@Brother Rando

All that quote of ancient man is well and good but what does that have to do with your own personal relationship with the God that you understand? I can get with spreading the word and respect that's what you choose to do, and while the ancients are interesting, it would help my understanding of YOU, as an example of a true believer, if you can tie the relevance of ancient Christians to the reality of modern man since Jesus was a jew and taught from the jewish "bible". So now that Jewish bible is irrelevant, since his followers have started their own religion?

Yes, I get that a lot. Thanks for your comment though, as least I know I'm doing the right thing. The truth about Jehovah's Witnesses

Ya, your link "The truth about Jehovah's Witnesses", lost me as soon as I started reading and it started with JW's being the only true Christians walking the Earth.

That's your opinion, and your belief, and of course you believe it, otherwise you wouldn't be a JW. But, that's not everyone's belief, and it's very disrespectful to say that your religion is the only one that's worthy, that you're the only true Christians. What a load of bull. Every Christian believes they're the only ones following the true path, and that their God is the only true God.

If you want to talk about the bible, fine. If you want to talk about what God means to you, fine. But when you start preaching your religion as the only true religion, that's when people slam the door in your face. It's an insult, and above all, it's not accurate.

Religion is like a penis. It's okay to have one, and it's okay to be proud of it, but it's not okay to shove it in other people's face.

According to Bible Prophecy, Religion will be destroyed soon. The Political elements are already bringing her to nothing. No public Prayer. No Bibles in Federal Public Squares including courtrooms. When Religion thinks they had stopped Jehovah's Witnesses from witnessing about God's Name Jehovah and that Jesus is "the Christ, the son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16) something marvelous happens. I'm not telling you this in order to convert you, but to give you a witness.

"Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (1 Thessalonians 5:3)

Take Care...
Brother Rando

PS... When Religion goes down... Good riddance! Normally people go to prison for crimes such as killing someone. But JW's are put in prison for reusing to kill anyone. https://www.jw.org/en/news/

You don't need religion to believe in God, or to be a good person. Public prayer does nothing, and the bible is just a book. That's my belief.

No matter what you say you'd never convert me, so post your beliefs. Just remember that your beliefs are just that, yours. They do not encompass the world. If you want a debate, fine, just keep it friendly. But from what you post it doesn't look like you want a debate, you want a platform to preach on, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

Like I said before, religion is like a penis, and I'm so sick of people sticking their penis in my face. Why can't people of religion wait for people to ask about it? Why do they feel the need to preach to everyone? If it's so great, why aren't people coming to your door begging you to tell them about your God?

It just all feels very cultish to me.

It's cool to be the only true Christians, though I think other Christians would take umbrage at that claim, and dismiss it as just that, a claim, and not a statement of fact, and some admire the zeal in which you present your case, which personally seems the path to martyrdom rather than salvation, but to each his own I suppose. There should be something romantic in emulating the ways of ancient man, but its hard to excuse not accepting the reality of the human condition, including its history of evolution and development.

You seem to be stuck in the "back then" and unable to embrace the good of your fellow humans who are not exactly like you, and have no wish to be, but fortunately you also seem to be a stubborn minority, a small part of a greater story in which while we cannot change it, and certainly we should not, we cannot embrace it fully, but must accept it as is. Every human deserves that I think no matter how nutty they may sound.

I must confess a sadness though that you may never get in touch with the fact, and reality of God though, that's rather easy to understand, and that is in embracing all the other humans, as we are all connected to the same CREATOR, no matter the language of our religion, or how we celebrate it. It is indeed the imperative to not put such artificial conscript of human flaws before that reality.

I doubt even your own faith can deny that FACT. Though some understand it better than others, there is no excuse for ANY human to think he is better than another. Back to you.

Every member of religion should feel that their religion is the only true religion. Otherwise, why be in it?

However, just as the first century christians refused to take up arms , AS a whole, we reject engaging in war because we are neutral and the Bible states not to murder.

He said to him: “Which ones?” Jesus said: “You must not murder, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not bear false witness," (Matthew 19:18)



Here's an article if you want to a look at it. Why Don't Jehovah Witnesses Go to War?

Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17).

That's correct and as a religion Jehovah Witnesses are alone in this. They submit to the laws of the land but refuse to go against God's Law. Therefore we will not go out and kill when nations are in conflicts.

We respect the Flag and will stand for it, giving it respect. But we do not worship it for our God Jehovah is a Jealous God. You will not find a Jehovah Witness burning the Flag, or desecrating the Flag in any manner. Pay back to Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Jehovah will bring one enemy of his to another enemy to conflict by confusion and they will turn on there own. "Then Moses said to the people: “Do not be afraid. Stand firm and see the salvation of Jehovah that he will perform for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you will never ever see again. Jehovah himself will fight for you, and you will keep silent.” (Exodus 14:13-14)

"You will not need to fight this battle. Take your position, stand still, and see the salvation of Jehovah in your behalf." (1 Chronicles 20:17)

Jehovah Witness simply do not engage in warfare. "You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48)

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Originally Posted by Brother Rando

That's correct and as a religion Jehovah Witnesses are alone in this. They submit to the laws of the land but refuse to go against God's Law. Therefore we will not go out and kill when nations are in conflicts.

etc., etc., etc.


Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:43-48)

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That is a well-stated position regarding JW pacificism. Conscientious objection is a recognized stance in the US and other nations. On the other hand, it should be obvious that some Biblical authors took the opposite position as WG has cited.

Later, Augustine formed his "just war" theory which most Christians have followed ever since. Thank God he did or else we would all be living under tyrants. In the Gospels Jesus exhibited righteous anger and he famously said Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's, which can be taken in more than one way and which Augustine used in support of his theory.

As dwashbur said previously in this thread, those who study ancient languages (such as the Bible IN ITS ENTIRETY) can come up with various solutions, not always the same.

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Originally Posted by Brother Rando

Every member of religion should feel that their religion is the only true religion. Otherwise, why be in it?

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That is exactly my point! EVERYBODY thinks they are right, and EVERYBODY else is wrong! A typical human flaw that justifies all kinds of word, actions and behaviors that are patently IMPERFECT, and frankly distracts from grasping the REAL truth.

Is not denigrating other religions, but your own bearing false witness?

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Originally Posted by talaniman

That is exactly my point! EVERYBODY thinks they are right, and EVERYBODY else is wrong! A typical human flaw that justifies all kinds of word, actions and behaviors that are patently IMPERFECT, and frankly distracts from grasping the REAL truth.

Is not denigrating other religions, but your own bearing false witness?

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Excellent point. I meant to include this comment of Brother Rando in my post but I forgot. Agree 100% with Talinman.

Also, I heartily disagree with the notion that every member of a religion should think his is the only true one. No religion believes that anymore except for a handful of folks still living in the Middle Ages.

Even the Catholic Church ("There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church") has softened its stance on this belief, although grudgingly, I admit.

In (John 17:1) Jesus Christ approached his Father in pray openly with his disciples listening and stated, "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)

"I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word." (John 17:6)

Soon, all wickedness will be removed from the earth so that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ can be worshiped without demonic opposition and JEHOVAH'S name will be vindicated WORLDWIDE. Jesus prayed, "Our Father hallowed be your Name". Jehovah Witnesses are the only true Christians going door to door "hallowing the Father's Name" by making it known.

Sorry... Only Jehovah Witnesses believe that... they just annoy the Hell out of the rest of us. I stopped trying to be nice to get rid of them years ago... I think they finally got the message because they don't bang on my door any more...

I'm not Atheist or agnostic... I'm a Protestant, I've spent more time in a Catholic Church the last 25 years than my own Because wife IS... but there is no chance I'll ever become Catholic, because I just don't agree with so much of where they Differ. And Nobody is going to convince me otherwise....

My Uncle is no longer a JW because when my aunt needed an operation they hounded them to NOT allow a transfusion and she died as a result...during post op bleeding days after the operation.there was another family nearby where I grew up that had two kids that suffered severe brain damage from high fevers when young due to doctrine that refuses medication (neither would ever be able to care for themselves as adults with a mental capacity of a 3 year old) they were much older than I was, and knew of a few others as well.

That is NOT something in the bible, that is a doctrine created by leaders of the JW who were nothing more than men/women.

Also many of them DON'T know the scripture as well as they think.....some elderly JW women showed up at a friends shop a number of years ago spouting off something incorrectly, and my friend told them they were mistaken and had it wrong...they got indignant about what he told them it really was......then he pulled his Bible out and showed them word for word it was EXACTLY as he said....because while you would never guess it to meet him....he had it memorized word for word, cover to cover. They couldn't leave fast enough. I was there and saw it happen.

Jehovah Witnesses only accept the 'Blood of Christ'. Those who don't believe in the 'Blood of Christ' seek salvation from a foreign source. "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day;" (John 6:54)

"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25)

Salvation is not forced on anyone. Everyone has been given the gift of 'free will' and what they choose is their own choice. The door is open, for those who want to come in and for those who wish to leave, can leave.

Ok smoothy I can appreciate where you are coming from about religion. My upbringing was as a Catholic. I was always a spiritual person or at least thought so. Then I overheard someone asking another person for a Bible Study. I said I would be interested in getting some questions answered.

I noticed that we as catholics would say the same prayers over and over and not even understand what we were saying. It was more like chanting. You know the Lord's Prayer that Catholics recite at every church meeting. But I soon realized that the teachings of Jesus Christ were in a 180 opposite heading to the Catholic church.

For instance, Jesus stated, "When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.  So do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need even before you ask him." (Matthew 6:7-8)

So I asked myself, do I obey Christ or do I obey my church who taught the opposite by saying the same things over and over again? Look up (Matthew 6:7-8).

If you obey the God that you understand then what do you need a bible for?

The Bible gives us instructions and God reveals himself through his Word. We can learn Bible Principles and try to apply them to our lives. A Bible Principle is a statement of truth that does not change with the passing of time or circumstance.

The truth is the truth. Our understanding of the truth is revealed progressively. A Bible can also give us directions much like a GPS. Many Archaeologists are atheists, yet, they have no quarrel in using the Bible to find remnants of lost cities and treasure.

Reading and researching the Bible can give us something that we can't buy. Peace of mind.

Here's an example of a Bible Principle. "The one who loves discipline loves knowledge, But the one who hates reproof is unreasoning.  The good person obtains Jehovah’s approval, But He condemns the man of wicked schemes.  No man is made secure by wickedness, But the righteous will never be uprooted." (Proverbs 12:1-3)

If you read, think, and meditate about these things, do you not receive a measure of calmness? Have you ever heard what goes around comes around? That statement comes the scriptures I shared with you. The Bible is full of treasures...

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Reading and researching the Bible can give us something that we can't buy. Peace of mind.

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Now that's cool, and I can respect that. Whether or not you can respect my way of achieving peace of mind is cool too.

Nobody knows how to pronounce His covenant name in the Old Testament ("Jehovah" is way wrong because Hebrew didn't have a "J" or "V" sound). But since we're on the afterward side of the New Testament, I just call Him "Daddy."