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Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Not true : they admit they do not know precisely where and how that first life form arose. But there is more and more OSE'd information on self replicating molecules, hinting at the direction science has to look for research WITHOUT having to assume "creating" deities for which there is no OSE at all!!
No amount of speculating can get around the fact that intelligence does not come from unintelligent nonliving matter.
No amount of speculating can get around the fact that complex systems don't just make themselves by accident.
Speculation of that nature is speculating against the evidence and has a very apt name. It is called blind faith. If you believe that complex systems simply make themselves from unintelligent inanimate matter, you simply have blind faith in your speculations. But you have no facts to back it up.
It takes intelligence at the level of a human being to write "get me a donut". And that is a simple message. The messages in the gene code of the simplest organism is millions of times more comples than that. Therefore it would take an intelligence millions of times more intelligent than a human being to create it.
And simple organisms are millions of times less complex than complex organisms. So the intelligence required to create them increases proportionally.
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First of all : first life did not had to have the same genetic coding as our current one.
Do you have evidence for this statement or are you making a statement of faith?
Also, how does a different genetic coding make the case that God did not create that one also? After all, both of them would carry messages and both require intelligence.
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It most has probably evolved into that system.
Probably? Do you have the probability quantified? Is it 90% probability or 80% or 1%?
On what are you basing this probability? How many experiments have you conducted or has anyone conducted and how were the results quantified?
Or is this another faith statement? You believe it "probably" evolved into that system.
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WE DO NOT PRECISELY KNOW !!!
What does the word "precisely" mean to you? To me it means that you're close to an answer. You've got several possibilities but you just need to tweak it.
However that belies the fact that you don't know at all. Even intelligent human scientists have tried to make life from inanimate matter and they haven't succeeded.
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But that is no reason to assume "creating" deities for which there is no OSE at all!!
It's the other way around. The evidence points to an intelligent Creator. There is no reason to assume that unintelligent inanimate objects suddenly decided to make complex intelligent gene codes.
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Where is the OSE for your alternative proposal?
Where's the OSE that unintelligent inanimate matter can spontaneously create life.
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Where is OSE for the existence on an always existing supra-natural deity that "created" the universe and life all within 6 days ?
Thanks for asking. We can see by the evidence that inanimate unintelligent matter can't create life without a Creator.
And guess what, there is a Corporation which has existed for 2000 years which has catalogued the life of a man who said He is God. And this man proved that He is God by His miracles. These miracles were witnessed by His contemporaries who were convinced by them so much so that many of them went to their death proclaiming His Divinity.
This Corporation has kept the records of His Teachings and of the teachings of the Prophets before Him. He verified that these teachings are true and they confirm that God created life.
So we have evidence from the science sphere, evidence from regular life and evidence from the religious sphere converging and confirming each other.
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At least within science you are allowed to question anything. In religion every basic query is killed in dogmatic refusal.
No, no. The first universities and places of learning were all religious institutions. But that is besides the point. We are discussing evolution.
But we can point to the evidence which leads to the very reasonable conclusion that God exists.
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Does not look so from your spelling.
Doesn't that argue our case. If intelligence does not come from evolution then from whom does it come? We believe it comes from God who guided evolution. You believe it was generated spontaneously from unintelligent matter.
Which is more reasonable?
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Who stated that? I did not. There are a lot of intelligent Christians who can think along scientific lines. Creationists either do not seem to understand - or do not want to understand - science and the scientific process of research. They sure misuse science for trying to prove the unprovable. In vain, of course !
No. Its more like you don't understand Christian thought. Christians have proven the existence of God to themselves. But we understand that all we can do is provide the same evidence that led us to believe in God to others and see if they don't start seeing the same thing we see.
You keep calling for proof, but you have no proof for what you believe. Its been proven over and over in these discussions that you simply have a particular world view and faith in its teachings. But you have no proof that God doesn't exist.
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Yes indeed. And proven (OSE) to be the correct line of the development of all life on earth.
And if it has been proven then that is more evidence that God guided evolution.
Lets summarize.
1. Evolution can't get to first base without God because life can't spontaneously generate from inanimate uintelligent matter.
2. Evolution can't get to second base for virtually the same reason. The so called simple life forms did not get together and say, "hey, I'm tired of self replicating. Lets make ourselves male and female. It'll be lots more fun."
If there were no intelligent intervention, we would be self replicating today. There is absolutely no chance that self replicating life forms would suddenly need to mate unless an intelligent Creator guided the process.
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This is NOT a question board but a discussion board, and my reactions are PRECISELY on topic : they all refer to the posed header that incorrectly states that the theory of evolution proves the existence of God. It does not ! Nothing proves (OSE) the existence of God. God's existence has never been proved (OSE) and I have - from the lack of 2000 years of any evidence into that direction - to assume that that will never been proved. Specially as it is based on dogmatic BELIEF ONLY
So far we've provided more evidence and logic than you. All you've added to this conversation is denial.
Sincerely,
De Maria
