not Believe, that is their own personal choice. But many others do Believe or are "warming up" to Jesus, perhaps on the brink of accepting Him as their Lord and Savior and may very well come to Believe before their time comes up if God is merciful in not calling them to judgment before they have reached the conclusion that they were made by God and need Jesus His only Begotten Son, so they can enter Heaven. Scripture is very exact on this. This is not me making this up, shatteredsoul. But I know that some un-Believers (fortunately, not all of them) may never grasp what we Christians are saying and why we say it. Let me show you the exact Biblical verses so you will know (and incidentally, why so many others have decided, after reading these very Scriptures, that they willfully want to give their life to Christ and Accept Him).

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be Born Again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." -- JOHN 3:3 (KJV). One is "Born Again" in *Spirit*, as the flesh is born only of flesh.

"He that Believeth on Him (Jesus Christ) is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not Believed in the name of the Only Begotten Son of God." -- JOHN 3:18 (KJV)

"Jesus saith unto him, I Am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." -- JOHN 14:6 (KJV)

Again, shatteredsoul, Many People Are Listening! They understand what the above three Scriptures are saying and what they signify and indicate and how it can affect them Personally not only in this life but especially in the Hereafter or Afterlife. It is those people we are trying to reach.

I think it has to do with people throughout history who believed that is what God wanted us to think. We don't have to be SAVED to be loved by God, we are loved because we exist.

We can indeed all be Loved by God and we are as we are all His creations, and yes, that includes even you, shatteredsoul, like it or not. Therefore, quite plainly, God Loves You also! But we would not be able to be *Saved* unless we accept Jesus, God's ONLY Begotten Son. And it simply cannot be a hard thing to do to Accept Jesus if one truly cares about Saving their soul. We can be Loved by God but not Saved by Him and that is a Very Important Difference! Of course, if one doesn't accept Jesus (due to their free will), then that is something to contend with when one passes on and sees that they are not admitted or permitted into the Holy place reserved only for those who Believed in Jesus and Accepted Him while incarnate on Earth. But again, why in the world would anyone want to go to Heaven who does not first Believe in Jesus? For instance, if you are not a Believer, you would not want to go to spend the rest of your eternal spiritual life in tranquility, Peace and Love with Jesus, now would you! Of course not. Why would you! And those who do not Believe in Him will certainly get their wish by not going to Heaven, according to Scripture, so that should settle the matter most succinctly once and for all. Remember, there is no other way to Heaven but through Jesus.

Some people need specific rules to follow to feel safe and secure in their relationship with God, others don't. That doesn't mean your perception is the only one, or the correct one for me.

Obviously not, shatteredsoul. But remember, you are only one of MANY. Many others are Still Searching!

Jesus explains it this way.

"For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things. For our conversation is in Heaven; from whense also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto himself." -- PHILIPPIANS 3:18-21 (KJV)

If your perception of God is that you don't want to have anything to do with Him and it has been this long a time that you have kept on denying Him, then your own free will will obviously keep you from entering Heaven and that would give you the true freedom you apparently yearn for so much. And more Great News for you personally, It's a Done Deal, with no arm-twisting, if you do not choose to amend your ways! But Scripture strongly warns people about this. It then becomes their own Personal Choice! If you feel and know you are secure without Jesus in your life right now, then you obviously do not need to go to Heaven to be with Jesus after you die that much is certain, as that would certainly be sheer hypocrisy if you still wanted to go and of course, you wouldn't be able to anyway according to Scripture, shatteredsoul. That should be clear enough for your understanding.

I don't need to visit a ministry website for my faith but maybe that is what you need. All of us have the ability to choose to believe what we want.

Except that many still don't know what they want because others have told them it is alright for them to not Believe and they are therefore confused into thinking that they will still enter Heaven and be Saved even if they don't Believe in Jesus. Nothing could be further from the Truth and we have to correct that and make that crystal clear for those people, shatteredsoul, not for people like you that shun Christ and wish all others would also. Many others still very much need the word of God and we are here to provide it to them in these RELIGIOUS forums. Praise Be To God!

God would not have given us free will, if we were going to be punished for using it in the end.

God gives one free will to help them make the RIGHT choice in order to gain Salvation. However, even though He would be very much disappointed in a person rejecting His Only Begotten Son Jesus, He does not absolutely insist that non-Believers be Saved if they choose not to be. But by His grace, mercy and compassion He offers you and others the *chance* to be Saved. If you, however, choose not to be, then the punishment you receive is virtually Your Own, inflicted only by You, and not Him since He first gave you a Fair Chance through your free will to join Him. You will have no one else to blame for that but yourself, shatteredsoul. The simple truth is that you dig your own grave, then you lie in it. But then that would have been due to your own personal choice. And no, you won't be forced to enter Heaven and be with God when you choose not to be. No way that's ever going to happen! That's the beautiful part about God giving us Free Will in this matter. We can literally choose His Light along with All of His Love in Heaven, or complete and total darkness! But you can't have it both ways, Biblically speaking.

Through our mistakes and failures is where the real spiritual growth begins. So if we never sinned, how we would we ever learn? I think we were made flawed human beings because we were meant to make mistakes, sin and learn to be better on our own. NOt because we might be punished in the end. That is my view anyway.

I can see that is your viewpoint, shatteredsoul. Spiritual growth indeed does begin with mistakes and failures but only as a LEARNING PROCESS/MECHANISM/TOOL for continued spiritual growth. But God also explains it in a very different way that includes punishment for not changing from our evil ways of sinning just as Jesus told Mary Magdalene after He had driven the devils from her that she should "Go and Sin No More." He meant that for us too you know. But He sends those of us who are aligned spiritually with Him, those who can truly discern His Word, and He gives us authorization to speak to others about these matters so they can understand what He expects of us when we make our mistakes and commit sins and teaches us how to avoid sin in the future if we truly embrace His word. Here is what we hold dear to our heart when we go out into the world to teach others about Jesus. Fortunately, the Internet makes it very possible for us to go into all the world to preach and teach!

"And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." -- MARK 16:15 (KJV)

"Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart." -- EPHESIANS 6:6 (KJV)

However, if one does not have God's Spirit in his or her heart to begin with, he or she simply cannot discern what we will be telling or teaching them and that is why it is so difficult for them to understand the word of God.

"But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are SPIRITUALLY discerned." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 2:10-14 (KJV)

In doing the work of God by bringing His Word unto others, this is Jesus speaking to His Christian Brethren and others who would later come to Believe in Him.

"Whosoever shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in Heaven." -- MATTHEW 10:32 (KJV)

Shatteredsoul, there can be no greater comfort and joy, indeed a real blessing, than in knowing that He will confess me before His Father in Heaven as I have confessed Him as my Lord and Savior, before you and all others reading these words! Blessed Be God Forever! And shatteredsoul, I want to thank you for asking these questions and making these statements prompting me to reply, since without your posting, I might not have had the wonderful opportunity to continue to speak even more about Jesus Christ, Scriptures and Salvation! We must thus, never end the dialog.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

Interesting topic. Worth investigating.

What does Scripture say:

Ephesians 5 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

2 Timothy 4 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.

For the most part. Not always though.

Apparently that is what Paul thought he was supposed to do:

Acts Of Apostles 17 17 He disputed, therefore, in the synagogue with the Jews, and with them that served God, and in the marketplace, every day with them that were there.

And we are called to imitate Paul:

1 Corinthians 11 1 Be ye followers of me, as I also am of Christ.

He is saddened when believers bicker back and forth. We are His children.

Psalms 13 1 Unto the end, a psalm for David. The fool hath said in his heart: There is no God, They are corrupt, and are become abominable in their ways: there is none that doth good, no not one.

To whom did He appear always in Salvation History? Always to the Just.

I can think of no example in Scripture where God appeared to a non believer except to punish them. Compare Moses and Pharoah. He blessed Moses and punished Pharaoh.

Can you think of any examples where God appeared to a non believer?

Again. The Revelation of God is clear. Without faith it is impossible to please God. And that is only logical.

Lets take an example. Say someone loves you and your children but hates your mom and dad. And insults your mom and dad at every opportunity.

Do you expect your mom and dad to love that person as they love you?

Well, St. Paul loves God, doesn't he:

1 Corinthians 16 22 If any man love not our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema, maranatha.

Essentially, St. Paul, in the Word of God has condemned any man who does not love Jesus Christ to hell.

I think that is where you are making your mistake. Although God created all mankind, many men do not recognize God's Divine Fatherhood. God is Just. He does not force men to love Him. But He recognizes those who do and considers them His children.

John 10 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep. 27 My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me. 28 And I give them life everlasting; and they shall not perish for ever, and no man shall pluck them out of my hand

Colossians 3 6 For which things the wrath of God cometh upon the children of unbelief,

Philippians 2 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world.

So, although God wants all men to come to salvation. Many men do not want God's salvation.

The reason I debate with these atheists is because they have their own little section in this forum. But they would rather come here and attack our Christian beliefs.

Is it fair that they should attack our faith with impunity?

You can check all you want in the atheist forums. You won't find me there. I came to this forum to answer questions of the faith.

Sincerely,

De Maria

lovely job!! I think when you believe something you believe fully and you do not compromise. God's people are not perfect but we are his.
God said that he sent his son for the lost and I believe he would hug them. But I also know that we must go out and win souls to God as best we can and of course no ones going to like it. Who likes there toes stepped on? He said that sin can not enter his kingdom and the only way to wash those sins is by the blood of Jesus. The bible says that people will stand before him that did great works and if there heart wasn't right he would say ''depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you'' there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth( I cry just thinking about it)i like to see people who are kind hearted and good. But we have to remember that it takes seeking god consistently or it will do you no good~ the road to hell is paved with good intentions. He also said that you can't serve two masters. People serve the devil everyday and they don't mean to nor do they realize it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shatteredsoul

I think God is the energy that encompasses all of us, the good the bad, the right the wrong and everything in between. This is because we were created with the ability to choose our ideas, beliefs, awareness, understanding, lifestyle and moral standards (or lack thereof.) From my own perspective, God doesn't have an opinion. Just an inifinite love for all of us, whether we believe in it or not, isn't the issue. God didn't make the rules, we did. Throughout history we have been given the tools to understand and what ever makes sense to us we grab on to. This is because we have no definite answers, only what seems to be the correct perspective. Life has been given to us to utilize the gifts we have been given and to love and be loved. What we do with our lives is totally up to us. A creator with the ability to give us life isn't going to judge or decide how we live it. The way we live our life may determine the next one, but I don't think its a punishment or a reward, its based on enlightenment and where our soul is on the journey of this existence, and what it is ready for in the next.

Yes! Very well put. I hear you loud and clear, SS, but the radically inclusive God that you and I accept is invisible to those who worship a Book and exalt their own interpretation if it as embodying the very thoughts of God. Regrettably, there is very little to say to a person who thinks that their own interpretation of ink on paper is the Word of God.

So true cowboy, so true. Thanks OG

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGem

Yes, it does. It is indeed a blessing to have parents who teach us the Golden Rule and then care enough about us to follow-through and see that we are not led astray and end up on the wayward path without God in our life. Blessed are those who have such parents! May God bless them always and forever. For those who do not, and have never been taught about God, I and others are here to speak to you about God and how you need Him in your life. Once you have Jesus as your Savior, you have it ALL! What greater gift than in knowing that you will go to Heaven when you pass on and will see others and be reunited with them, people whom you loved in this life, but most importantly, that you will see your Creator who loves you and will be there at your special time of transition waiting for you with open arms and a Big Smile on His face as He welcomes you back Home! That is what makes me personally feel so special in having that kind of relationship with Jesus Christ, but the beautiful part about this is that literally anyone can have that too who asks to have Him in their life!

There is no greater gift indeed!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyGem

When you give your life to Jesus and Accept Him as your Lord and Savior, you are guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven! God indeed does Love everyone and Jesus did pay the price for us on the cross and that is a most important part of our Salvation but the part that "seals Salvation" is when you profess Jesus as your Lord and Savior, ask for forgiveness of your sins and Believe that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then Resurrected to bring us life, because the Holy Bible tells us that the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ. When you do that, since Jesus has paid the price on the cross already, you become Saved. Do you see how truly simple that is now? What a small price to pay for your Eternal Salvation! Frankly, I cannot understand why anyone would even have to 'think' about doing this, without jumping at the chance to become Saved when all it takes is Accepting Jesus. That's it! There should be literally no hesitation about this matter because the anti-Christ is also in this world ready and very able to sway people's minds into thinking that one does not need to give their life to Christ to become Saved. They indeed do. But knowing that it is so simple to become Saved, when one means it and goes to Jesus with contrite heart, is the part that Satan does not want for you to know about. He would like to make it seem as if all of that is time-consuming, when in reality, it isn't! He would like to place many thoughts in one's mind as reasons not to do it, so when the time comes, you will not enter Heaven but instead go into a place of pain, suffering and eternal darkness for having rejected Christ.

If the adversary can win people over by his lies, then he would have met his goal. So, it is very important that people become aware of his evil plotting methods to try to win you over instead of you going to your Creator, God. Afterall, Lucifer was once a very bright angel of God and he had it all until he, in his envy of God, decided that he wanted to be just like God and that is when God punished and condemned him and all of his follower angels to eternal darkness for disobedience. Ever since then, Satan has been after souls right here in this world to take. He will stop at nothing to try to keep people from going to Heaven. Fortunately, we are much smarter than he! We know his tricks and what really gets us Saved! Praise Be God Forever!

You may wish to go to the following website to learn more about this most important undertaking. And as you do, please also remember the thousands of people who have DIED today as they do each and every day throughout the world without becoming Saved. That is truly sad, but they may have thought that they had tomorrow or the next day or the next to become Saved and did not want to take the extra 30 seconds to a minute to say the prayer to become Saved. Unfortunately for them, it was too late when their time came up and they died unSaved. Don't become one of those statistics! Your life here and hereafter is Precious and worth a whole lot more than to simply surrender it to the adversary. Give it to Jesus instead! You'll be very glad you did when you see His kingdom in Heaven at the time of your passing and the beauty, wonders, Light, mercy, peace, compassion and Eternal Love that is part of what one gets when they are Saved. So, now I hope you understand how to become Saved. Remember, it only takes a moment to go to Jesus with deep sincerity and tell Him that you are sorry for your past sins and from now on you Accept Him as your Lord and Savior who came in the flesh and you Believe He is the Only Begotten Son of God who died for us and then resurrected! May God Bless those who have taken the extra minute to Save their soul and spirit and will be entering Heaven at their appointed time.

Please also visit the following website:

Don Piper Ministries

only if carnal eyes could see huh! If we are not suppose to strive each day to be like Christ and if we can enter into heaven full of sin then why did God allow his son to be born on this earth as the ultimate sacrifice so that the blood that he shed may cleanse the sin from our hearts. Why I ask did this happen to the only perfect soul to ever walk the face of this earth. I wish I could help people to see that, yes we are to love (GOD IS LOVE) but he is also a jealous God with wrath and vengeance for the evildoers in this world that have MADE THE CHOSE to live the way that God said do not live. He sent his son not for the holy but for the sinners and he looks on them with love. But the day will come (and what a sad day it will be)when even God will turn them away, he will only knock so many times. But I say to you that your work will not go unnoticed or unrewarded. You are doing just what he said to do. Do not get discouraged, for when a seed is planted it takes time for it to grow.